35 Whelen case necks splitting??

[Bull Nutria]

I have a 35W TC Encore on 2nd reload about 20% of the case necks have minor vertical splits from the shoulder up. Most splits are almost unnoticeable but a few are obvious. I re-inspected the batch of 40 and found 7 cases that I discarded. I am loading 56g of IMR4064 in REM brass with CCI LR primer. I have had one reload that when fired the case neck stayed in the chamber when the case was ejected. I could not chamber a fresh round! Luckily this happened at the range not when I needed a quick follow up shot. When I got back to the shop the case neck fell out of the chamber!

I have been reloading for over 40 years and have only seen a few bottled neck cases split like these. The 7mm08, 30.06 and 223 cases don't exhibit this much splitting in my experience. of course splitting is quit common in many times fired 38sp and 44mag brass.

Is this normal for 35 Whelen brass?

Should I be neck sizing only to help my brass longevity?

any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Bull

 

[LoonWulf]

I have a 35W TC Encore on 2nd reload about 20% of the case necks have minor vertical splits from the shoulder up. Most splits are almost unnoticeable but a few are obvious. I re-inspected the batch of 40 and found 7 cases that I discarded. I am loading 56g of IMR4064 in REM brass with CCI LR primer. I have had one reload that when fired the case neck stayed in the chamber when the case was ejected. I could not chamber a fresh round! Luckily this happened at the range not when I needed a quick follow up shot. When I got back to the shop the case neck fell out of the chamber!

I have been reloading for over 40 years and have only seen a few bottled neck cases split like these. The 7mm08, 30.06 and 223 cases don't exhibit this much splitting in my experience. of course splitting is quit common in many times fired 38sp and 44mag brass.

Is this normal for 35 Whelen brass?

Should I be neck sizing only to help my brass longevity?

any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Bull

I would only size enough for the action to close without binding, but that's my MO.
You may just have a hard batch of brass. I've got 100nosler cases in .30-06 that will split on the second or third firing unless annealed. They harden back up pretty quick to so I'll probably just recycle them.

 

[adcoch1]

Annealing is your friend, especially if you are making your brass from 30-06 or 270. There are hard batches of brass too, as loonwulf pointed out, but normally you should be able to get more than one or two loads out of the brass. For your specific rifle, it may help to only neck size if your chamber is a little oversized compared to your dies.

 

[243winxb]

Seen it mostly in 223/5.56. Causes -
1. Bad brass.
2. Fl die over working the brass neck area. My guess as the number 1 cause. Is the expander hard to remove when FL sizing and the inside of neck is lubed?
3.Cleaning brass with a liquid chemical. Vinegar or product containing any type of ethanol.

vertical splits from the shoulder up.

From shoulder towards case mouth? Think of a donut forming. Then the expander ripping through the shoulder neck area. See #2 above.

 

[Bull Nutria]

Well thanks for the replies. Regarding 243winxb's photos the brass on only one case split like shown in figure 2. The splits are running longitudinal with the case! in other words they look like hairline cracks running from the bottom of bell in case neck toward the mouth of the case. none go the entire length, some half way most are just an 1/8 inch long and barely visible. I have another 30 cases in same batch with no signs of splits. I think these may have been resized twice at most.

I have 35- 1x fired cases that I will use in the future. I will neck size only. I tried to chamber some of them and they all chambered fully of course they have not been neck sized.

Appreciate the info!!

Bull

 

[243winxb]

hairline cracks running from the bottom of bell in case neck toward the mouth of the case. most are just an 1/8 inch long and barely visible .

Yes, had them.. loaded 100 PMC once fire 223 brass. Over 80% had the barely visible crack on firing.

The expander was hard to pull through the necks when reloading them.

I did 2 things. Ordered a new RCBS die set, in case i screwed up what i was about to do. Then honed out the neck on the old RCBS die set. Seems to have helped.

Time will tell.

 

[Bull Nutria]

well I am using Lee FL sizer die. I do use a very small amount of lube in side the case mouth and it is moderately hard to run the expander ball thru the case neck when full length resizing.

If I neck size only with my full length sizer, how do I deprime the case? Do I need a universal deprimer die??

Bull

 

[243winxb]

I still use this home made decapper from 40+ years ago when i was using the Lee hammer loader. Sorry, no help there.

Neck sizing with a Full Length sizing die may or may not work/help. The case body should have a lot of taper, like a 303 British.

 

[Bull Nutria]

I have a Lee whackamole ! I will digg it out and see if It will work? I have 2- a 20 ga and a 45-70 . Thanks
243 winxb. You remind me of RC Model--
THAT IS A BIG COMPLIMENT!
BULL

 

[Patocazador]

By any chance are these shells formed from .30-06 shells? I form most of mine that way because it's lots cheaper but that step up from .30 to .35 can stretch and weaken the necks.

 

[Bull Nutria]

no these are REM 35 whelen headstamped cases.
Bull

 

[GooseGestapo]

It’s the brass.
Anneal it. Easy!

I use eye on gas stove. Hold ‘06 size case by base, neck of brass at tip of flame, while rolling/turning neck in flame count to seven, dip case neck in cup of water, then drop case into a container, proceed to next case.

For such as a .223 or .22Hornet, I use a Lee case trimmer shell holder chucked in a cordless drill and turn the case slowly holding the case neck to tip of flame. After quenching the case, remove from the holder and proceed to next case.

I’ve experienced the same neck splitting with ‘06 reformed to .338/06 and 6mm/7mm/8mmx57 reformed to .257Roberts. Annealing every 5rds or so will make cases last 20 firings or more.

I developed my technique from an article I read back in early ‘70’s by Jack O’Conner on loading/shooting the .222Remington. He stated he was able to exceed 100firings with neck sized only .222 and mid level loads he used for shooting jack rabbits in Arizona.

 

[Slamfire]

I recommend you anneal your 35 Whelen cases. I had many, early, cracked case necks from my first batch of necked up 30-06 cases. To fix that, I tried annealing. I over annealed the first batch of 30-06 cases by heating the case necks till they were cherry red. That resulted in bullets that fell out of loaded rounds. Case necks were so soft I could pull the bullet out of a loaded round with my fingers. Live and learn. I did my annealing in the inky shadows of the garage, at night. I held a case in the right hand, blow torch in the left, and aimed the flame at the neck juncture. The best annealing technique I developed was to twirl the case, in the flame, count to the first sign of orange/red , which was about the count of four. I decided to keep the case necks below the orange/red color appearance. So, count to four, rotating the case, pull out after four. Wait a few seconds to cool, stick the case back in the flame, rotate, and pull out before any color appeared. At some point the case is too hot to hold, so drop it in a pan of water.



This has worked well, case necks hold the bullet tight, and yet, no case neck cracking. Since the case body is not heated up beyond my pain level, I am not annealing the case head, which would be positively dangerous. Brass does not heat treat like steel. Steel is quenched to fix the cell structure and retain hardness. Quenching brass does nothing for hardness. I am dropping cases in a pan of water because the necks will burn, and the case body is hot. I do recommend knocking the primers out, if you leave the primer in, some cases will form an air pocket and not cool consistently.

This is a good thread with pictures on annealing:

When to anneal your brass?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/when-to-anneal-your-brass.833053/

 

[old heeler]

no these are REM 35 whelen headstamped cases.
Bull

I'm shooting 35 Whelen AI and using Rem 35 Whelen brass and they fire form pretty nice. All the cases are new and some have 5/6 firing mostly just neck sizing. Redding makes 35 Whelen neck die. I do lube inside neck pretty good as you know pretty long neck.

 

[Bull Nutria]

How normal is it for once fired Rem factory 35 Whelen brass to split and crack on first reload? most of the cracks are minor but good inspection noticed them!!
I am using 56g of IMR 4064 and a 200g FTX bullet in a TC Encore.

I will have to start annealing my once fired brass as 35 Whelen brass is not very common in these parts.

Bull

 

[old heeler]

How normal is it for once fired Rem factory 35 Whelen brass to split and crack on first reload? most of the cracks are minor but good inspection noticed them!!
I am using 56g of IMR 4064 and a 200g FTX bullet in a TC Encore.

I will have to start annealing my once fired brass as 35 Whelen brass is not very common in these parts.

Bull

I really don't know. I read your first post and I assumed since you didn't mention factory ammo you where shooting new brass so my comment where for that. I won't of posted had I'd known you shot factory. Norma and Nosler making 35 Whelen brass and Midway has Hornady 35 Whelen
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100993329/hornady-reloading-brass-35-whelen-box-of-50

 

[Bull Nutria]

Thanks for the info Old Heeler, but I have over 50 once fired Rem 35 Whelen brass that I scrounged. I may anneal it before I resize to make it last longer. it would hurt my feeling to have to buy new brass at 76 cents a case!!

Bull

 

[Stew0576]

Think i saw some of those cases at the gun shop today, i will look again my next visit

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Expanding the neck definitely works the brass and contributes to work hardening. Try annealing. I use a fondue candle and Tempilaq 450 from Brownells. Put a dab of Tempilaq on the neck and rotate the neck in the tip of the candle flame until the Tempilaq color changes. Hold the case in your fingers near the head and you'll quickly get a feel for the correct temperature, and after that you can use the Tempilaq on every 5th case or so, just to keep yourself honest. Drop the annealed cases on a damp towel and let them cool naturally.