How Many Use This Method to Zero a Rifle?

[Bart B.]

Because I don't use a good rest and I want to make sure I didn't pull a shot.

Keep your aiming eye open while the firing pin falls until the rifle quits moving in recoil. Note where the sight was relative to the target when the round fires. If the sight's moving away from the target when the round fires, you pulled the shot. You'll know one way or the other in a split second.

If you don't know where the sight was when the round fired, load another then try again. And again. Until its second nature and you don't have to think about it.

 

[ford8nr]

Not me.
I still count the clicks. Can't be trying to hold a rifle still and cranking the knobs when doing adjustments during a match.
Wind shift ? 2" right at 200yds ? 4 clicks on a 1/4 click scope, 8 clicks on a 1/8 click scope
Really NOT that hard !

 

[hps1]

Not me.
I still count the clicks. Can't be trying to hold a rifle still and cranking the knobs when doing adjustments during a match.
Wind shift ? 2" right at 200yds ? 4 clicks on a 1/4 click scope, 8 clicks on a 1/8 click scope
Really NOT that hard !

I understand. Match shooting and zeroing rifle are two different things, though. Talking about zeroing a hunting rifle here. To further complicate things, many hunting scope knobs have no clicks; most if not all target scopes do.

Regards,
hps

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have used the OP#1 method over the years. Last time to zero a .22 rifle with an old Weaver D4 'scope:
(a) with friction adjustments not clicks,
(b) with the scope rotated in the mounts to put the crosshairs in an X with the adjust knobs down low profile 7:30 and 4:30, and
(c) with no memory what the value for the adjustment marks were.
Like the OP, I fired a group on an a close target and sandbagged the gun with crosshairs on the aiming point. I then looked through the 'scope and adjusted the crosshairs to cover the bullet group on the target. Did final adjust on a 25 yd target, then set up clay pigeons on the 65 yard backstop berm and busted a row to be sure of zero.
I also use this method for a 'scope sidemounted on a Carcano with the scope rotated so the UP-DN turret is the horizontal and the L-R is the vertical. That's so the bolt handle and clip load can clear the 'scope. (When I think of the reversed vertical and horizontal controls, I hear the theme to "The Outer Limits".)

The upper range at the gun club has concrete benches and I have four sand bags in my kit, so locking the gun immobile for adjustment is easy.
As a former hunter and now mostly plinker, I zero at a known distance on a windless day. Rather than adjust sights after zeroing them, I use Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation like my ancesters. My BP rifles are zeroed at 100yds bullseye, I memorize sight picture for 100m, 150m, 200m silhouettes, and I try to "read" the grass on the range and hold for wind or wait til it stops.)

 

[Bart B.]

On receivers that appear to have scope base holes misaligned, has anyone ever checked the alignment of the barrel tenon thread axis to the bolt way axis?

Or the mounted scope axis to the bolt way axis?

 

[ford8nr]

Match shooting and zeroing rifle are two different things, though.

Not really.
Rifle shoots to a different POI vs POA.
Scope needs adjustment.

I work a deer hunter sight in clinic every year. there is almost no way to give sight adjustments to the shooters without counting clicks.

In all my scopes, hunting and target I can't think of any without clicks. Some very minor but all click. Even without clicks there should be lines .

To each their own, that's what makes life interesting .

 

[jmorris]

Not me.
I still count the clicks. Can't be trying to hold a rifle still and cranking the knobs when doing adjustments during a match.
Wind shift ? 2" right at 200yds ? 4 clicks on a 1/4 click scope, 8 clicks on a 1/8 click scope
Really NOT that hard !

Ok, you plop your rest down on something, set the rifle in it and fire a shot that hits the paper high and right of where you had aimed. To use "clicks" now you need to know the exact distance and how far above and to the right the impact was from the aim point. With the other method you just move the crosshairs over the hole you just made.

Using your method let's say you were 3 7/8" high and 4 7/16 right and you were 66 yards from the target, how many clicks would we use?

Now the other method seems pretty simple.

 

[ford8nr]

Not really

At 66 yards your clicks are 2/3 value (66/100)
Assuming a 1/4" per click, 4 = 1" value at 100 that'd give you a 6 = 1" at 66

Let's call it 4" high, that's 16 clicks at 100. At 2/3 value it's 24 at 66yds
Let's call it 4-1/2 right, 18 at 100 would be 27 at 66yds

 

[ford8nr]

Whatever gets it done for you is great

I can just dial a gun in faster using the math and click method.

 

[Llama Bob]

If one shoots a few-shot group from a benched rifle and it's not centered on point of aim, if you trust your sight graduations to be correct, can't you just make the adjustment then pack up and leave? Won't your rifle and ammo shoot with the same accuracy the next time? If you need to shoot another group, you aren't trusting something in the system.

Sure, but there's plenty of non-trustworthy equipment out there. Shooting the 2nd group is how you verify (at least in part) that it's trustworthy.

 

[Jim Watson]

On receivers that appear to have scope base holes misaligned, has anyone ever checked the alignment of the barrel tenon thread axis to the bolt way axis?

Or the mounted scope axis to the bolt way axis?

I did not have the equipment or the contacts to check alignment, but I had a pretty little Remington 700 BDL .222 that definitely had SOMETHING out of line. Could barely get it on target.

 

[Newtosavage]

Pretty much what I do, but I adjust one shot at a time. Sure saves ammo! I remember reading about this method in one of the outdoor magazines back in the early 90's and have been using it ever since. I've seen people go through a box of ammo just trying to sight in their rifle. Darn shame really.

 

[Bart B.]

Sure, but there's plenty of non-trustworthy equipment out there

Agree. Checking out two Nightforce variables for range focus accuracy, set their 200 yard mark at the index then checked for parallax errors and range that had zero. Used a 10X monocular to look into the eyepiece to magnify the reticle-target image ten times to see tiny changes in parallax and range focus.

One was focused (parallax free) at 90 yards and the other at 350, as I remember. Proof to me their front objective lenses' focal lengths were different and neither ones focus curves matched the mechanical curve of the front lens barrel's lens movement.

 

[hps1]

(b) with the scope rotated in the mounts to put the crosshairs in an X with the adjust knobs down low profile 7:30 and 4:30, and
(c) with no memory what the value for the adjustment marks were.

Exactly, Carl! I failed to mention that situation, but have used method advantageously with similar co-axially mounted red dot that had to be rotated to clear primary optical on AR. Those situations can get quite 'squirrely' if attempting to count clicks (if present).

Regards,
hps

 

[hps1]

(1)In all my scopes, hunting and target I can't think of any without clicks. Some very minor but all click. Even without clicks there should be lines .

(2)To each their own, that's what makes life interesting .

(1) Guess I'm showing my age, but lots of older scopes did not have clicks; lines, yes, clicks no and most either did not have value of lines indicated in caps.

(2) Absolutely!

Regards,
hps

 

[Jim Watson]

Proof to me their front objective lenses' focal lengths were different and neither ones focus curves matched the mechanical curve of the front lens barrel's lens movement.

I have not owned an AO scope whose graduations were even close. I recall one that was parallax free at 100 yards when set on 77. Side focus scopes are worse, at least mine are.

 

[hps1]

Not really

At 66 yards your clicks are 2/3 value (66/100)
Assuming a 1/4" per click, 4 = 1" value at 100 that'd give you a 6 = 1" at 66

Let's call it 4" high, that's 16 clicks at 100. At 2/3 value it's 24 at 66yds
Let's call it 4-1/2 right, 18 at 100 would be 27 at 66yds

You aren't a math teacher by any chance, are you? Math never was my favorite subject But, seriously, you are correct; whatever works for you.....always more than one way to skin a cat and yours works well.
Someone pointed out the lack of grid on target to determine actual distance POI is from POA is also another argument for the down & dirty method, though.

Regards,
hps

 

[Newtosavage]

(1) Guess I'm showing my age, but lots of older scopes did not have clicks; lines, yes, clicks no and most either did not have value of lines indicated in caps.

(2) Absolutely!

Regards,
hps

I still have a couple scopes that are friction and not click adjustments and I still use this same method. In fact, for those scopes, it works better.

 

[Bart B.]

Someone pointed out the lack of grid on target to determine actual distance POI is from POA is also another argument for the down & dirty method, though.

I've yet to see any target grid laid out in trigonometric minutes of angle. Folks using MOA clicked scopes can use 100 yard targets with 1" grid at 95.4929672018 yards from the scope's front objective lens so the grid lines are close to true MOA spacing.

Nor are any laid out with MIL grid that I know of. Figure out what range a 100 yard inch target needs to be at to use precisely.

 

[Bart B.]

You aren't a math teacher by any chance, are you?

I think ford8nr remembered his grade school ratio and proportion math lessons. 99.99% of us had them.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Do they make scopes marked in MOA (minute of angle)? (Must be a pure targetshooter thing.)
Most hunting scopes I've seen recently have markings like one click = 1/4" at 100yds.
I believe my son has a scope marked in mils (or fractions thereof).
I suspect the marks on my D4 are 1" at 100yds because they seem to be 1/4" at 25yds.

 

[hps1]

I think ford8nr remembered his grade school ratio and proportion math lessons. 99.99% of us had them.

Yep, I had 'em, but @ 81 YOA don't remember 'em.

Regards,
hm

 

[hps1]

Not really.
Rifle shoots to a different POI vs POA.
Scope needs adjustment.

Missed this earlier. Yes, different POI from POA scope (or hold, as in KY windage depending upon the situation) do need adjusting, but, other than benchrest match, all the matches I've ever shot have specified 'no artificial rest' as well as the limited time as specified in rules, making this method of "zeroing a rifle" impractical in a match, due to the absence of rests or sandbags (Oops, never shot an F class, so that would be another possibility, as well). Thus my claim that zeroing hunting rifles and matches are different.


Regards,
hps

 

[hps1]

Do they make scopes marked in MOA (minute of angle)?

Yes, they do.

Regards,
hps

 

[Bart B.]

Thus my claim that zeroing hunting rifles and matches are different.

I don't think so.

Took an unfired 7.62 Garand to a rifle match. A Remington shotgun was to be awarded to the winner.

Two sighters were allowed only at 200 yards slow fire standing. Used both to get a zero for the issued ammo. Shot 200 sitting and 300 rapid fire the 600 yards slow fire without sighters

Won the match.

I don't understand why rifle types would be different. Please enlighten me.