How Many Use This Method to Zero a Rifle?

[olkowsr]

To OP original point, yes it will work, but that's only step 1...

Step 2 is to shoot another group in a fresh spot of paper to confirm.

Step 3 is adjust only if you need to "interpreate this anyway you want".


For my 22lrs a $40 harbor freight vise works best on the stock granted you use a towel to cover the vise teeth.
- doesn't always need to be fancy to work, IMO


My thoughts on the subject.

 

[Jim Watson]

I've yet to see any target grid laid out in trigonometric minutes of angle.

Me either. Wasn't there a recent thread on the difference between a minute of angle vs inch per hundred yards? MOA is 1.047... IPHY so you are off by nearly half an inch at 1000 yards. Is there a rifle or scope that can resolve that? If so, I am worse out of date than I realized.

Not to mention of the difference between chord and arc when figuring in milliradians.

 

[Bart B.]

At 100 yards........

There are lots of scopes that resolve a few seconds of arc (1/20th MOA).

There are rifles that'll shoot inside 1/3 MOA for several few-shot groups.

 

[hps1]

To OP original point, yes it will work, but that's only step 1...

Step 2 is to shoot another group in a fresh spot of paper to confirm.

Step 3 is adjust only if you need to "interpreate this anyway you want".

For my 22lrs a $40 harbor freight vise works best on the stock granted you use a towel to cover the vise teeth.
- doesn't always need to be fancy to work, IMO
My thoughts on the subject.

Absolutely! OP:

Fire a three shot group, then making sure your rifle does not move on the bags, align the crosshairs at aim point used to fire the group. Holding steady, adjust crosshair to center of the group. YOU'RE DONE! It is a good idea to fire a shot or three to make sure scope moved as expected and holds the new adjustment.

I did fail to mention: Also to make sure your rifle did not move on the bags while scope was being adjusted.

Regards,
hps

 

[hps1]

I don't think so.

Took an unfired 7.62 Garand to a rifle match. A Remington shotgun was to be awarded to the winner.

(1)Two sighters were allowed only at 200 yards slow fire standing. Used both to get a zero for the issued ammo. Shot 200 sitting and 300 rapid fire the 600 yards slow fire without sighters

Won the match.

(2) I don't understand why rifle types would be different. Please enlighten me.

OK, here we go.
First off, for the benefit of those who have not competed in service rifle matches, (1) Two sighters are often allowed before the first stage of the match in various rules in service rifle matches, in fact some allow two sighters at each stage (200,300 & 600 yds.), some do not allow ANY sighters at all. I will not attempt to speak for all competitors, but, when sighters were allowed, I made it a practice to take my sighters in the particular position which I was about to shoot as specified in the rules for that particular match. In the case above, I'm reasonably certain that the first stage was 200 yard offhand, as is the common sequence and that's exactly what I would have done. I would have then used my normal recorded "comeups" (w/possible "fudge factor" for any current special atmospheric conditions as the match progressed) for the next stage, and so on. During team matches, the coach is coaching two shooters and, during rapid fire strings, the coach will say, something to the effect of "shooter 1 take a little black, or favor right or left" and the shooter indicated will use KY windage, as there is no time for sight corrections. I'm sure I've overlooked something here, but you get the idea. My point was, No sandbags allowed or deployed, during the matches thus the difference between "match shooting" and "sighting in a hunting rifle".

Secondly, (2), perhaps

Match shooting and zeroing rifle are two different things, though.

was not clear enough, or the

Talking about zeroing a hunting rifle here.

was confusing, so let me explain.

It was my intention to point out that there is a difference in the procedure used to sight in a rifle in preparation for hunting with it, and sighting in a rifle in preparation to shoot a match, usually provided for in the rules of the match. Did not mean to infer that there was any difference connected with the type of rifle being sighted in.
Hope this clears up any confusion which might have been caused by my choice of words in my previous post:

I understand. Match shooting and zeroing rifle are two different things, though. Talking about zeroing a hunting rifle here. To further complicate things, many hunting scope knobs have no clicks; most if not all target scopes do.

Regards,
hps

 

[hdwhit]

hps1 wrote:
Always amazed every year before deer season how many folks show up at the range and don't have a clue as to how to zero their rifles. Even more amazing at those that buy a rifle and go hunting with it. When asked if they checked the zero, the stock reply is, "Nah, the gunsmith boresighted it."

Probably one of the reasons why, in my experience, more cases of beer get "killed" at the deer camp than deer.

 

[hps1]

Probably one of the reasons why, in my experience, more cases of beer get "killed" at the deer camp than deer.

That, too.
About 50-55 years ago, I stopped in a small service station in Roma, Tx. for gas during deer season. For those who are unfamiliar w/that area of S. Tx., Roma is a very small town (only 10,200 pop. today) located right on the Rio Grande River. It has the only bridge to Mexico for probably 40 miles in either direction.
When I went in to pay for my gas, I was surprised to see probably 40 guns and gun cases lined up in a corner and stretching across the two adjoining walls. Asked the owner if he was a gun dealer and he laughed and said, "No, just guns left by hunters who went across the river and had to park their firearms for a while."

Can't help but wonder how many stumbled on a whiskey bone while in Mexico and forgot where they left their guns over the years.

Regards,
hps

 

[Bart B.]

Nobody takes the bench, the one used sighting in their rifle with, afield. Most folks have a different zero in field positions than what's needed for a benched rifle.

 

[mountian girl]

a plastic milk crate works good,,,saws-all to fit yo rifle,,,pad it PAD IT GOOD",,put in rifle,,tie bow serving thread to trigger,,,,attach crate to good size board so u can nail it down,,,or screws,,set on tv dinner tray table,,,,,strap rifle down wif bungie cords,,,no scratch,,,me & jd make ground hog archie targets,,,3" 3/8 steel round,,,,we welded boats to tha plate,,& bot them on,,,mount wif 2 spring loaded screen door hinges,, to a good boardwhen u hit tha steel,,it will pop back up,,,,,works for us,,,target white,,,steel red,,,,cool huh,,????,,,hahaha,,it works

 

[jmorris]

I don't understand why rifle types would be different. Please enlighten me.

Different uses, if I shoot matches that have non threat targets, for instance, non threats are almost always below or to either side, almost never above,same with hard cover. So it is better to sight in "high".

For a hunting rifle where I don't want to have to know exact range rather a maximum point blank range for a given round to stay inside, say a 3" radius out to a given distance. So there will be some range where it will shoot "zero" but that's less important than it be inside 6" from the muzzle out to "XXX" yards.

 

[ford8nr]

I think ford8nr remembered his grade school ratio and proportion math lessons. 99.99% of us had them.

You are correct. I work in the skilled trades so my basic math and geometry gets a continual work out

 

[MisterNoisy]

I just fire three shots holding on center to establish a group at 50 yards after boresighting. At that point, it's just math (inches away from center doubled, plus/minus any bullet rise/drop for your intended zero and then compensated for based on the MOA click value of your scope) to figure out what adjustments need to be made. Usually, I don't need to make any other changes.

 

[denton]

First step is to figure out how far above/below the crosshairs your bullet should be at 25 yards. With a walnut and blue gun, it's common for POA to equal POI at that range. For many AR15s, the bullet needs to be about 2" below the crosshairs.

If it's a bolt action, carefully bore sight on a bright target at 100 yards if you can. I can usually get it within 4" at 100 that way.

Second step is to shoot one and only one shot at 25 yards. Aim the gun at the bulls eye, lock the gun in place, and move the crosshairs so that they are positioned correctly with respect to the bullet hole. That may be "dead on" or 2" high or something else, depending on your scope to bore distance.

If you have done everything right, your rifle is sighted close enough to be easily on paper at 100 yards.

Move your target to 100 yards. Shoot 3-5 rounds. Aim the rifle at the bulls eye, lock it down, and move the crosshairs so they are correctly positioned with respect to the group center. This means you'll have to figure out your trajectory, because some rifles want the crosshairs 1 3/4" below the group (for a 200 yard sight) and some want the crosshairs right on.

Your rifle is now sighted in. You may want to take a few test shots, just to make sure, and possibly fine tune the scope by counting clicks.

Why do you shoot 3-5 rounds? Because normal random variation prevents the bullets from all going through the same hole. The center of the group is a more precise indicator of where the true POI is than any one bullet is. If being off half an inch at 100 yards doesn't bother you, then don't bother shooting so many rounds.

What you definitely should NOT do is shoot, adjust, shoot again, adjust again, shoot yet again, etc. You will end up chasing the normal random variation of the rifle all over the target, unless you are very lucky.

As an RO, I often see shooters at the range on the Friday before opening day, with no idea how to sight in their new rifle. You can spot those people, because they are sweaty and have burned up most of their ammo. Mostly, they are thankful for a little help. Can't count the number of rifles I have gladly sighted in for such people.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I set a target at 50 yards. Align the crosshairs on the bull, then look through the bore. Where the center of the bore is pointing is where the bullet would impact if I fired. I then adjust the scope until both the cross hairs and bore are in the same spot. I then fire one shot. It will usually be within 2" of point of aim.

I adjust the scope and then fire shot #2 shot at 100 yards. Once again it will be within 2" of POA. I make another adjustment and shot #3 is always where I want it to be. Then, and only then do I start shooting groups. Sometimes I may find that I need to fine tune things a bit after I start shooting groups, but not often. Takes 5 minutes and 3 shots.

That's the method I use.

I don't see how I could hold a rifle in the same position for 3 shots. How's that work with a 300 mag?

 

[Dr T]

I am aware of the method, but I know that I sometimes will pull a shot, and there is no way I can hold the rifle steady enough. I can't use it.

 

[jmorris]

I am all for mental exercise but the method I use is faster to perform than explain.

Makes testing and swapping out optics a snap, even if it's a little more precise using my eye vs looking at a cell phone screen...

 

[hps1]

I am all for mental exercise but the method I use is faster to preform than explain.

Makes testing and swapping out optics a snap, even if it's a little more precise using my eye vs looking at a cell phone screen...

Bingo!



Love your rest. Precise El. & Wind. adjustments, like adjusting a mortar! Details, please (make & model).
I plan to steal your video if you do not mind; lots easier than trying to explain in writing, as evidenced above.
Thank you, sir.

Regards,
hps

 

[jmorris]

The rest is a homemade contraption that I can use with a rear bag.



Or have take the recoil of the rifle by swapping the end cap.

 

[hps1]

Outstanding! Your first video answered any/all of the questions my OP stirred up! I'm off to Lowe's to pick up some materials. Thank you, sir!

Regards,
hps

 

[jmorris]

No problem and it doesn't need to be that complicated, pretty much anything that will support the rifle so it won't move while you are adjusting the turrets will do.

An old tripod and some atv mounts.

A bipod and bag, wood cut to the right shape.

What took me so long to post a video of it was making a decent way to connect my cell phone to the optic.

 

[Jim Watson]

I remember a short American Rifleman piece on the British "five point rest."
Just a wooden ammo crate with a V notch in each end and with a block of wood located next to one notch to keep the gun from twisting in the Vs.

 

[jmorris]

Yep, the only limit to coming up with something that will do the job is your imagination.

 

[hps1]

No problem and it doesn't need to be that complicated, pretty much anything that will support the rifle so it won't move while you are adjusting the turrets will do.

Yes, it will, but I like your rest and need a shop project at the moment anyway. By the way, that is a very nice Rem. 510 in your last picture. That was my first rifle, given to me in 1945 @ age 9. Excellent little guns, grandkids have it today.
Thanks again.

Regards,
hm

 

[Bart B.]

Why do you shoot 3-5 rounds? Because normal random variation prevents the bullets from all going through the same hole. The center of the group is a more precise indicator of where the true POI is than any one bullet is.

Has anyone shot five or more 3- to 5-shot groups then measured each group's center from the aiming point, then checked if all group centers were the same direction and distance from the aim point?

 

[hps1]

Has anyone shot five or more 3- to 5-shot groups then measured each group's center from the aiming point, then checked if all group centers were the same direction and distance from the aim point?

No, this is about as close to it as I have done, does this count? (10 shots @ 100 yds. on each target, x ring = .75", 10 ring = 1.75")



Or this?


Bet you can guess which shot was # 20! Just couldn't stand prosperity.

Regards,
hps