How much ammo would soldiers carry?

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I know I probably sound like a broken record, and I'll probably get flamed for this, but:

You cannot look at a realistic SHTF situation in the same way that you perceive and prepare for combat. They are just so different, and what works in one is going to get you killed in the other.

Rather than trying (and failing) to make some comprehensive list, let me just run a reasonable scenario. Lets say there is some big natural disaster near your hometown. The power is out, water is out, and people are starting to get pissed off. You decide you need to get out, but roads to your destination are impassable, or your car is broken. You have a small hunting cabin, lets say fifty miles away in a very rural area, and you have a goodly amount of supplies and gear there. Enough stuff to get you through the crisis.

The biggest difference between combat and SHTF is the mindset of the "opposition." Soldiers are trained, have an objective, are motivated to complete that objective, and have support. They are fighting. A miscreant in a SHTF situation is trying to survive. Any training he has is minimal (otherwise he would be prepared!), he has no real objectives, he has no support. In essence he is just trying to survive, using an opportunistic method.

To make a long story short, the opportunist isn't going to put his neck out too far when he tries to get you. As soon as he realizes you are a real threat to him he is going to back down.

Moving along, I think most people don't realize how heavy stuff gets after a day of hiking, especially when on minimal rations and sleeping on cold dirt. I think that everyone should take at least a day long hike (a real hike, not two miles in and out) with all of their kit, and see if they feel like they could do the same the next day.

I also read some of the comments on not needing food or clothing. I think that is a fatal blunder. Hypothermia kills you just as dead as a bullet through the heart. And provisions, again I must propose a test. Try doing a day of strenuous activity without water. Basically the brain turns to mush and your activity rate drops. Food isn't as severe, but miss a couple of meals and the pace drops radically.

Sorry if this seems a little disjointed, I will probably come back tomorrow and expand on some points when I am a bit less tired.

Back to the original question, if I were taking a semi-auto rifle with me, I would go as light as possible. Both in gun, magazine loadout, and ammo. For the gun I would equip one of those ultralight AR-15's, or a Mini-14 (gasp!). An M1 Carbine would be a fine choice too, as would a pistol caliber carbine. Take enough mags to have between 50 to 75 rounds of ammo, maybe more with a pistol caliber carbines. What I would do is pack a bit more loose ammunition in my pack. Yes, it isn't immediately accessable, but it saves weight (allowing more ammo to be carried overall).
 
I think most people don't realize how heavy stuff gets after a day of hiking, especially when on minimal rations and sleeping on cold dirt.

zinj,

Actually, that is why I started the thread. We have a lot of ex-military guys who have humped the heavy loads in adverse conditions. I was trying to draw on their experience. I've never been in the service.
 
Hmmm

No mules, but I have ponies (anybody want one?).

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Zinj, that's exactly my thoughts and exactly how I made my bug out bags. Self defense is part of bugout preparation, but not the entirety of it. I started with the very basics. Things like food, water, shelter, first aid. Then I filled in around those with a gun and ammo.

My choice ended up being 3 mags, one in the gun. And enough ammo for a few mag reloads. A day spent hiking with your pack is the best way to determine what works for you. I tried it and know it works for me. I'm not military and I'm certainly not an athlete, so I had to determine what was my most effective pack load. I will probably switch to the Kel-Tec SU-16 specifically for it's light weight and foldability (which I have other uses for anyway).

Prepositioning supplies along your bugout route makes a lot more sense than trying to carry everything on your back the entire way. So far, I have 2 bugout routes stocked and I rotate perishables about once a year. Having fuel caches makes sense too, in case you can bugout by vehicle. I also keep a similar bugout pack in my vehicle.

I actually had to "bug out" last summer for a few days. This is normally a dry desert area, but we had unusual flooding that was causing severe damage throughout the city. I live downhill from the river and it was spilling over it's banks in a big way. The only 2 roads into the city were impassible from flooding. I ended up heading out to the desert for a few days and living out of my trunk pack until the river receded. It was a good test of my preparations. I now have a few days worth of supplies cached in the desert in case a similar situation happens again.
 
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Just to make it fun, pretend it is the worst possible situation.

Okay. You have no firearms, and the zombies have eaten your legs.

Anyway, I used to have a packed Alice pack with a Ruger Single-Six in .22LR/.22Magnum and 500 rounds of standard .22, 50 heavy subsonic .22, and 50 rounds of .22 Magnum.

I usually carry 5 30 round mags on my IBA, and 2 on my weapon, here.

Vehicles change these equations, and why do people always imagine running?

John
 
I talked to 2 Army NG guys last week, and they carry 16 30 rders, and 1-2 SAW boxes, per guy.

This double+ combat load was typical for people who went outside the wire
in Iraq whether they were combat arms or simply driving truck.

If I remember right the combat load for a shotgun was 20 rds and I carried
50+. I had 8+ mags for my M9 as well. Any more than this while wearing IBA
and you get slowed down.
 
The few (mounted) patrols I went on with the ODA, they had cans full of loaded M16 mags in the vehicle...besides an ungodly amount of .50 and either 7.62 or 5.56 linked. :evil:
 
Bug-out with a family.

I'm a middle thirties guy with a late twenties wife and a toddler son. Bugging out will require me to hump the majority of the gear and my wife to care for our son. Living in a city (ugh. Wife and I are both farm raised and feel crummier by the day living here), life after a natural disaster/unrest/name your favorite Bad Thing would be unsupportable due to the natives getting restless. Bugout to the Ol' Homestead (my family actually did get the farm by Homestead Act!) is the order of the day.

We keep bottled water on hand and rotate the stock. It all goes in the trunk. There's always fresh veggies in the ice box. They go in the trunk. Hot dogs can be eaten raw, too (actually, they're pre-cooked) as well as whatever meat we have in the freezer. The kit in the trunk already contains a 500rd box of .22LR, 100rd box of .45acp and 40rds of .223. Every mag I can load goes with me. There's a first aid kit already in the trunk. Matches, lighter, candles and flashlights in the car, too.

If it's a natural disaster and I expect road closures due to obstruction, toss in the saw and gas. I like my dog, but she'd take a backseat to my family. If things weren't too hairy I'd come back for her. Five pair of undies and socks, three changes of clothes. No frilly stuff, even for the wife.

The reality of it is this: In a natural disaster, you'd be best going as far as you can by vehicle with everything you can pack. You might make it all the way to point B with everything but the kitchen sink. Going overland, especially for those of us with small children, will be a hard slog. If you make it a civil unrest scenario where people are going to take advantage of you due to anarchy, I'd be willing to trade my share of a few days food for more ammo to safeguard my family.

The bottom line is Beans, Bullets and Band-aids. Take as much as you can of these three things. Everything else is superfluous. My default would be 7 loaded mags for the AR with as many bandoliers stashed as I could fit/carry.
 
What soldiers do and what regular people trying to survive a bad situation do has surprisingly little overlap. People have survived, in droves, in all sorts of horrible situations with *gasp* no gun at all! Surely it is a useful tool, but not the only one or even the most important one. Unless we're spinning End o' the World fantasies here, you need enough gear and ammo to unass the Bad Place and get to The Place Where They Still Have Ice For The Cokes.
 
I know that I see a lot of military surplus "reloads" for the SKS that hold 200 rounds, on stripper clips, in a bandoleer or belt so I assume that was a basic reload for an SKS.
 
Right on RKH (post #34). :)

That was what I was thinking.

Personally, I cannot imagine a much worse situation that having to bug out on foot in the first place. Especially where you need to have all that much ammo in the first place. If that is the case take whatever you can carry, but it seems like an unrealistic scenario in the first place. The chances of this happenning seem extremely remote.

You can only carry so much stuff. If you carry 50 pounds of gun and ammo on you, there is very little else you are going to be able to bring.
 
Rkh- A 1000# heavy duty garden cart would serve better IMO. In a pinch the kids could ride. My younger gets pretty tired after after about 5 miles of walking.

You can pick one up for less than the cost of a good pack and pull ten times the amount of supplies you could carry and get less tired than the wheelbarrow. Then you could haul a whole case of ammo and have plenty of room left over for a month's worth of food.

Of course you can not run with either...
 
The bottom line is Beans, Bullets and Band-aids.

I love it!

1911 guy,
What kind of beans do you recommend?
I'm assuming not the canned beans.
 
Unless you are already out of town the likelihood of successfully reaching a bunker or cabin or even escaping town is extremely low.

Surviving natural disasters and civil unrest is a lot different than an invading force or a war. It is best to read some good disaster survival material and books, plan to shelter in place, make your house defensible and have equipment ready to evacuate if absolutely necessary such as your shelter being destroyed.

Think how full most roads are on a normal day, now add 10X the amount of traffic to them. In the Boise area there are 500,000 to 600,000 people, all major and minor roads (even the "back" roads that we think only we know about) would almost immediately be congested. Look at the Houston evacuation, people were running out of gas on the road because of traffic, now add muggers, looters, and whatever originally caused you to leave. A person with supplies in the open whether on foot or in a vehicle is a pretty big target for those who didn't think ahead.
 
Ya'll are 100% correct concerning MOST bug out situations. (If a little light on ammo, I'd still have more than 2 mags)

I hope to bug in, then drive to... You don't want to fight...

however, the poster asked:
The scenario is that "rare" worst case bugout situation through armed hostile territory.

I've never "humped" ammo in the field.

I really did just want to know how much is practical for an able bodied man to physically carry in the different caliblers.

Ya'll are missing the point of the question.

My 'civillian bug out' fighting load is a Tennis racket case, and a Maxpidition Jumbo bag.
(Ak with a 20 rounder in the magweld, and 7 mags in the Maxpidition bag.)

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Look at the Houston evacuation, people were running out of gas on the road because of traffic...

Another reason not to wait till the last minute to leave if you're gonna leave.

My other favorite was the small earthquake in Hawaii which prompted everyone
to make a run on any gas stations still open after the power outage. You're
on an island --where ya gonna go?

If you have to go somewhere, especially on foot, you will be better off sacrificing
the space/weight of a mag for a GPS and some extra AA batts.
 
Get a couple Beta C 100 round drums for your AR and you should be fine. Also I would take 5 or more G17 mags with me.
 
Double basic infantry load?????:confused: :confused:

Who are you going to be fighting??:confused: :confused:

Are you going to need 420 rounds to "hold off" your neighbor???

Are you planning on being attacked by organized infantry units?? (In which case you're screwed regardless of your weapons and ammo load)???:confused:

Are "The Paranoids" out to get you??:evil:

Any of you guys ever try to eat ammo?
 
None of the post Katrina gun seizure prohibitions apply to guns carried openly in public.

So if you have to "bug out" of an urban area on foot, how far do you think you'll get before a LEO stops you and confiscates the EBR you were "brandishing?"

I'm guessing about a mile and a half, give or take. :barf: Some states are more tolerant of open carry than others, so check your local laws before resolving to trek across town with a rifle and a mountain of ammo.

To make matters worse, in CT (as in most states) it is a felony to resist an illegal arrest or seizure. You can't shoot a cop for not being a lawyer.
 
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