How much better is the H&K p30, than the Walther PPQ

[gym]

They look very similar other than one is hammer and the other is striker fired. But has anyone compared the two? It would have to be the H&K V1 LEM, as that has the Dble only action only variant, to the PPQ, they must be very similar, is the H&K worth almost double the price?
With the V1H&K it is a consistent 4.5 lb. pull each time, no safety or decocker.

 

[Fishbed77]

I wouldn't say it's better at all. Just different. Which trigger system do you prefer? Which feels better in your hand? Both are proven designs (the PPQ is just a variant of the P99, which has been around over 15 years).

Personally, though, I prefer the DA/SA P99AS or P30 to the PPQ or LEM trigger.

 

[TanklessPro]

Better is a relative term. I like HK's, just can't justify the price. I can easily spend $1000 on a 1911 but not on an HK. IMO the PPQ would be very hard to beat. It is by far my most favorite to shoot.

 

[jjones45]

The only way the hk would beat out the walther would be the grip since it's more adjustable with backstraps and side panels. Then on the other hand the walthers trigger is way better IMHO. The ppq is currently my favorite handgun and I own glock, hk, m&p, and sr. With all that said I still want a p30 and hk45, lol

 

[usp9]

I like the P30 grip and controls better, but both are excellent guns.

 

[ddc]

Funny you should ask...

I had just picked up a P30L with the V1 LEM trigger. About a week later my wife picked up a M2 PPQ (button mag release).

Prior to shooting her PPQ I was very satisfied with the HK trigger. There is a bit of low resistance take-up followed by a short, about 5 pound, trigger pull.

The PPQ trigger has much less take-up. The difference is significant. The main part of the trigger pull, once the small take-up has occurred, is shorter and lighter than the HK.

Another big difference is the reset. The HK has a reasonable reset for a double action trigger. However the PPQ reset is again significantly shorter.

Ergonomically they are similar as far as the grip is concerned. I like them both, a lot.

The HK has the ambidextrous paddle mag releases on the rear of the trigger guard. The PPQ is the M2 version with a conventional button release. There is an M1 PPQ with ambidextrous paddle mag releases somewhat similar to the HK.

I have not yet grown very fond of the paddle mag release on the HK. I know a lot of people swear by them.

The button mag release on the M2 PPQ is very easy to access. I like it and my wife who has trouble reaching the buttons on other guns has an easier time with the M2 PPQ.

I'm going to take some more time and give the HK a good look but if I was starting from scratch and knew then what I know now I'd get the PPQ instead.
I really like the trigger and the button mag release is more natural for me at this point.

They are both very solid guns. From a quality perspective you won't go wrong either way.

There is a pretty big price difference; close to $400 the last time I checked. I have to question if you are getting $400 more gun with the HK.

 

[Turkina]

If you plan on shooting 30,000 rounds or so, go with the HK. It will last that long and much longer. they are made to last a long time and their quality is great.

 

[gym]

Well most of you feel as Id do. I almost bought the P30 a half doxen times, but putting them in a side by side comparison, I don't see the value. The name is about the only difference. I like the LEm trigger on the V1 version, but then you don't get the cool decocker in the rear of the H&K. Comparing apples to apples, the PPQ, and the V1 lem, H&K, are pretty darn close. And you don't get night sights on either, for 900+ you should get them.
I feel the same way about 1911's I can buy a really nice colt or springer for a grand, the H&K seems to be way out of line IMO. I know they shoot well but so do the Walthers. Back to square 1. Para has a super sale going on, and you can pick up a real nice gun for 7-800 dollars, maybe that's next on the list along with Remington enhanced, who is running another big sale, the Enhanced for $635.00 is a nice gun. One of our members got one, and the 14 round Para's are also a consideration if you don't mind the weight of a 1911.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Personally I prefer HK guns for the adjustable grip, general ergos, and a hammer SA/DA system. I have an HK45 that is a great shooter.

So for me, it's worth it. Walther has a good rep though.

 

[jjones45]

If you plan on shooting 30,000 rounds or so, go with the HK. It will last that long and much longer. they are made to last a long time and their quality is great.

While the hk's are built to last very long, so are other guns. There is a test done with a p30=90,000+, glock 17=70,000+, and m&p=60,000+ rounds before parts breakage. While this is impressive for the hk, you can see how almost all modern gun can tally more than 30,000 rounds and keep going. The new walthers offer lifetime warranty to original buyer and all guns break parts eventually, I don't care what it is.

 

[gym]

The M1 version of the PPQ is back on Buds and other sites with the paddle release, For 5 bills, very tempting.

 

[ddc]

The M1 version of the PPQ is back on Buds and other sites with the paddle release, For 5 bills, very tempting.

Yeah the price difference between the PPQ and the P30 is almost impossible to ignore.

With respect to the M1 PPQ vs. M2 PPQ: be aware that the mags are not compatible between the two. The M1 PPQ mags are the same as the P99 mags. Apparently the button mag release of the M2 necessitated a redesign of the mags; very unfortunate.

 

[Fishbed77]

The M1 PPQ mags are the same as the P99 mags. Apparently the button mag release of the M2 necessitated a redesign of the mags; very unfortunate.

Indeed. The redesign of the mag release and the inability to take inexpensive P99 (or clone) mags is a definite step backwards for the M2.

 

[ExTank]

I've stopped many times to admire the P30 (gun stores, gun shows, etc).

It feels very well in my hand; as good as my P99AS and PPQ.

And then I see the price.

If and when the P30's price drops, I'll consider it. Although, with my current stable, I'd be hard pressed (on space constraints alone!) to justify that purchase.

 

[HKGuns]

I own both and the P30 is the better pistol. Only you and your budget can tell if it is worth the price difference. I don't trust plastic sights or guide rods, but that is me and you might feel differently.

- Steel sights on P30 / Plastic sights on the PPQ
- Steel guide rod on P30 / Plastic guide rod on the PPQ
- P30 has a number of trigger options to suit your needs or taste
- PPQ comes with a light, short reset trigger and that is your only option
- Polymer on the P30 is tougher than the PPQ / The PPQ polymer is softer and mars more easily
- P30 is hammer fired / PPQ is striker fired
- P30 shoots softer with a tad less muzzle flip than the PPQ
- P30 has adjustable side plates the PPQ does not
- P30 magazine release is wide and easily manipulated PPQ magazine release is thin and easy to miss under stress (M1 PPQ)
- P30 will hold its value better and longer than the PPQ

I trust them both but trust the HK more and if I had to pick just one I would pick the P30 over the PPQ. Others might choose differently. That is just my preference and I prefer HK guns in general for a number of reasons.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I think it boils down to who you like more... James Bond or Jack Bauer... James Bond is a Walther guy and Jack Bauer is an HK guy. Personally, I think Jack Bauer could take on James Bond any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[kefefs]

I love the P30, but I have to admit the PPQ is a better pistol, especially for the money.

Ergonomics are very similar. Size is similar. Fit and finish is similar. Capacity is the same. The main difference is the trigger. With the PPQ you get a light, crisp SAO trigger with a short and tactile reset. It's known for its trigger. With the P30 LEM you get a long, albeit smooth and light pre-cocked DAO trigger, with an equally long reset.

Unless you think the PPQ's trigger is too light for carry (and there are people that do, you wouldn't be alone) I'd opt for it over the P30. H&K just isn't known for their triggers and I can't for the life of me see what makes the P30 cost $300ish more than a PPQ ($800-$900 vs $550-$600).

 

[Fishbed77]

Not trying to get into a tit for tat, because both of these pistols are excellent, but some of these point do need further clarification:

- Steel sights on P30 / Plastic sights on the PPQ

Agreed, but add a $90 set of Meprolights to a PPQ and you still have a lot of money left over compared to a P30.

- Steel guide rod on P30 / Plastic guide rod on the PPQ

Google pics of broken steel P99 guide rods. The P99/PPQ was engineered for a polymer guide rod. The P30 was presumably engineered for a steel one. Of course, the steel/polymer arguments will never die.

- P30 has a number of trigger options to suit your needs or taste

- PPQ comes with a light, short reset trigger and that is your only option

Guess you've never heard of the P99AS, P99QA, or P99DAO (and Europe-only P99Q and P99RAD)? All of these are the same basic design with different trigger group options. Granted, only the DA/SA P99AS and constant-action PPQ are still available in the US. And the HKs are more modular - can't swap groups in the Walther pistols (since they have dedicated frames and slides).

- Polymer on the P30 is tougher than the PPQ / The PPQ polymer is softer and mars more easily

I've seen scuffed P30s and scuffed P99/PPQs. Both are more resistant to cosmetic damage than Glocks or M&Ps.

- P30 is hammer fired / PPQ is striker fired

Personal preference is personal preference. We'll have to wait to see if all these photos of supposed a pre-production striker-fired HK bear fruit.

- P30 shoots softer with a tad less muzzle flip than the PPQ

Agreed. The P30 is a heavier pistol.

- P30 has adjustable side plates the PPQ does not

It does.

- P30 magazine release is wide and easily manipulated PPQ magazine release is thin and easy to miss under stress (M1 PPQ)

And the PPQ's is longer and easier and faster to reach in my experience.

- P30 will hold its value better and longer than the PPQ

Maybe. I've seen used PPQ M1s fetching more money than new PPQ M2s or P99s.


Bottom line is that both are superb pistols based on proven designs.


.

 

[HKGuns]

Guess you've never heard of the P99AS, P99QA, or P99DAO? Granted, only the DA/SA P99AS and constant-action PPQ are still available in the US.

Guess you didn't realize the P99 is different than the PPQ....The question was concerning the PPQ not every other pistol in Walther's inventory. Or, you are just trying to be argumentative.

Do you own both? -I do.

 

[gym]

Which is easier to conceal?

 

[jjones45]

If you shop around you might be able to get 2 ppq's for the price of one p30. I've seen ppq's for under $500 and p30's for around $1000. HkGuns does make some great comparisons by the way. Steel sights are always gonna be better and an all steel guide rod will pretty much always mitigate muzzle flip, but many reliable tested guns use plastic guide rods. However as an hk fan myself I have to say their triggers are not up to par for $850-$1000 pistols. I am almost willing to say hkguns can shoot his ppq slightly more accurate than his p30 even though he probably won't admit it lol. There is a YouTube video of a guy doing accuracy test with a glock, xd, and ppq, and the ppq almost shoots all shots through one hole. I'm talking one ragged hole. I'm gonna try to find and post that video for you guys. The ppq's combination of ergo's , fit, and trigger make it the most accurate production out of the box polymer handgun in the world IMHO. Some may disagree but I've shot a lot of guns and the ppq has been more accurate for me with less effort than any others.

 

[jjones45]

Here the short video of just the ppq at 25 yards with a 5 shot group with one flyer
http://youtu.be/ydmE4U5G2ig
And here is the longer video with the glock and xdm. Skip to the 14-15 min mark if your impatient
http://youtu.be/L6VAkUySFe0

 

[sigarms228]

I own both a DA/SA HK P30L and a Walther PPQ.

IMO they are both terrific guns and I plan on keeping both forever.

One really would need to try both to see if there is any preference if only one is a possibility.

Keep in ind that HKs are built with parts that have a very long service life such as the recoil assembly that is supposed to not need to be changed until 20,000 rounds and you pay for such robustness. Also the barrels on HKs seem almost indestructable. Todd Green was getting excellent accuracy from his HK45 still after 50,000 rounds fired.

I really get tired of hearing how an HK costs double this or that however. Grabagun recently had P30S for $729. That is about $180 more than a PPQ. It pays to be patient and shop around especially online.

While the trigger on my PPQ is heaven made the trigger on my P30LS is IMO pretty decent especially after about 300 rounds fired. I find the SA to be particularly nice though with a long reset if that is important to one. It is not to me as I am used to long reset on my SIGs also. The DA is pretty decent to but I don't try to stage the DA - just a smooth constant pull all the way through.

I am a bit more accurate with my PPQ but good enough with my P30L and getting better. My P30L is also an exceptionally soft shooter.

 

[jjones45]

I own both a DA/SA HK P30L and a Walther PPQ.

IMO they are both terrific guns and I plan on keeping both forever.

One really would need to try both to see if there is any preference if only one is a possibility.

Keep in ind that HKs are built with parts that have a very long service life such as the recoil assembly that is supposed to not need to be changed until 20,000 rounds and you pay for such robustness. Also the barrels on HKs seem almost indestructable. Todd Green was getting excellent accuracy from his HK45 still after 50,000 rounds fired.

I really get tired of hearing how an HK costs double this or that however. Grabagun recently had P30S for $729. That is about $180 more than a PPQ. It pays to be patient and shop around especially online.

While the trigger on my PPQ is heaven made the trigger on my P30LS is IMO pretty decent especially after about 300 rounds fired. I find the SA to be particularly nice though with a long reset if that is important to one. It is not to me as I am used to long reset on my SIGs also. The DA is pretty decent to but I don't try to stage the DA - just a smooth constant pull all the way through.

I am a bit more accurate with my PPQ but good enough with my P30L and getting better. My P30L is also an exceptionally soft shooter.

So you own sig, hk, and walther and you say the ppq trigger is heaven made and the p30's trigger is pretty decent and your more accurate with the ppq as well. You also say you get tired of hearing hk cost double this and that like that's not a factor for anyone. P30's for $729 are few and far between,trust me. IMHO hk's should be priced in that range anyways. Once again while hk's are built to last a very high round count with no mandatory replacing of parts, who is going to shoot 20,000 rounds without replacing parts? If you can afford to shoot 20,000 rounds thru one firearm you are probably a serious shooter and maintain your weapons well and can afford to replace parts before the breaking point. So with a better trigger, reset, and accuracy the hk is worth on an average of let's say $300 more? I'm not picking a argument with you, just trying to understand how the ppq beats out your own p30 but the p30 is better. P30L would be better compared to a ppq 5". In that accuracy test video I posted the ppq was the 4" vs. competition glock and xdm. I've seen ppq's for as low as $485 and that is a great price for such a quality weapon. I have an hk and have had sigs in the past and the hk trigger is nothing to write home about, although it's not bad either. It's just not as good as let's say sig or cz da/sa triggers IMHO. If you look at the more well known gun reviewers on YouTube (nutnfancy, hickok45, sootch00, colion noir, or whoever else) they all rave over this gun. Those same reviewers like the p30 but don't seem to be quite impressed as with the ppq. While hk makes some of the worlds best weapons with quality second to none, I think we can agree walther hit this one out the park with the ppq. I'm just giving credit where credit is do and that my friend is to walther and the ppq

 

[sota]

Many a learned and respected gun person has reviewed the P30, not been totally blown away with trigger this or sights that or ergo other. But nearly all have had the same answer when asked the question "if you had to choose 1 hand gun that you'd know you'd be using in a gun fight at some point, which one would it be?"... and they nearly universally choose the P30 (or some other HK.) For me at least, that speaks volumes.