How much does your BOB weigh? How far can you go?

[MyRoad]

I don't know if I need to lighten the load, or just get in better shape...

I just completed my first attempt at setting up a BOB. It weighs in at 40lbs. even. The idea was three days worth of food, cloths, and emergency supplies, and that's what it came out to. Deciding what to put in my BOB is based on info I've culled from several sources, maybe some better than others.

The goal of this bag is to get me home if for some reason I'm stuck. The first scenario is I'm far away, and car-camping my way home. The second is the car breaks down or roads are impassible, and I'm on foot -- at what I would guess a reasonable range would be under 60 miles away -- and I need to hike it back.

How far can the average person in decent shape hike per day with 40 lbs. on their back? I suppose I won't really know until I try. And hills and mountains would make a difference, but I'm guessing about 20 miles per day? That's averaging 2 mph, 10 hours of actual hiking per day.

So how much does your BOB's weigh?

Contents List:
3 MRE's
2 cans sardines
1 bottle water (not enough!)
light sticks
headlamp
bugspray
Technu
sewing kit
toothbrush
toothpaste
dental floss
soap
TP
rope
(chemical) hand warmers
zip lock baggies
bedroll
emergency mylar sleeping bag
3 days worth of cloths, towel
water purifier
map
candles
fire starters (several kinds)
first aid kit
lighter
knife sharpener
crank radio with light and phone recharger
garbage bags
folding shovel
2 - 33 round G19 mags
mini-cleaning kit
bungie cords
gloves
pepper spray
$500 small bills
compass
another lighter
flashlight
folding knife
cloth athletic tape
camping silver ware
3 cliff bars
small ax
pry bar
pruning knife
...I think that's it.

 

[Treo]

Ditch the extra clothes ( except cold weather gear and extra socks ) get a pump style water filter ( quicker)

 

[.38 Special]

One test for the prospective "hard man" is the "20/20": that's 20 miles in a day with a 20 pound pack. That'll leave even a fit and experienced hiker pretty used up. Three days of it in a row is very, very difficult. And three days in a row of it with double the weight... No thanks.

I do note a number of very heavy items in your pack. Things I don't carry in my multi-day packs:

Canned food -- the cans often outweigh the contents
light sticks -- not as useful as LED headlamps
bugspray -- again, no cans. A small pack of bug wipes is much lighter
rope -- unless I'm out for a technical day. Otherwise, ten feet of lightweight cordelette or tubular webbing weighs almost nothing and takes care of necessary chores
An entire roll of TP -- not too heavy, of course, but bulky. A quarter of a roll, wrapped up flat and stored in a Ziplock bag should do the trick
bedroll -- ???
3 days worth of cloths, towel -- neither is necessary. Enough clothing to survive the weather in your area, and enough to change into if you get soaked, if hypothermia can be a problem
water purifier -- a bulky filter device is a pain. A small bottle of tabs is better
candles -- almost useless
first aid kit -- yes, but not some bulky plastic thing with a bunch of useless crap in it. A few carefully selected items in a plastic bag is perfect
knife sharpener -- maybe for a three month trip...
crank radio with light -- How many pounds is that right there?
folding shovel -- only for multi-day trips in snow
2 - 33 round G19 mags -- only if I'm camping in Afghanistan
bungie cords -- heavy and almost useless
flashlight -- I've already got my LED headlight plus backup
camping silver ware -- one plastic or titanium spork
small ax -- another couple of pounds?
pry bar -- ditto
pruning knife -- doing a little light gardening while the SHTF?

If you're genuinely serious about this kind of preparedness, you'll need to put in some overnight trips and long hikes carrying your pack. It won't take much of that before you start casting a jaundiced eye toward packing things you used to think pretty important. Have fun!

 

[MyRoad]

.38spl., thanks for the review. The ax and shovel are heavy and unnecessary, I'm sure if car-camping turned to hiking, I would leave them behind. The radio is pretty light, and I think useful in an emergency.

The pry bar is an odd choice, something that I read about. The person suggested that if you are on foot in a complete (even temporary) social break down in an urban area, you may find yourself needing to enter an abandoned building... not a great scenario by any stretch. I'm sure I could lose that too.

Oregon is wet more than half the year, my thought would be that as I changed cloths, I'd probably be leaving the wet stuff behind. Between that and eating, the pack would get a little lighter each day.

I'll see what it takes to bring it down to 20lbs. That seems like a reasonable goal.

 

[mudriver]

40lbs isn't too bad - but 20 would be better for the average person. However, 80lbs+ per day over 25 miles in hills is more than possible if you get in shape : )

 

[Tyrannosaurus]

This is a great thread. I've been working on a BoB (Vietnam-era ALICE pack) for several months, and I have some things to pare down as far as weight. However, I don't plan on hiking with my pack- it's more for the trunk of my car if I need to get out of Dodge, or to have around the house if I need to stay put.

I'm seconding the importance of the crank radio. When Ike hit Houston, it was invaluable in providing information on areas to get ice, drinking water, and MRE's (for some of those less prepared). Also, in an urban setting, it is important to be able to tap into what's going on in the rest of the city.

 

[FourTeeFive]

If you're talking basic survival a .22 pistol is light and allows you to carry much more ammo. Of course I'm talking about it for getting food, not for defense.

That is obviously for a longer term survival situation. But a three day trip can turn much longer if things go bad (in any number of ways).

 

[MaterDei]

Great start! 20 miles/day is doable.

I'd start with more water on hand and bring some purification tabs for later. Get some decent bottles or a hydration pack. Check out www.camelbak.com .

The MREs have toilet paper in them. I'd ditch the bulky roll. Ditto the rope. Light but bulky, get some para cord instead.

Take care of your feet. Wool socks and moleskin are a must.

Pack one good pair of hiking boots and good hiking clothes. There is no telling what you might be wearing when the SHTF so having one guaranteed set of clothing and boots is a must. Other then socks, and maybe underwear, I'd not worry about any additional changes of clothes. Your clothes will dry when the rain stops.

The shovel, pry bar and hatchet are heavy. I'd go with just the shovel. A shovel makes a decent hatchet but a hatchet makes a bad shovel.

I might get flamed for this but I think you've packed too much ammo.

I, too, like the radio, mostly because it can charge your phone.

Have you got any head gear and/or sun screen? I realize you're up north but these are still important. Bandanas are good multipurpose items. They are also very light. I'd recommend one or two of them.

 

[Floppy_D]

20 miles a day with 20 lbs, what are you going to do with the other 18 hours? That's a lot of sleep.

For fun, find a decent trail in your area, weigh your bag down with plates or sand, and test yourself out. See what your body can carry. While in the Cascades, I carried a 35lb pack with my 3yo son on my shoulders... but I'm a stocky guy who makes a decent mule.

Paracord and knowledge of a few knots is handy.

For survival ammo, you can have a whole hell of a lot more 22 for the weight of 9mm you've planned.

 

[MyRoad]

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I weigh about 155 lbs. (I'm about 5'6" tall), so 40 lbs. is about 26% of my body weight.

I haven't been exercising in the last few months, I think I just need to get back in shape, and leave a few items in the car but not in the pack. 20 lbs. is a nice goal, but as I look at things, I think 30 lbs. would be reasonable.

I will look into the water purification pills. My hiking boots are always in my car, since every hike I go on starts with a car ride anyway.

I think more than one person mentioned that 10 hours is not a lot of time moving. I'm 43, and I'm not in top shape, so I was trying to be realistic about hiking and resting in intervals. The 10 hours of movement might be spread out across 15 of clock time. This is of course, assuming no one is chasing me.

This was my first attempt at a BoB. Some of the items here I bought just for this, but most were grabbed from things I already had, so they aren't optimal. I'll keep upgrading as time goes by.

 

[Th3_M4d_1r1shm4n]

I think it was the Romans who discovered that a soldier can march for any given distance or length of time carrying 1/3 of the soldier's body weight and still arrive at a location "ready to fight". That said, 40 lbs. is still a lot of weight, and there's definitely room to pare down that load into something lighter. 40 lbs. may not seem like a lot sitting at the trailhead...but 3 miles and 1000 feet of elevation later, 40 lbs. feels like a Shetland pony, trust me.

Which segues into the only other comment I'll make - the 20 miles/day idea. This pace, honestly, depends on terrain. Living in Colorado for 21 years, I can think of times when I've covered 9 miles in 2 hours...and times when I've covered 3 miles in 6 hours. So, before you set on that 20 miles/day pace - check out a topo map. Weather is always another factor, too.

That said, I think you have the right idea - now it's time to tweak and adjust things.

 

[kurts_armory]

haha i have the same hatchet in mine

 

[Realbigo]

I recomend that maybe you need to layer your BOB. carry 1MRE, Flashlite, 1staidkit, etc. that you may need to grab in minor emergency. I keep mine in a small backpack on the back of my seat. Then i have Items I would need for a longer period/more serious situation in Handy duffle bag, and in that, I still have some items seperated in an air tight Spacebag, that I can dump if weight become an Issue. I can use the full kit to hike home, or just parts of it as need be w/out having to pull the whole rig out each time. Oh and one other thing. +1 on the fish as an emergency food source, but you can now get tuna and the like in foil pouches for weight savings.

 

[.38 Special]

I think more than one person mentioned that 10 hours is not a lot of time moving.

You'll also notice people on this website who claim to be able to shoot groups that would win any Olympics or world championships ever held -- with their box-stock .44 Magnums and Glock foaties. Not that I doubt anyone, of course...

FWIW, I spend summers participating in "ultramarathon" bicycle rides -- up to 750 miles at a go -- and my winters mountaineering. This is not meant as a brag, as there are folks way tougher than me, but simply as background information for you to consider when I claim that 10 hour hikes with 40 pound packs are hard, no matter who you are. The idea that the "average" man can just up and do it with no real preparation is kind of silly, as far as I am concerned. Yes, it can be done, but it would be a death march -- and the last thing in the world this poor fellow is going to want to do is wake up in the morning and do it again, and again.

AFAIC, you had it right when you said you won't know for yourself until you try it. Hopefully you won't get discouraged when it turns out some of these "easy" hikes aren't quite as easy as some folks make them out to be...

 

[MyRoad]

+1 on the fish as an emergency food source

I learned about that from watching a movie called "Wetbacks: The Undocumented Documentary" about the journey illegal aliens make from Central America to the U.S. completely on foot. Some will leave with nothing but a few cans of Sardines, some crackers, and some water. They say the Sardines are the best source of nutrition they've found, and some have made the journey several times, so they know what they're talking about.

you had it right when you said you won't know for yourself until you try it

I like the idea posted earlier about putting a 40lb. bag of sand in a backpack, and then setting out for a day hike. That way if it becomes unbearable I can keep letting sand out until it seems manageable, and then at the end of the day, weigh the pack again. Of course I'll do a series of regular hikes first, get my body up to speed.

 

[beatcop]

Can the radio, axe, 30 rd mags, bedroll, shovel

Get something to hold water, a camelback or something. A pump water filter, another MRE, aspirin, imodium, good socks.

Get the weight down to 20lbs

 

[LAK]

Greatest distance I've gone in one stretch is just over 40 miles, in low mountain country with a substantial portion on hard tarmac with a daypack of what I would estimate as about 10 pounds. I've done more than 20 miles many times, including mountain climbs with light and heavy loads. I would usually try and keep a pack load down to about 30 pounds, not including rope, hardware etc.

10 miles a day is a reasonable goal for someone in good physical condition carrying a loaded pack weighing about 40 pounds. Providing you do not have to ascend or descend any extended steep changes in elevation. On difficult, unstable ground, scree slopes, snow, ice etc one can either significantly reduce the pack weight, or correspondingly reduce the miles covered. If you can get your pack weight down to about 30 pounds so much the better. Stay hydrated and take regular breaks; every hour to two hours of 5-10 minutes, preferably feet elevated.

A most important factor is your footwear; good fit and good support. And in the case of boots, ounces off your feet will make a bigger difference than than pounds off your back. Heavy boots will wear you out quicker than anything else.

Looking at your gear and list, I would remove the following;

toothpaste (use a bit of salt and water)
soap
clothes, towel (EXCEPT change of underwear and socks)
candles
prybar
Handwarmers
trashbags
ziplocs (unless thay actually contain anything).

I would;

Replace the Glock - with something like a 4" .22 Browning Buckmark, two extra mags that work, and 200 rounds of ammo that feed and place well; You can carry a brick in the car.

Replace 3 MRE's - with 3 cans sardines, some deer jerky, dried fruit and nuts, perhaps or hard candy.

Replace camping silverware - with a few plastic forks (You have a folding knife for cutting)

Replace bungie cords and rope - with 50' paracord

Replace folding shovel and small ax and pruning knife - with a Tramontina 12" machete. It will do "most of the above most of the time" and weighs less.

Replace crank radio - with a compact handheld broadband receiver (Icom, Yaesu etc) that will run on AA batteries (lithium) in addition to the usually supplied rechargable battery pack. Do not store the batteries in the receiver unless you use it at other times. Keep an extra two sets of batteries (Energizer Ultimate Lithium). Learn how to operate it.

Replace TP - with 5-10 small sealed packets of kleenex.

If the bedroll weighs much more than about 3 pounds - replace with a good lightweight sleeping bag.

Add:

Survival Straws or similar type filter(s). They are small, weigh nothing significant, and three days water is way too much to pack.

Goretex bivvy bag. It will add to the temperature rating of your sleeping bag, keep you dry, and weighs a fraction of a tent, tarp and the effort of making a shelter after a long strenuous hike or climb.

Closed cell foam mat. Bulky but super light, and will save you considerable effort to find enough fine, soft natural material in cold temps on which to sleep without all your body heat draining into the ground.

A small plastic bottle of isopropyl alcohol. Sanitation and sterilization if needed.

A solar charger that will charge phone and rechargable battery pack of handheld receiver to keep in the car. This can be used to trickle charge car battery as well. Some are small and light enough to pack.

--------------------------------

http://gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.com

 

[ZombieHunter]

Contents List:
3 MRE's
2 cans sardines
@@ in my opinion you can get denser food than an MRE, and +1 to foil fish, add some multivitamins
1 bottle water (not enough!)
light sticks
headlamp
@@ LED headlamp + batteries
bugspray
@@ wipes
Technu
sewing kit
@@ only if it's no more than a film case with some string/needles
toothbrush
toothpaste
dental floss
@@ only if they're all travel size
soap
TP
@@ as mentioned, wrap a 1/4 roll up and put in ziplock
rope
@@ 50' paracord
(chemical) hand warmers
zip lock baggies
@@ how about a bunch of plastic wrap?
bedroll
emergency mylar sleeping bag
3 days worth of cloths, towel
@@ replace with backup undies, extra pair of wool socks/liner socks and super light 3 season bag
water purifier
map
candles
@@ you have an LED head lamp
fire starters (several kinds)
@@ film canister loaded with waterproof matches and a few days practice in your backyard
first aid kit
@@ figure out what is redundant/useful
lighter
knife sharpener
@@ buy a good knife
crank radio with light and phone recharger
garbage bags
@@ leave the bodies at home...they weigh a lot
folding shovel
2 - 33 round G19 mags
@@ just mail those to me, get a .22 for your BOB
mini-cleaning kit
@@ who cleans a .22?
bungie cords
@@ you have paracord
gloves
pepper spray
@@ you have a gun
$500 small bills
compass
another lighter
flashlight
@@ LED head lamp
folding knife
cloth athletic tape
@@ duct tape wrapped like the TP
camping silver ware
@@ spork!
3 cliff bars
small ax
pry bar
pruning knife
@@ keep the pry bar, the compact shovel will do as a passable ax

Other suggestions:

Organize your contents list by category so everything is with each other, food, clothing, supplies, tools etc

 

[MyRoad]

some quick notes:

"first aid kit
@@ figure out what is redundant/useful"

its a very small lightweight kit in a bag. I think its fine as is -- but per other suggestions, I will add asperin or ibuprofin

"pepper spray
@@ you have a gun"

there are lots of cases where less than lethal weapons are a good thing, like perhaps an aggressive dog

"cloth athletic tape
@@ duct tape wrapped like the TP"

the cloth tape is matt black, duct tape is shiny silver... not very tacticool!

"Other suggestions:
Organize your contents list by category so everything is with each other, food, clothing, supplies, tools etc"

its hard to tell from the picture (you can kind of see if you look that some groupings are laying on bags), but except for the things in the side pockets, all of the things in the main compartment are in smaller bags, organized by category.

thanks again everyone, I'll have Version 2.0 rolled out in a week or so.

 

[ZombieHunter]

woohoo can't wait to see it

 

[JWarren]

I don't mean to sound critical. This post is trying to cut through the thought process and attempt to be constructive.

I recognize that different parts of the country may well have different needs. You live in a much colder climate than I do, and I will keep that in mind.

However...

I am perplexed by some of your choices for a THREE-DAY bag. As I understand it from your original post, your goal is to have a "survival" bag capable of keeping you going for three days of being isolated and/or stranded in what I assume to be a wilderness/rural setting. The assumption that I have also made is that your in this situation is to get back to "civilization."

Maybe I am wrong with the assumptions.

The reason I make the distinction is that there may well be different concerns with you are Bugging OUT verses needing some items while trying to get BACK.

This is where the "Three day" thing comes in.


For instance....

A person can live -- if I remember correctly-- over 20 days without food. However, they need to have water within 4 days to survive-- IF I remember correctly.

You can get away with a LOT less food and need a lot MORE water in your three day bag.

Let my give a take on a few things-- again, I mean no disrespect.

3 MRE's

- You don't need that much for a three-day bag.

2 cans sardines

- You don't need. ESPECIALLY if you had the MRE's above.

1 bottle water (not enough!)

- You need more water.

light sticks

- Unneeded. You have redundancy with the lamps and fire starters.

headlamp

- OK. I can see a use.

bugspray

- Use wipes. Lighter and more compact.

Technu

- I have no idea what this is.

sewing kit

- Unneeded most likely. But it is light and compact. If it makes you feel better, go for it.

toothbrush

-Your teeth won't fall out if you don't brush them for 3 days.

toothpaste

-Your teeth won't fall out if you don't brush them for 3 days.

dental floss

-Your teeth won't fall out if you don't floss them for 3 days.

soap

- Antibacterial baby wipes will be lighter and more compact.

TP

- OK. It is light and compact.

rope

- OK. Use parachute cord.

(chemical) hand warmers

- OK.

zip lock baggies

- Why? Use the ones you are putting things in as you use up stuff.

bedroll

- OK.

emergency mylar sleeping bag

- OK.

3 days worth of cloths, towel

- Probably unneeded. You decide.

water purifier

- OK

map

- OK

candles

- Unneeded. Redundent with all the fire-starting equipment and lamps.

fire starters (several kinds)

- OK. One or two is all you need.

first aid kit

- OK.

lighter

- Part of fire-starting, I assume.

knife sharpener

- In three days, your knife is fine.

crank radio with light and phone recharger

- OK.

garbage bags

- Probably unneeded. However, they are light and compact.

folding shovel

- What do you need it for in 3 days?

2 - 33 round G19 mags

- OK. Probably unneeded.

mini-cleaning kit

- Why? Your firearm shouldn't stop functioning in 3 days when you probably won't be using it.

bungie cords

- This is redundant with parachute cord.

gloves

- OK.

pepper spray

- Unneeded.

$500 small bills

- Why? This isn't needed in a 3 day bag.

compass

- OK.

another lighter

- Redundant.

flashlight

-Redundant with other light sources -- especially the headlamp.

folding knife

- OK.

cloth athletic tape

- OK.

camping silver ware

- Unneeded. We did fine without silverware once.

3 cliff bars

- What is a cliff bar?

small ax

- maybe. Probably unneeded.

I really get the impression that you aren't building a 3-day survival bag. I get the impression that you are trying to build a "I've-got-to-get-out-of-town-NOW-and-go-live-in-the-mountains" bag.

If the latter is the case, this is entirely a different discussion and different needs. The main differences are:

- the fact that one deals with circumstances forced upon you and the other is circumstances that you have some power in choosing and

- the duration of time that you are perhaps dealing with. A three-day bag assumes 3 days out. A Get-out-of-town bag deals with a certain degree of uncertaintity in duration.



Now that said...


Here is a great piece of advice from a guy that just got back yesterday from a week of hicking in the moutains.

Pack a bag to the same weight of your BOB. Now go on vacation and carry it. I did this last year at Disney World. You will QUICKLY see how unneeded some things become after lugging that all day. Sure, you can pick something up, but the average person will not fair so well carrying that amount ALL day. Make it light.


My BOB has two layers. One is vehicle-oriented. If I get in trouble there, I am either able to utilize the vehicle, or use it as a base of operations until I can get help.

The other is light enough to carry for a bit and only has what I need if I break out to get help.

As for "I've-got-to-get-out-of-town-and-live-in-the-moutains" bags, well-- I already live in the middle of nowhere. Everyone bugging OUT is coming to places like where I live NOW. I'm bugging IN.


-- John

 

[ilbob]

I have not done much serious hiking of late, but that pack gets real heavy of late, and I suspect the older and fatter I get, the less I am going to want in the pack.

3 MRE's They are quite heavy for the amount of food you get.
2 cans sardines I am not a sardine fan, but several cans of spam maybe.
1 bottle water (not enough!) You can only carry so much water. Its heavy @ 8 lbs per gallon. I would try to see if I could carry a couple of one liter bottles, maybe as many as four.
light sticks Not real useful.
headlamp LED style with extra batteries.
bugspray Insect repellent=good. Aerosol cans=extra weight that is not needed.
Technu OK.
sewing kit maybe a few needles and buttons stuck in with something else. dental floss makes great thread.
toothbrush A guy I knew who used to do a lot of hikes had a toothbrush with the handle cut off for hiking trips.
toothpaste A travel size tube maybe.
dental floss useful for lots of things. can often get a small sample pack when you get your teeth cleaned.
soap OK
TP OK. flatten out a partial roll maybe and put in a plastic bag. otherwise it will be a soggy mess the first time it rains.
rope parachute cord is probably better
(chemical) hand warmers excess weight
zip lock baggies a lot of stuff can be put in them, so you should already have some.
bedroll a nice sleeping bag is probably better
emergency mylar sleeping bag excess weight IMO. a tarp is a better choice and has more uses, and is only a little heavier
3 days worth of cloths, towel underwear and socks.
water purifier you can't carry enough water, so some means of making water safe to drink is important.
map yep
candles excess weight IMO
fire starters (several kinds) get something that actually works, as opposed to something that you will not be able to use when you need it the most.
first aid kit most "kits" are packed with stuff of limited utility to make it look like you are getting some kind of deal, or have all kinds of stuff you won't know how to use.
lighter part of fire starting
knife sharpener maybe
crank radio with light and phone recharger maybe
garbage bags forget it.
folding shovel OK. get a good one. personally, i think a non-folding one is better if it will fit in your bag.
2 - 33 round G19 mags only if you need to fight off hordes of zombies
mini-cleaning kit excess weight
bungie cords excess weight
gloves OK
pepper spray maybe
$500 small bills I'd bring a roll of quarters too for vending machines and pay phones
compass yes
another lighter we get it
flashlight you already have the head lamp
folding knife i think a fixed blade is more useful
cloth athletic tape part of first aid kit
camping silver ware OK. as someone else mentioned a metal spork is probably all you need.
3 cliff bars food is a personal choice
small ax not worth the weight. sawing is easier. even a cheap campers folding saw is easier than hacking.
pry bar for what?
pruning knife one knife is enough

I would add some way to cook food and heat water, some instant coffee or tea bags.

 

[MyRoad]

My BOB has two layers. One is vehicle-oriented. If I get in trouble there, I am either able to utilize the vehicle, or use it as a base of operations until I can get help.

The other is light enough to carry for a bit and only has what I need if I break out to get help.

That is part of my next goal, to differentiate the two scenarios and divide the gear into two groups.

your goal is to have a "survival" bag capable of keeping you going for three days of being isolated and/or stranded in what I assume to be a wilderness/rural setting. The assumption that I have also made is that your in this situation is to get back to "civilization."

This is where it does get a little complicated... the overall goal is to get home. This is not an all out long term 'survival' pack -- no fishing or hunting gear included. Most "get home" scenarios that I can imagine are either in the vehicle or hiking from urban to a more rural environment.

One possible scenario is that I'm in the next town over (a city of about 200,000 people), chaos happens and I have to hike out into the surrounding hills and wait it out for 24 to 48 hours. That's why the kit includes a certain amount of 'camping', sleeping, and/or 'build a fire' tools. So to some degree there is a mix of urban (ammo, pry bar) and wilderness (fire starter, ax) materials.

In the end there will of course be compromises, and I can't prepare for everything. But thanks again to everyone for all of your great suggestions.

 

[JWarren]

NP MyRoad.

Good luck with it and let us know what revisions you do. I, like most of us, am constantly re-evaluating my own stuff. I'd love to see what changes you make and determine if I need to do the same.


-- John

 

[MyRoad]

As a side note -- this is a Winter Bag. The cloths are only socks and underwear, but also in this case long johns and long sleeve T-shirt for extra layers. The hand warmers and fire starting supplies could probably be left out or diminished in the summer. And I would not store MRE's in my car in the summer -- which brings up a whole other topic;

What kind of food can be left in a car in the summer? and how long would you leave a plastic bottle of water in your car in the summer before its undrinkable? I've got about 5 or 6 months to come up with answers to those questions.