How much, if any, do Jacketed Soft Point bullets expand in 45 Colt?
- Thread starter Balrog
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Anchorite
Member
What do you define as expansion? Plenty of jacketed soft points will deform if driven fast enough from a revolver (which will vary from revolver to revolver).
Too many variables in the equation each time you run it.
Too many variables in the equation each time you run it.
silicosys4
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Too many variables in your question as stated.
What brand JSP? What speed are they intended to be driven at? What lead hardness do they use?
What are you shooting? A stump? A steel plate? A milk jug full of water? A deer? A person wearing winter clothing?
I can't say specifically for a .45 colt,
But as someone who casts and reloads, unless a JSP uses dead soft lead with a very thin jacket it won't expand significantly, if at all, when hitting flesh at any distance beyond point blank.
They will penetrate though.
What brand JSP? What speed are they intended to be driven at? What lead hardness do they use?
What are you shooting? A stump? A steel plate? A milk jug full of water? A deer? A person wearing winter clothing?
I can't say specifically for a .45 colt,
But as someone who casts and reloads, unless a JSP uses dead soft lead with a very thin jacket it won't expand significantly, if at all, when hitting flesh at any distance beyond point blank.
They will penetrate though.
Speedo66
Member
Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, but it’s already making a .45” hole.
I am looking for a self defense round in 45 Colt to be used in a Ruger New Vaquero with 4 3/4" barrel. I would carry this gun when on the farm and in the woods in Georgia. I would not be shooting at stumps, jugs of water. steel plates, or deer. It is unlikely if I needed it in self defense that winter clothing penetration would be an issue since it is not cold here most of the year.
Its purpose would be self defense against people mostly. Occasionally there are wild hogs and coyotes on the property. I would only be interested in shooting a hog or coyote if it decided to mess with me first. About the only other thing I might shoot with it is a rattlesnake, copperhead, or water moccasin, but they of course are easy to kill so that is not what I am asking about.
Maximum expected range I would use it would be around 25 yds, no more than 50 yds.
Not a lot of ammo is easily obtainable in 45 Colt. I can find cowboy loads with lead round nose. I can find Winchester PDX, but at $3/round, I am not going to be using that. I can find CCI Blazer 200g JHP's but not sure how they would penetrate if I shot a hog. The Federal AE 225g JSP seems like a decent compromise of price and performance.
Jim Watson
Member
Anticipate a lot of gunfights?
Any road, I would not expect a jacketed SOFT POINT to expand much.
I would be comfortable with the old standard load, a 250 at 850.
The HSM 250 gr Cowboy is not loaded down and is only a dollar a pop, which isn't bad these days.
HSM Cowboy Action Ammo 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Hard Cast Lead
HSM has become known as one of the top ammunition manufacturers in the country. HSM utilizes the highest quality components to offer extremely...
www.midwayusa.com
Being a handloader, I would just rustle up some suitable bullets and load to suit.
Rimrock makes some rather soft bullets, solid and hollowpoint that look good. Buffalo Bore uses them but that is expensive and heavily loaded.
My edc is a 45 ACP revolver. My edc loads are the SAECO 453 (235 grain full wadcutter) over a hardball dose of powder. That is also a good hunting load for Ohio white tailed deer.
Since it starts out at 45 caliber, I am not worried about expansion. I want through and through penetration.
Kevin
Since it starts out at 45 caliber, I am not worried about expansion. I want through and through penetration.
Kevin
JeffG
Member
One the better rounds for the 45 Colt is a250gr Keith semi wadcutter at moderate speeds. Good penetrator, no expansion needed.
What would be an example of a commercially available round like that?
Jim Watson
Member
To quote a usually reliable source - ME,
www.midwayusa.com
HSM Cowboy Action Ammo 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Hard Cast Lead
HSM has become known as one of the top ammunition manufacturers in the country. HSM utilizes the highest quality components to offer extremely...
www.midwayusa.com
Sacramento Johnson
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Look at HSM and Underwood ammo.
JeffG
Member
I like the heavier bullet...
Federal Premium Champion .45 Colt 225 Grain Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Centerfire Pistol Ammunition C45LCA for Target — Clearance, 18% Off
Great for Target. 18% Off. Be The First To Review this ammo. Clearance + Free Shipping over $49. Caliber: .45 Colt, Number of Rounds: 20, Bullet Type: Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point (SWCHP), Bullet...
* https://minutemanammo.com/products/45-colt-250-grain-rainier-flat-point-900fps-50-rounds
Last edited:
Jim Watson
Member
Like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read on the internet.
I hadn't heard of Minuteman ammo, either.
I just read their specs to see they are sources of full power but not magnumized .45 LC.
I hadn't heard of Minuteman ammo, either.
I just read their specs to see they are sources of full power but not magnumized .45 LC.
I hunt Illinois whitetail with 357, 44 mag and 45 Colt. I only expect the 357 to expand as I’m getting about 1450 fs. I use jhp. With the big two, I use cast 429421 and 454424 at about 1000-1100. Big hole, deep penetration.
To answer your question, a 45 jhp unless very thin jacket won’t expand at 850. At 1000, maybe.
To answer your question, a 45 jhp unless very thin jacket won’t expand at 850. At 1000, maybe.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Have you considered Hornady Leverevolution .45 Colt FTX 225 grain ammo?
Out of all the factory loads I have tried in my .45 Colt revolvers this round is most accurate. I haven’t shot game or gelatin with it but reviews of the round are very favorable. It would be my choice if I only used factory ammo.
AmmoSeek search for this round:
ammoseek.com
Specs:
Out of all the factory loads I have tried in my .45 Colt revolvers this round is most accurate. I haven’t shot game or gelatin with it but reviews of the round are very favorable. It would be my choice if I only used factory ammo.
AmmoSeek search for this round:
Hornady .45 Colt Ammo handgun 225 grains Leverevolution
In-stock best prices for Hornady .45 Colt Ammo handgun 225 grains Leverevolution | Cheap Hornady .45 Colt Ammunition handgun 225 grains Leverevolution - AmmoSeek.com
ammoseek.com
Specs:
doubleh
Member
The round was a reliable horse killer when it was loaded with blackpowder and lead bullets. I wouldn't worry too much about it's performance on humans.
I have never shot a living thing with it but it's performance on steel swingers is startling compared to it's smaller cousin, the 45 ACP.
I have never shot a living thing with it but it's performance on steel swingers is startling compared to it's smaller cousin, the 45 ACP.
For real expansion, Barnes and Buffalo bore Barnes loads are truly designed to do what you're asking, but cheap...they aren't. For cheap+intent, maybe look at the blazer 200 jhp.... my experience in .357 158 jsp and .41 210 jsp leads me to say that those run of the mill jsp do best when hitting heavy resistance (i.e. shoulder bones hip bones etc) jhp, Barnes, norma, copper hp, or ftx would be better served for immediate tissue destruction over hard penetration. That being said soft lead does well too, but match the bhn to the speed.
dranrab
Member
Gold Dot factory loads will expand.
KansasTrapper77
Member
I too am trying to develop a hollow point load for .45 colt under 1000fps. I am trying a Berrys Hybrid Hollow point as I figure a plated soft lead hollow point bullet ought to have as good a chance as anything at expanding at low speed.
Alaskamike
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Unfortunately I think a lot of people didn't bother to read that you are looking for a load for use in your Ruger New Vaquero. I would absolutely not try to use hot ammo like from HSM, Underwood, or Buffalo Bore. Many people seem to forget that the New Vaquero uses the smaller frame than the original Vaquero, which could handle the hotter loads.
For your New Vaquero you want to limit your choices to standard pressure loads only.
As far as bullet choice, I'm also in the cast semi-wadcutter camp. However, it's worth pointing out that commercial loads using JHPs use bullets that are intended to expand at those velocities. I'm sure there may be exceptions, but they will be the exception, not the norm.
Keep in mind you can always call the manufacturer to verify the expansion velocity of the bullet they use in a specific load.
Good luck and stay safe.
For your New Vaquero you want to limit your choices to standard pressure loads only.
As far as bullet choice, I'm also in the cast semi-wadcutter camp. However, it's worth pointing out that commercial loads using JHPs use bullets that are intended to expand at those velocities. I'm sure there may be exceptions, but they will be the exception, not the norm.
Keep in mind you can always call the manufacturer to verify the expansion velocity of the bullet they use in a specific load.
Good luck and stay safe.
halfmoonclip
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Rethink those cowboy loads. They are already making nearly half inch holes, and a 250 grain bullet has plenty of oomph.
My handloads make about 750'sec, ring steel, and knock big chunks out of dangling bowling pins.
Remind yourself that original .45 Colt was meant to kill a man, or the horse he was on. Isn't there a saying sorta like that?
Moon
My handloads make about 750'sec, ring steel, and knock big chunks out of dangling bowling pins.
Remind yourself that original .45 Colt was meant to kill a man, or the horse he was on. Isn't there a saying sorta like that?
Moon
Anchorite
Member
I like to think of the 45 Colt loads like this….a “cowboy” load is going to hit like an empty school bus. A stepped-up load from any of the modern manuals is going to hit like a loaded cement truck.Rethink those cowboy loads. They are already making nearly half inch holes, and a 250 grain bullet has plenty of oomph.
My handloads make about 750'sec, ring steel, and knock big chunks out of dangling bowling pins.
Remind yourself that original .45 Colt was meant to kill a man, or the horse he was on. Isn't there a saying sorta like that?
Moon
How hard do you want to hit? Because this is going to leave a mark…
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