How Not to Answer the Door

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Kleanbore

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The first thing the reader will probably note here is that police officers arriving at the wrong house shot and killed an innocent citizen.

Well, that is what happened, but that overlooks the real error in this tragedy.

We have had many threads about answering the door, how to do so, and whether to do so at all. Massad Ayoob has made a video about it--about not standing directly in front of the door, and about how to not open the door until we are confident that it is a good idea to do so.

Some of our members say that they never answer the door unless they have been called in advance by the visitor. That does not work for me.

Others tell about how they can look outside through windows and see who is there. That is a better idea.

Others say that they go to the door with gun in hand to be ready, in case the visitor turns out to be a violent criminal actor.

I have never understood that strategy. Do people really think that bringing a gun into play would be an effective means of self protection? That the gun will stop incoming fire? I don't. And I do not want to have gun in my hand as I hand my ID to the delivery person who is bringing an order that includes alcohol.

I have watched a lot of westerns, but not so many that I have come to believe that having a gun in hand is a good way to answer the door.

Massad's video is a little long in the tooth. Today, we can rely upon cameras with an intercom. I do.

Now to the news item. Two persons went to the door carrying handguns. Police officers shot and killed one of them. It's tragic, but is should not have come as a surprise.

Think about it. Forget that the man was shot by the police, Had the men at the door been armed robbers, would the result have been different?

This could have been avoided. Don't let it happen to you.

https://www.kmov.com/2023/04/07/police-shoot-kill-homeowner-after-responding-wrong-house/
 
It is possible to answer the door with a gun in your hand without making it visible.

"And I do not want to have gun in my hand as I hand my ID to the delivery person who is bringing an order that includes alcohol."

Why does it matter?
 
Kleanbore said:
The first thing the reader will probably note here is that police officers arriving at the wrong house shot and killed an innocent citizen.

Well, that is what happened, but that overlooks the real error in this tragedy.

We have had many threads about answering the door, how to do so, and whether to do so at all. Massad Ayoob has made a video about it--about not standing directly in front of the door, and about how to not open the door until we are confident that it is a good idea to do so.

Some of our members say that they never answer the door unless they have been called in advance by the visitor. That does not work for me.

Others tell about how they can look outside through windows and see who is there. That is a better idea.

Others say that they go to the door with gun in hand to be ready, in case the visitor turns out to be a violent criminal actor.

I have never understood that strategy. Do people really think that bringing a gun into play would be an effective means of self protection? That the gun will stop incoming fire? I don't. And I do not want to have gun in my hand as I hand my ID to the delivery person who is bringing an order that includes alcohol.

I have watched a lot of westerns, but not so many that I have come to believe that having a gun in hand is a good way to answer the door.

Massad's video is a little long in the tooth. Today, we can rely upon cameras with an intercom. I do.

Now to the news item. Two persons went to the door carrying handguns. Police officers shot and killed one of them. It's tragic, but is should not have come as a surprise.

Think about it. Forget that the man was shot by the police, Had the men at the door been armed robbers, would the result have been different?

  • This could have been avoided. Don't let
Click to expand...
Forget he was shot by the law, for the lawless do same??? Please reveiw & consider editing.
 
Sorry not trying to stir the pot. Seriously! There's got to be more to the story. There was a reason at the interaction between the police and home occupant that's not being told. To iffy.
 
PistoleroWadcutterGANG said:
Sorry not trying to stir the pot. Seriously! There's got to be more to the story. There was a reason at the interaction between the police and home occupant that's not being told. To iffy.
Click to expand...

More to the story? It doesn't take much. In the following video, a guy answers the door with a gun in his hand, not seeing the two cops standing off to the side of the door. The guy leans forward to drop his gun, as he's told, after which the cop said he "lunged" at him.



There's another (I can't find it right now) in which a cop looks in through a window and sees the homeowner near the front door with a gun in his hand, and shoots him through the window.

There's a part of me that sees why a cop has a reasonable fear of someone answering the door with a gun.

There's another part of me that wonders how every fish and game officer makes it through hunting season without shooting everyone who has a gun.

Maybe some rabbit cops need to be imported into the city?

I like Massad Ayoob's advice that you just don't answer the door late at night, but the cops are usually pretty insistent that you answer the door at any hour of the day. And the cop yelling through a steel and foam door doesn't carry through the house as loud as the knock. Cops always say they identify themselves. They either don't identify themselves at my house, or they don't say it loud enough, because I've never known it was a cop before I looked though the peephole. And that's if I can see them, and they're not hiding behind the garage.
 
wayneinFL said:
More to the story? It doesn't take much. In the following video, a guy answers the door with a gun in his hand, not seeing the two cops standing off to the side of the door. The guy leans forward to drop his gun, as he's told, after which the cop said he "lunged" at him.



There's another (I can't find it right now) in which a cop looks in through a window and sees the homeowner near the front door with a gun in his hand, and shoots him through the window.

There's a part of me that sees why a cop has a reasonable fear of someone answering the door with a gun.

There's another part of me that wonders how every fish and game officer makes it through hunting season without shooting everyone who has a gun.

Maybe some rabbit cops need to be imported into the city?

I like Massad Ayoob's advice that you just don't answer the door late at night, but the cops are usually pretty insistent that you answer the door at any hour of the day. And the cop yelling through a steel and foam door doesn't carry through the house as loud as the knock. Cops always say they identify themselves. They either don't identify themselves at my house, or they don't say it loud enough, because I've never known it was a cop before I looked though the peephole. And that's if I can see them, and they're not hiding behind the garage.
Click to expand...

You seem very knowledgable on police visits.
 
We've had a lot of new people move into our area since Covid started. Some of them are not nice people. There is much more petty theft and related shenanigans happening in our neighborhood.

Some vagrant hopped right into my neighbors truck and started rifling through his stuff. This was 3PM on a weekday. Neighbors' wife watched him do it through the window (while neighbor was weed-eating 30 feet away).

We put cameras up all around the house. Real, wired , night vision cameras with an NVR that has it's own power backup. The cameras are all high enough that you aren't going to reach them without a 12 foot ladder, and each cam overlaps with another. I'm sure someone could figure out how to disable more than one a a time...but I did my best to make sure it wouldn't be easy.

There is one that sticks out of the house and points at the front door. It's very obvious. There is also a sign that says, "If you do not know my name, you are not welcome here.". I'm a subtle guy.

The point is that not only do we not answer the door, we don't even get off the couch to see who's there. If it's someone we don't know, we ignore them. No exceptions.

Our favorite game (the wife and I), is to bet on how long solicitors will stand there with their hands clasped in front. Waiting. We giggle loud enough that they can hear us. Eventually they will see the camera over their head and leave.

Best money we've ever spent on home improvement. If cops are at the door, we will know.
 
Kleanbore said:
Others say that they go to the door with gun in hand to be ready, in case the visitor turns out to be a violent criminal actor.
Click to expand...

The only time I would do this is from dusk or later. One problem I have is that my front door is half glass so to even approach it, I'm visible for at least 4-6'.
 
TacticalJanitor said:
We've had a lot of new people move into our area since Covid started. Some of them are not nice people. There is much more petty theft and related shenanigans happening in our neighborhood.

Some vagrant hopped right into my neighbors truck and started rifling through his stuff. This was 3PM on a weekday. Neighbors' wife watched him do it through the window (while neighbor was weed-eating 30 feet away).

We put cameras up all around the house. Real, wired , night vision cameras with an NVR that has it's own power backup. The cameras are all high enough that you aren't going to reach them without a 12 foot ladder, and each cam overlaps with another. I'm sure someone could figure out how to disable more than one a a time...but I did my best to make sure it wouldn't be easy.

There is one that sticks out of the house and points at the front door. It's very obvious. There is also a sign that says, "If you do not know my name, you are not welcome here.". I'm a subtle guy.

The point is that not only do we not answer the door, we don't even get off the couch to see who's there. If it's someone we don't know, we ignore them. No exceptions.

Our favorite game (the wife and I), is to bet on how long solicitors will stand there with their hands clasped in front. Waiting. We giggle loud enough that they can hear us. Eventually they will see the camera over their head and leave.

Best money we've ever spent on home improvement. If cops are at the door, we will know.
Click to expand...

If you are using a Ring camera - BE CAREFUL. I saw an article yesterday that detailed how the police are using their close association with Ring and its owner, Amazon. If you have any cameras inside, the police can access those as well, even without your permission. They just present a warrant to Ring and your privacy disappears.
 
JTHunter said:
If you are using a Ring camera - BE CAREFUL. I saw an article yesterday that detailed how the police are using their close association with Ring and its owner, Amazon. If you have any cameras inside, the police can access those as well, even without your permission. They just present a warrant to Ring and your privacy disappears.
Click to expand...

And that is all likely to be true. We didn't put any cameras in the house.

Ours is the equivalent of an old closed circuit TV system. Hard-wired and self contained.
 
This is not about how not to answer the door. This is about an incompetent law enforcement department and an egregiously poor response.
When there was no answer, they asked dispatchers to call the reporting party back and have them come to the front door.
Cops didn't wait.
Residents, knowing that they didn't call 911, responded cautiously.
Bad stuff resulted.
 
The bottom line is if I don't feel comfortable enough to open my door without a gun in hand, I'm not opening the door. Is that really that hard of a concept to grasp?

Second thing, my door is solid. There isn't any glass in it. I can't be seen from outside the house. Assuming it's your house and not a rental, change the front door if half of it is glass.

Third thing, I'm not opening my door until I know for sure who is on the other side. Answering =/= Opening. I can ask who's there from my phone. I already said I'm not opening the door until I know for sure who is on the other side.

Last thing, maybe I'm the outlier but people I don't know don't knock on my door. I can't remember the last time anyone showed up unannounced. Same rules apply, I don't know you, I don't open the door.
 
Last edited:
JTHunter said:
If you are using a Ring camera - BE CAREFUL. I saw an article yesterday that detailed how the police are using their close association with Ring and its owner, Amazon. If you have any cameras inside, the police can access those as well, even without your permission. They just present a warrant to Ring and your privacy disappears.
Click to expand...

Yep, and the reason I have this system is because there is no monthly monitoring, no cloud storage, no Wi-Fi except to your cell phone for alerts and I can talk to anyone at my front door via my phone and the camera... even when not at home.
Amazon.com: eufy security, eufyCam 2C 2-Cam Kit, Security Camera Outdoor, Wireless Home Security System with 180-Day Battery Life, HomeKit Compatibility, 1080p HD, IP67, Night Vision, No Monthly Fee : Everything Else
works for me,
jmo.
.
 
I'm armed if I'm wearing clothes. (Unless I've had to go somewhere with metal detectors)
In the last two weeks I've had people knock on the door, in the daytime, three times that I am aware of. One was a lawn service, another time was Jehovah Witness and the third was/is unknown. I know the lawn service and Jehovah Witness because they left a card or flyer. In none of those instances did I open the door. Knock-knock or ding-dong is immediately answered by my German Shepherd, "Bark Bark Bark Bark" (Translation: somebody is at the door). I do not feel compelled to open the door for uninvited or unexpected people. I don't go to their house and harass them and I feel no need to reinforce them coming to mine and doing it. Given that I'm not opening the door to be harassed by uninvited people at 11:30 AM, I'd be less likely (negative numbers) to do so at 11:30 PM since now I'm agitated that they woke me up.
I get uninvited people coming to the door in the daytime because I live in a "good area" and they may find opportunity to do business with homes here like the various lawn services, or solar panels which are repeat door knockers. Yes, despite living in a "good area" I am armed at home same as everywhere else (excepting the unhappy instance of metal detectors).
 
Unfortunate incident with bad actions from all involved.

Police at wrong address, inhabitants opening the door visibly armed.

Both unaware they had made the wrong decisions until it was too late.

A conversation through the locked door could have prevented a tragedy.
 
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