How old is this ammo? And what is this caliber??

br549arkie said:
Back in the early 1970's I bought a sporterized 7mm Mauser M93 at Walmart for I think $23.00 on sale. Couldn't find any ammo for it around here at that time except for a partial box of shells that looked like the ones you have. First time I tried to shoot it I pulled the trigger and it went click then as I started to lower the rifle KABOOM first and only hang fire I've ever had.
Click to expand...

Either you've lead a sheltered life or your dad wasn't as cheap as mine!

One of the reasons I started handloading was all the hangfires and FTFs I'd experienced with the garbage-tier surplus military ammo my dad used to buy at Woolworths and K-Mart.

He even saved the fired Berdan-primed cases figuring there must be some way to reload them. There is of course, but he'd never handloaded anything except percussion revolvers. His 7mm was a Spanish surplus Ludwig Loewe-marked 1893 Mauser purchased from Interarmco back when they were virtually giving the things away.

I sure miss the old cheapskate.

DadGunSkunk.jpg
 
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Before that, the British called the 6.5x53R Dutch Mannlicher the .256 Gibbs in sporting and target rifles.
At one time Bisley rules banned it because it was more accurate and softer kicking than .303.

George Gibbs went on to sell the .256 Gibbs Magnum in Mauser rifles. Not a 6.5x57 or 6.5x55, but related.
 
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.45Coltguy said:
I have read that the British could not bear to call it the 7x57 Mauser, so called it the .275 Rigby. Old fashioned snobbery at it's finest!:thumbup:
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The Royal Navy was so hard up for rifles at the beginning of WWI that they bought a quantity 7x57 Remington Rolling Block rifles. A typical use was by the Dover Patrol for exploding mines floating at the surface -- here's a box of ammo marked as such.

1699889392749.png

forum.cartridgecollectors.org

7x57 Mauser "for mine sinking only"

I paid a small fortune for a single “K37 7m/m” 7x57 Chilean Mauser round and this almost invisible copy of a packet label. I also found this old topic about it viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3728&p=24989&hilit=mine+sinking#p24989. Firstly, may someone post a good picture of this packet label. Secondly, did...
forum.cartridgecollectors.org forum.cartridgecollectors.org

Go to the 34 minute mark of this video for the story:

www.youtube.com

History of WWI Primer 035: French Remington Rolling Block Documentary

If you enjoy this content and want to see more, please consider supporting us at:https://www.patreon.com/CandRsenalhttps://playeur.com/c/candrsenalOr buy pri...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
I once saw at a gun show, one of W.D.M. Bell's Rigby rifles and a letter from him to Rigby, inquiring whether they had reduced the rifling twist below what his preferred 175 gr full patch bullet required when they went to a 145 gr semi-spitzer High Velocity. (The story goes that Mr Rigby would not deal in full spitzers, due to having survived being shot with an 8mm spitzer which glanced off his skull.)
 
.45Coltguy said:
I have read that the British could not bear to call it the 7x57 Mauser, so called it the .275 Rigby. Old fashioned snobbery at it's finest!
Click to expand...
And yet that didn't stop John Rigby & Co. to import rifles directly from Mauser, openly calling them "Mauser-Rigby" in the catalogues and ads, and later on, when they started making their own version of the M98 rifle, to advertise it openly as having "Mauser action"... The cartridge was known originally in GB as .275 Bore or .275 Mauser - .275 Rigby was "invented" by American gun writers who didn't know how Brits marked their calibers and came up with a mix of caliber designation and manufacturer's name. As to why do the Englishman, the lowly Britons or whatever you chose to call them, preferred to use Imperial and not the Metric system - they just did. Just like Americans BTW...

P.S. You guys still insist to call the 9mm Parabellum cartridge (later known all over the world as 9x19) wrongly as "9mm Luger", but I wouldn't call that snobbery... Misinformed yes, but not snobbery.
 
Mizar said:
And yet that didn't stop John Rigby & Co. to import rifles directly from Mauser, openly calling them "Mauser-Rigby" in the catalogues and ads, and later on, when they started making their own version of the M98 rifle, to advertise it openly as having "Mauser action"... The cartridge was known originally in GB as .275 Bore or .275 Mauser - .275 Rigby was "invented" by American gun writers who didn't know how Brits marked their calibers and came up with a mix of caliber designation and manufacturer's name. As to why do the Englishman, the lowly Britons or whatever you chose to call them, preferred to use Imperial and not the Metric system - they just did. Just like Americans BTW...

P.S. You guys still insist to call the 9mm Parabellum cartridge (later known all over the world as 9x19) wrongly as "9mm Luger", but I wouldn't call that snobbery... Misinformed yes, but not snobbery.
Click to expand...
You don't take "tongue in cheek" well I guess. Just referencing what I read regarding said cartridge in "Rifle" magazine by one of the writers. My apoligies.
 
Mizar said:
And yet that didn't stop John Rigby & Co. to import rifles directly from Mauser, openly calling them "Mauser-Rigby" in the catalogues and ads, and later on, when they started making their own version of the M98 rifle, to advertise it openly as having "Mauser action"... The cartridge was known originally in GB as .275 Bore or .275 Mauser - .275 Rigby was "invented" by American gun writers who didn't know how Brits marked their calibers and came up with a mix of caliber designation and manufacturer's name. As to why do the Englishman, the lowly Britons or whatever you chose to call them, preferred to use Imperial and not the Metric system - they just did. Just like Americans BTW...

P.S. You guys still insist to call the 9mm Parabellum cartridge (later known all over the world as 9x19) wrongly as "9mm Luger", but I wouldn't call that snobbery... Misinformed yes, but not snobbery.
Click to expand...
True. There are a lot of guns with multiple names that are “correct”, mainly due to multiple makers in multiple countries.

I had to give expert testimony in a shooting case where the shooter used a .380 pistol but had ammo from several manufacturers in the magazine. This left fired casings with several different headstamps / cartridge name designations, giving the defense an argument that there were others shooting at the suspect so it was self defense. (The guy opened fire on a crowd of teens/young adults standing in an alley outside an apartment complex.)

I broke down all of the variations in the shell casings present for the .380 ammo, while the forensic lady showed the cases all had the same pattern of markings from being fired in one gun no matter the headstamps.

We obtained a guilty verdict, one that hoodlum truly derserved.

9x17
9mm Browning Short
9mm Browning Court
9mm Short
9mm Kurz (German)
9mm Corto (Spanish & Italian)
.380 Auto Colt Pistol (ACP)
.380 Auto
.380

All are describing the same cartridge. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
Thanks for the post showing when the 22 jet came out. I was scratching my head trying to remember. I very seriously lusted for one of the Smith revolvers but with a wife and two little kids to provide for it was out of the question for me to purchase. Then it's problems surfaced and I was glad I couldn't .This is just proof that companies have been putting not well tested products on the market for many years and is not a new thing at all. I still think it would be a great mid range varmint round in the right gun. Look at the 556 and 22 TCM of today. I have a sneaky suspicion that each would have the same problem as the jet in a revolver. I say that as I have the TCM rifle and and bolt lift requires some oomph after firing and the case length grows quickly.I have shot it very little due to physicial complications but enough to find that it is an accurate round and that a case will require trimming after the first shot if reloaded.This reinforces my belief that bottle necked high intensity cartridges and revolvers will remain incompatable.
 
OK, now I'm curious. My ammunition guidebooks are all for handgun cartridges, except for the difficult-to-use (no index!) HP White headstamp book, so this is outside my comfort zone.

I've been in the camp that assumed .275 Rigby was factory terminology.

UK ammo mfg. Kynoch seems to take this either way:

1699894733466.png 1699894754916.png

Note the 7mm Mauser box is rubber-stamped "in chargers", so presumably for military sales.

A more recent production box below -- however it originated, the .275 Rigby name seems to be the accepted parlance now.

1699894772877.png

Example of an actual Rigby rifle markings:

1699894843564.png

1699895627642.png


One of Jim Corbett's favorite rifles was a Rigby in .275, but I can't recall now how he refers to the cartridge itself. Gives me an excuse to reread Maneaters of Kumaon.

1699895037212.png
www.johnrigbyandco.com

Rigby & Co. acquires revered hunter Jim Corbett’s legendary .275 Rigby rifle - John Rigby & Co.

The world’s third oldest gunmaker, John Rigby & Co., has acquired one of the most famous sportingLearn more
www.johnrigbyandco.com www.johnrigbyandco.com

Whether the designation started in the US rather than the UK, it has acquired wider international usage (this is recent Australian production):

1699895521453.png

FWIW, here's a recent piece written by Phillip Massaro -- more popular than scholarly:

www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Behind the Bullet: .275 Rigby

The .275 Rigby remains a fantastic choice for the big-game hunter, and has done it all over the course of its 130-year history.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org
 
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Dave DeLaurant said:
OK, now I'm curious. My ammunition guidebooks are all for handgun cartridges, except for the difficult-to-use (no index!) HP White headstamp book, so this is outside my comfort zone.

I've been in the camp that assumed .275 Rigby was factory terminology.

UK ammo mfg. Kynoch seems to take this either way:

View attachment 1179707View attachment 1179708

Note the 7mm Mauser box is rubber-stamped "in chargers", so presumably for military sales.

A more recent production box below -- however it originated, the .275 Rigby name has traction.

View attachment 1179709

Example of an actual Rigby rifle markings:

View attachment 1179710

View attachment 1179717


One of Jim Corbett's favorite rifles was a Rigby in .275, but I can't recall now how he refers to the cartridge itself. Gives me an excuse to reread Maneaters of Kumaon.

View attachment 1179712
www.johnrigbyandco.com

Rigby & Co. acquires revered hunter Jim Corbett’s legendary .275 Rigby rifle - John Rigby & Co.

The world’s third oldest gunmaker, John Rigby & Co., has acquired one of the most famous sportingLearn more
www.johnrigbyandco.com www.johnrigbyandco.com

Whether the designation started in the US rather than the UK, it now has international traction (this is recent Australian production):

View attachment 1179716

FWIW, here's a recent piece written by Phillip Massaro -- more popular than scholarly:

www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Behind the Bullet: .275 Rigby

The .275 Rigby remains a fantastic choice for the big-game hunter, and has done it all over the course of its 130-year history.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave DeLaurant for that. I didn't think that ".275 Rigby" was invented by American gunwriters.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
I've been in the camp that assumed .275 Rigby was factory terminology.
Click to expand...
The name just stuck - same with 9mm Luger, the alternative names for .380 ACP as mentioned by Riomouse and etc. But .275 Rigby marked ammo came a lot later - I believe that the Kynoch box in your post is of rather recent manufacture. It is my understanding, that the name .275 Rigby came to life somewhere in the 70's, from American gun writers. And I don't think that the good folks at "Rigby" had anything at all against naming a cartridge after their company, so...
 
Mizar said:
The name just stuck - same with 9mm Luger, the alternative names for .380 ACP as mentioned by Riomouse and etc. But .275 Rigby marked ammo came a lot later - I believe that the Kynoch box in your post is of rather recent manufacture. It is my understanding, that the name .275 Rigby came to life somewhere in the 70's, from American gun writers. And I don't think that the good folks at "Rigby" had anything at all against naming a cartridge after their company, so...
Click to expand...

Here's the one lesson about terminology correctness I'll never forget: on the FB Swiss Rifle Collectors forum, if you call a Swiss 1900 pistol anything but a Parabellum, you will end up covered in metaphorical doodoo. I had unwittingly mentioned that I had a Swiss Luger on my future wants list, thinking we were all friends. Boy, the folks there sure took it badly and piled on the dunce cap comments!

This despite the obvious facts that 1) George Luger designed it, 2) he personally demonstrated it in Switzerland, 3) the names are widely used interchangeably, and most significantly, 4) every single member of this forum, without exception, knew exactly which handgun I was referring to (there were 3 possibilities but I also mentioned the model year).

As for terminology in general (and for that matter, grammar), I've become considerably more tolerant of variation after taking a couple of Dr. McWhorter's excellent audio courses on linguistics.

The Great Courses

www.thegreatcourses.com www.thegreatcourses.com

The Great Courses

www.thegreatcourses.com www.thegreatcourses.com

For me, when it comes to terminology, rightness and wrongness are measured by whether the meaning is clear.

Exactness is more important when authoring a book, however -- I was just reading an otherwise excellent mystery novel that contained a reference to a Walther precision rifle in 76.2mm. Thanks to the misplaced decimal point, the villian was packing an actual artillery piece.
 
Mizar said:
@Dave DeLaurant, it was just a reply to a member quoting some gun writer that the Brits renamed the 7x57 Mauser to .275 Rigby because they didn't like the Germans very much, but this story is not true... That's it, nothing more.
Click to expand...
I never said the British "renamed" it that. They, from what I read, just implied that Rigby moniker to their liking. At that time in history, there was no love loss between the two nations. This is all that I meant. I will try to refrain from this any longer, if possible. Thank you, all.
 
Now this takes me back to the 60's. My brother hunted deer with a surplus 7x57 Mauser. We thought it was Japanese because he bought it from a WW2 vet who had been in the Pacific. He had a sword and some other Japanese trophies. Actually I think it was German. It possibly could have been German manufacture via Mexico.
 
jmorris said:
Could you post a photo of the back side? How did they get the firing pin to hit the rim and not the center?
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Me, reply # 17 above:

"In addition, inserts were available ro place in the .22 Jet chambers so you could fire regular 22. rimfires in it. If I recall correctly, the hammer had a swinging firing pin to fire either the center fire Jets or the .22 rimfires."
 
Something I'd like to comment on here. Some of us have some "back and forth" opinions on matters here. This is fine, as long as we don't get personal.
I thank the moderators/administrators for letting us posters do this. I for one, will ease up on my comments. No friction on my part guys. Thanks.
 
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