How Remington has responded to crisis-makes no sense

[Yo Mama]

I'm still a little pissed at the response I got with the 700 recall. Remington says I MUST send the whole rifle to them, causing me time and money to resight my zero. I can't just send the trigger assembly which is the only part affected, they said they literally will send it back without working on it. They will not compensate at all for the extra ammo, range fee, and time. Nothing except for shipping, and a box, thanks Remington! By the way, I was told on the phone that if they were to do this for everyone affected they would be out a lot of money,......:banghead: (doesn't matter that I am). Maybe if they fixed an 8 year old problem in the beginning they wouldn't have this problem.

Well, I'd stop there, but now we have the R51 problems. Remington has offered to give a new R51 with 2 extra magazines and a Pelican case to those affected. So maybe I'm off here, but why? If they told me to stuff it with the 700, why treat R51 owners different? They don't even have to take a scope off!

I'd like a pelican case for my time and effort with the 700, but this is not offered by Remington because they could care less in the end. I'm sorry, I have a few Remington guns, but I'd never buy one again. I had problems with my 870 Express as well that they should have fixed in production as it is a known issue, instead they let the customer deal with it (I had to get the Mossy out for Dove that year!).

Am I off here thinking the owners of 700 and R51 are being treated differently?

 

[JRH6856]

Am I off here thinking the owners of 700 and R51 are being treated differently?

The short answer is probably different product managers making the decisions. The long answer includes how many units (guns) are affected. The 700 problem, as you say, is 8 years old. R51, just a few months so there is probably a whole lot more 700s than R51s and yes, that could cost them a whole lot of money for the 700s than the R51s-- money that they would rather not spend if they don't have to.

Besides, if they treated 700 and R51 owners the same, you would still have to re-zero when you got the new gun

 

[Oldman1151]

I'm still a little pissed at the response I got with the 700 recall. Remington says I MUST send the whole rifle to them, causing me time and money to resight my zero. I can't just send the trigger assembly which is the only part affected, they said they literally will send it back without working on it. They will not compensate at all for the extra ammo, range fee, and time. Nothing except for shipping, and a box, thanks Remington! By the way, I was told on the phone that if they were to do this for everyone affected they would be out a lot of money,......:banghead: (doesn't matter that I am). Maybe if they fixed an 8 year old problem in the beginning they wouldn't have this problem.

Well, I'd stop there, but now we have the R51 problems. Remington has offered to give a new R51 with 2 extra magazines and a Pelican case to those affected. So maybe I'm off here, but why? If they told me to stuff it with the 700, why treat R51 owners different? They don't even have to take a scope off!

I'd like a pelican case for my time and effort with the 700, but this is not offered by Remington because they could care less in the end. I'm sorry, I have a few Remington guns, but I'd never buy one again. I had problems with my 870 Express as well that they should have fixed in production as it is a known issue, instead they let the customer deal with it (I had to get the Mossy out for Dove that year!).

Am I off here thinking the owners of 700 and R51 are being treated differently?

At least they are taking care of both issues. Can you imagine the complaints if they would not be taking care of and paying the shipping? Two totally different guns and different problems.

 

[Tommygunn]

I just sent my R-51 back to Remington this past week; tracking indicates it arrived Froday Oct 10th.
I also own a 700 but it an older one and not recalled. It is disturbing to me that a rifle like that, that's been in production since Abe Lincoln was a toddler (just kiddin') has a recall --you'd think they would know how to make a good, fool-proof trigger by now!!!!
I agree with the above comments; probably different recall managers, and yes, there are bound to be more 700 owners than R-51 at this point.
There is an expense to what they're offering R51 people and you. I sympathize as I don't like being without a gun .... as for re-zeroing I understand it is a bother but don't we all have to do it periodically just to be sure where the rifle prints?
Maybe the solution is to stick with brands like Sako or Tikka. Or Ruger?
Remington is a nice old traditional American name .... but I am beginning to become a little bit leery. Maybe they're TOO old...
Nothing lasts forevr.
Best of luck with your rifle.

 

[MICHAEL T]

What going to take 3 or 4 rounds to rezero . I think your being a little overboard.

 

[SHOOTER1969]

Look what Remington did to Marlin. Marlins made by Remington are pure GARBAGE!

 

[MotorCraft]

I have been boycotting Remington and Olin Corporation for years.

 

[Yo Mama]

What going to take 3 or 4 rounds to rezero . I think your being a little overboard.

I wish I was that good! Normally it's a box for me to be happy and on bullseye.

At least they are taking care of both issues.

but I agree with:

It is disturbing to me that a rifle like that, that's been in production since Abe Lincoln was a toddler (just kiddin') has a recall --you'd think they would know how to make a good, fool-proof trigger by now!!!!

Why were there issues to begin with? It's an old design, and to go 8 years with a new design after the Walker trigger issues doesn't make sense to me. I honestly feel like Remington is making the customer pay for their mistakes.

that could cost them a whole lot of money for the 700s than the R51s-- money that they would rather not spend if they don't have to.

Exactly! I agree, this would really hurt them financially. But honestly that may teach them not to release faulty firearms. It's exactly why we fine people who break the law, to teach them not to do it again.

GM recalled the Chevy Malibu, and paid for a rental for those affected. It cost them around 1000 dollars a month for the rental fees, and they paid (quietly, but they paid). GM, already cash strapped did the right thing.

 

[JRH6856]

Exactly! I agree, this would really hurt them financially. But honestly that may teach them not to release faulty firearms. It's exactly why we fine people who break the law, to teach them not to do it again.

GM recalled the Chevy Malibu, and paid for a rental for those affected. It cost them around 1000 dollars a month for the rental fees, and they paid (quietly, but they paid). GM, already cash strapped did the right thing.

If Remington were doing this as a result of a court order, then the fine might indeed be much higher. But this is a voluntary action. Perhaps designed to give the appearance of trying to do the right thing while keeping the negative financial impact as low as possible.

GM did the same thing. Maybe it cost them $1000 dollars which appears to be a substantial amount, but the cars they sell cost customers substantially more than the price of a rifle.

Both actions are calculated to try to stave off legal action form either the govt. or consumers that could result in substantially higher fines than the costs they are voluntarily incurring.

Major corporations have consistently shown that they will usually follow what a cost/benefit analysis indicates is the best course. If it shows that it is more cost effective to make and repair defective products than make them right in the first place, that is what they will do. And when the cost of judgement/fine can be spread across a large volume of product, such costs indeed be less per unit than the cost of doing it right the first time. Most people and companies do not learn from their mistakes, they just learn from the mistake of getting caught.

 

[Sunray]

"...I can't just send the trigger assembly..." Screams liability issue to me. Mind you, that'd be the whole purpose of a recall. You or your's get hurt using the thing and suing costs a lot more than fixing a part.
Not exactly a crisis either.

 

[barnbwt]

"Am I off here thinking the owners of 700 and R51 are being treated differently?"

You're joking, right? You are comparing an exceptionally well proven, and exceptionally reliable rifle with a trigger that is perfectly safe for the vast, vast majority of shooters, to a near-abortion of a product rollout with a failure rate likely measured in the dozens of percents.

And let's not get into the fact that Remington has offered not a single concrete sign they will actually replace anyone's pistol at this point --they're still working on 'releasing the new pistols in October' (how's that goin', btw?). Not a single update since the return announcement, and I think it's for a pretty obvious reason.

At least you'll eventually get your rifle back (some have been returned already, I hear). And why would you lose your zero? They're screwing with the trigger pack, not the scope or sights you have up top; not like they're pulling the barrel off. It's not like you'll be obligated to burn through hundreds of rounds of ammo to both prove the gun is reliable, and that it is likely to remain reliable like the R51 folks will, either.

If Remington was smart or cared (neither is the case, I'm convinced) they would give the R51 folks an IWB holster and a laser sight (both currently collecting dust on shelves) instead of a comically large pistol case (for a concealed-carry gun --really?), and the rifle owners a rifle case/bipod/rest or something similar for their trouble.

TCB

 

[Yo Mama]

You are comparing an exceptionally well proven, and exceptionally reliable rifle with a trigger that is perfectly safe for the vast, vast majority of shooters, to a near-abortion of a product rollout with a failure rate likely measured in the dozens of percents.

ha, you got me. You have a great point. Honestly until you said that I thought the R51 owners were not being treated as poorly (because of the 2 magazines and case), but I didn't realize the replacement guns have not been sent even. I'd be much more pissed now if I were a R51 owner.

And why would you lose your zero? They're screwing with the trigger pack, not the scope or sights you have up top; not like they're pulling the barrel off.

Because they force me to remove the scope prior to shipping (which I would anyway). Now I have to remount, and sight in.

If Remington was smart or cared (neither is the case, I'm convinced) they would give the R51 folks an IWB holster and a laser sight (both currently collecting dust on shelves) instead of a comically large pistol case (for a concealed-carry gun --really?), and the rifle owners a rifle case/bipod/rest or something similar for their trouble.

FULLY 100 PERCENT AGREE!

 

[JRH6856]

If Remington was smart or cared (neither is the case, I'm convinced) they would give the R51 folks an IWB holster and a laser sight (both currently collecting dust on shelves) instead of a comically large pistol case (for a concealed-carry gun --really?), and the rifle owners a rifle case/bipod/rest or something similar for their trouble.

Well, the extra mags aren't bad, but I would rather have the holster than the case. I've never had much use for laser sights but I guess I'd take a free one instead of the mags.

 

[CaptHank]

"Am I off here thinking the owners of 700 and R51 are being treated differently?"

You're joking, right? You are comparing an exceptionally well proven, and exceptionally reliable rifle with a trigger that is perfectly safe for the vast, vast majority of shooters, to a near-abortion of a product rollout with a failure rate likely measured in the dozens of percents.

And let's not get into the fact that Remington has offered not a single concrete sign they will actually replace anyone's pistol at this point --they're still working on 'releasing the new pistols in October' (how's that goin', btw?). Not a single update since the return announcement, and I think it's for a pretty obvious reason.

At least you'll eventually get your rifle back (some have been returned already, I hear). And why would you lose your zero? They're screwing with the trigger pack, not the scope or sights you have up top; not like they're pulling the barrel off. It's not like you'll be obligated to burn through hundreds of rounds of ammo to both prove the gun is reliable, and that it is likely to remain reliable like the R51 folks will, either.

If Remington was smart or cared (neither is the case, I'm convinced) they would give the R51 folks an IWB holster and a laser sight (both currently collecting dust on shelves) instead of a comically large pistol case (for a concealed-carry gun --really?), and the rifle owners a rifle case/bipod/rest or something similar for their trouble.

TCB

You have to remove scope, rings and any after market stock, before sending it back. My trigger was set for 2.5#'s, came back over 5#'s. I had to re-install the Choate Varmint Stock, rings, scope and re-zero.

I wasn't a Happy Camper!

 

[MountainBear]

I see the fuss over the r51. It seems to have been a cluster from the start. But people bitching about the 700 make it seem like Remington sold a gun with a known malfunction. As I understand it, they caused it to malfunction in their R&D department. So they voluntarily agreed to check it and/or fix it instead of just sweeping it under the rug. And now you want them to send you over $100 in free items to make up for it? I mean I'm sorry you had to adjust an allen screw to get your weight down and put a stock and scope back on and go shooting again. I know that is usually something us gun guys don't usually do anyway.

Not only did I have to send guns back for the recall, but I had several customers projects put on hold as I couldn't get the Rem 700 actions they requested. So I do have a dog in this fight, and I guess I'm just not part of the entitlement generation, because that's what some people are sounding like. Thanks for finding a potential issue and acting responsibility, now give me a free $150 case and ammo...

 

[CaptHank]

One more thing, they didn't clean the rifle before sending it back.

 

[JRH6856]

One more thing, they didn't clean the rifle before sending it back.

If they had cleaned it, would you be complaining they hadn't test fired ti? I know some who would.

 

[jerkface11]

Maybe they should have learned their lesson from their last huge trigger recall.

 

[jcwit]

Why not just spend a few bucks and put an aftermarket trigger assembly on it.

I put a Rifle Basix on my 700 and am completely satisfied. Put it on myself with no problems.

 

[HexHead]

Or you could use this as an excuse to upgrade the trigger to something nicer, not deal with the recall and have a better shooting rifle in the end.

 

[Onmilo]

Is it just me or is everything Cerberus sticks their dirty, greedy fingers in destined to go south fast???

 

[JRH6856]

Is it just me or is everything Cerberus sticks their dirty, greedy fingers in destined to go south fast???

Well, Cerberus is the dog that guards the gates of Hades/Hell. And Hell is the place that has the sign out front: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

 

[ourichie]

I'm still waiting on my R51 to come back. Not a word from Remington and it is really starting to piss me off. I dont think anyone has received their replacement yet which tells me that they still have no idea. They said october which tells me that the first ons will probably start going out on the 31st

 

[JRH6856]

They said october which tells me that the first ons will probably start going out on the 31st

Halloween would be an appropriate day to bring it back from the dead, don't you think?

 

[Onmilo]

I am almost willing to bet you R51 owners will be recieving a cash voucher "Towards your next purchase of a Remington Made Firearm" than an actual replacement pistol and the amount won't include the price of magazines or a Pelican case either,,,,