BMC
Member
CZguy:
Does that Remington have any stain or just the MAO?
Does that Remington have any stain or just the MAO?
How to do the World's best oil finish
- Thread starter dfariswheel
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Mackinac76
Member
Minwax Antique Oil follow-up post
This is an update top a few posts I made a few weeks ago on refinishing my Rem 700 stock with Minwax Antique Oil. In general, I'm pleased with the results, although I grossly underestimated the amount of time and work involved, and I'm still not finished. I have followed the procedure outlined by dfarriswheel at the start of this thread. I have applied 4 coats of the filler stage and 8 coats that are allowed to dry and then get steel-wooled off.
I do have two comments/questions.
1. I estimate that about 95 % of the grain is filled at this stage and the remaining 5 % will never be filled. I seem to have reached the point of diminishing returns. I think the stock looks great (or at least as good as this particular piece of walnut can look). Is is common to have some elusive grain that cannot be filled?
2. I have noted from the earliest stages of finishing the final 8 coats, that fingerprints are easily left on the bare wood, and, it's very difficult to wipe them clean without using steel wool. Each time, I have made sure that the finish was completely dry and this happens only after the dried finish is completely steel wooled from the stock. I've had other individuals also leave prints just to assure myself that I don't have some unusual sweat or oils on my fingertips. Is this typical?
Please don't discount that I maybe I'm being anal about this. Maybe I'm just too fussy.
This is an update top a few posts I made a few weeks ago on refinishing my Rem 700 stock with Minwax Antique Oil. In general, I'm pleased with the results, although I grossly underestimated the amount of time and work involved, and I'm still not finished. I have followed the procedure outlined by dfarriswheel at the start of this thread. I have applied 4 coats of the filler stage and 8 coats that are allowed to dry and then get steel-wooled off.
I do have two comments/questions.
1. I estimate that about 95 % of the grain is filled at this stage and the remaining 5 % will never be filled. I seem to have reached the point of diminishing returns. I think the stock looks great (or at least as good as this particular piece of walnut can look). Is is common to have some elusive grain that cannot be filled?
2. I have noted from the earliest stages of finishing the final 8 coats, that fingerprints are easily left on the bare wood, and, it's very difficult to wipe them clean without using steel wool. Each time, I have made sure that the finish was completely dry and this happens only after the dried finish is completely steel wooled from the stock. I've had other individuals also leave prints just to assure myself that I don't have some unusual sweat or oils on my fingertips. Is this typical?
Please don't discount that I maybe I'm being anal about this. Maybe I'm just too fussy.
dfariswheel
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On some wood there does seem to be some grain that just WILL NOT fill.
I've got a thin "streak" of open grain on my Marlin that simply refused to fill.
Whether this is some type of contamination, or just something about the wood I don't know.
I've seen it on several other walnut stocks. In each case, the wood had been previously finished with an oil finish.
As for the finger prints, this is something you see on extremely smooth surfaces.
I recommend giving the finished wood a good buffing with NEW, CLEAN burlap.
Go to the fabric store and buy a yard or 1/2 yard.
Cut it up and make a 3 or 4 layer buffing pad.
Use that to briskly buff the wood, being careful not to "burn" or wear through the surface on sharp corners or edges.
Then, apply a couple of coats of Johnson's Paste Wax.
Allow the wax to dry 20 minutes after application before buffing it off with a soft cloth.
This will protect the wood, but like all slick surfaces, it may show fingerprints.
To maintain, just use wax.
I've got a thin "streak" of open grain on my Marlin that simply refused to fill.
Whether this is some type of contamination, or just something about the wood I don't know.
I've seen it on several other walnut stocks. In each case, the wood had been previously finished with an oil finish.
As for the finger prints, this is something you see on extremely smooth surfaces.
I recommend giving the finished wood a good buffing with NEW, CLEAN burlap.
Go to the fabric store and buy a yard or 1/2 yard.
Cut it up and make a 3 or 4 layer buffing pad.
Use that to briskly buff the wood, being careful not to "burn" or wear through the surface on sharp corners or edges.
Then, apply a couple of coats of Johnson's Paste Wax.
Allow the wax to dry 20 minutes after application before buffing it off with a soft cloth.
This will protect the wood, but like all slick surfaces, it may show fingerprints.
To maintain, just use wax.
Mackinac76
Member
Thanks, dfariswheel for the sound advice. I was wondering whether a wax coating would help. I'll finish soon and head to the burlap polishing stage.
As I said, I'm pretty happy with the finish and it does look much better than the original.
As I said, I'm pretty happy with the finish and it does look much better than the original.
BMC
Member
dfariswheel, are you out there?
Can you clarify something for me?
First three coats (sealer) were sponged on, wait 5 - 10 minutes, wiped off. Left to dry, came back the next day and repeated. Fourth coat was left on overnight (dried just fine), bronze wooled off. Here's where I need some help. Twice I have bronze wooled it down so there is absolutely no gloss, everything is matt finish. Should i be leaving the "shinies" in the "small scratches" that you refer to as open grain? I put the third coat on this morning and it is already dry to the touch. I think I'll wait until tomorrow to take it off just to make sure it is dry.
dfariswheel said:
Can you clarify something for me?
First three coats (sealer) were sponged on, wait 5 - 10 minutes, wiped off. Left to dry, came back the next day and repeated. Fourth coat was left on overnight (dried just fine), bronze wooled off. Here's where I need some help. Twice I have bronze wooled it down so there is absolutely no gloss, everything is matt finish. Should i be leaving the "shinies" in the "small scratches" that you refer to as open grain? I put the third coat on this morning and it is already dry to the touch. I think I'll wait until tomorrow to take it off just to make sure it is dry.
dfariswheel
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Unless you actually sand it down, the "shinnies" will still be in the wood grain.
This is normal, just keep applying coats until the wood grain fills all the way up.
As long as you can see the shinnies, the wood grain isn't full. Keep working.
As the wood fills up, the Minwax will dry faster and faster, and you can apply coats more often
This is normal, just keep applying coats until the wood grain fills all the way up.
As long as you can see the shinnies, the wood grain isn't full. Keep working.
As the wood fills up, the Minwax will dry faster and faster, and you can apply coats more often
BMC
Member
More pics of a Minwax Antique Oil Finish
Before
Some afters
Thanks dfariswheel for your time and experience and to others for their patience. It took several filler coats (ten), just kept going until 99% of the grain looked filled.
Before
Some afters
Thanks dfariswheel for your time and experience and to others for their patience. It took several filler coats (ten), just kept going until 99% of the grain looked filled.
BMC
Member
Jason G:
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. If that spelling is correct, I don't know the term.
mrmeval
Member
I get more hits with spalted.
http://www.langcaster.com/Lancaster.Images/LT15-BIG.jpg
Search for spalted in this page and look at the 1911 grips
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=113955&page=3
Wood with fungal or bacterial rot, those are killed and the wood stabilized as it can be weak. It looks like that stock my qualify though it may have happened after it was placed on the gun.
http://www.langcaster.com/Lancaster.Images/LT15-BIG.jpg
Search for spalted in this page and look at the 1911 grips
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=113955&page=3
Wood with fungal or bacterial rot, those are killed and the wood stabilized as it can be weak. It looks like that stock my qualify though it may have happened after it was placed on the gun.
LiquidTension
Member
Nah, he just ran out of stain 
I'm going through my second refinishing project now. First I did was a Savage 85A and it turned out really nice. Now I'm doing my Yugo SKS.
I'm going through my second refinishing project now. First I did was a Savage 85A and it turned out really nice. Now I'm doing my Yugo SKS.
Dfariswheel
Sir, I missed the pictures of your stofk refinish with the Min wax. I wonder if you would tell me what the finished product looks like. Does it give it a shiny, glossy finish. I do have your instructions for doing it, but have no idea what it looks like. I just got an old 39A and need to refinish the stock. Thank you. James
Sir, I missed the pictures of your stofk refinish with the Min wax. I wonder if you would tell me what the finished product looks like. Does it give it a shiny, glossy finish. I do have your instructions for doing it, but have no idea what it looks like. I just got an old 39A and need to refinish the stock. Thank you. James
dfariswheel
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Check page two of this discussion, the pictures are there.
The finish can be either a gloss or the famous "eggshell" luster oil finishes are known for.
If you leave a surface coat of the Minwax on, it will have a gloss look.
Steel wool it off and buff with burlap gives the eggshell luster as shown in the photos on page two.
The finish can be either a gloss or the famous "eggshell" luster oil finishes are known for.
If you leave a surface coat of the Minwax on, it will have a gloss look.
Steel wool it off and buff with burlap gives the eggshell luster as shown in the photos on page two.
HankB
Member
Old thread . . .
The finish looks good, but I'm not convinced this statement is accurate:
When something like the Minwax product says "oil finish" . . . the word "finish" is generally an indicator that the stuff has something other than solvent and oil in it - usually varnish or polyurethane or something. Yes, it probably DOES have oil (tung or linseed) in some percentange, but as good as it looks, it's not genuinely a "real" oil finish.
Someone brought up the presence of cobalt compounds . . . these are drying agents, which helps the finish to, well, dry faster. When I refinish a stock, most often with pure tung oil, I usually add a bit myself - you can get it at Home Depot where it's sold as as "japan drier."
The finish looks good, but I'm not convinced this statement is accurate:
When something like the Minwax product says "oil finish" . . . the word "finish" is generally an indicator that the stuff has something other than solvent and oil in it - usually varnish or polyurethane or something. Yes, it probably DOES have oil (tung or linseed) in some percentange, but as good as it looks, it's not genuinely a "real" oil finish.
Someone brought up the presence of cobalt compounds . . . these are drying agents, which helps the finish to, well, dry faster. When I refinish a stock, most often with pure tung oil, I usually add a bit myself - you can get it at Home Depot where it's sold as as "japan drier."
win71
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- 694
My experience too
I believe "oil" finish is just that. Tung oil is a naturally drying oil. Boiled linseed, or unboiled for that matter, is also somewhat of a drying oil. Most anything labeled "Oil Finish" is a combination of oil and some type of dryers. Varnish is an example of partial oil finish with a lot of dryers.
Tung oil dries harder than linseed oil. I have used pure tung oil on a re-finish job on an old Parker shotgun. The goal being to get the stock as close to the same as the forend which due to metal and wood ware could not be properly refinished. It took about 13 coats, all were cut 50% with turpentine.
An old favorite with furniture makers was 1 part tung oil, 1 part varnish, and 1 part turpentine. I haven't tried it on gunstocks yet but I imagine it would be similar to slow drying varnish.
I believe "oil" finish is just that. Tung oil is a naturally drying oil. Boiled linseed, or unboiled for that matter, is also somewhat of a drying oil. Most anything labeled "Oil Finish" is a combination of oil and some type of dryers. Varnish is an example of partial oil finish with a lot of dryers.
Tung oil dries harder than linseed oil. I have used pure tung oil on a re-finish job on an old Parker shotgun. The goal being to get the stock as close to the same as the forend which due to metal and wood ware could not be properly refinished. It took about 13 coats, all were cut 50% with turpentine.
An old favorite with furniture makers was 1 part tung oil, 1 part varnish, and 1 part turpentine. I haven't tried it on gunstocks yet but I imagine it would be similar to slow drying varnish.
HankB
Member
Varnish typically is comprised of some sort of resin and a solvent. (Turpentine, mineral spirits, etc.)
win71
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Actually you've hit it almost right on the head. I inadvertently used the term "driers" to mean
anything that aided drying, whether by evaporation or chemical / polymerization.
A varnish composition suitable for producing a liquid crystal aligning film
having a thickness of several tens to one hundred nanometers having 1 to
10% by weight of polyamic acid or soluble polyimide, and 90 to 99% by
weight of a solvent which comprises 5 to 80% by weight of at least one
compound selected from a group of solvent components A and 20 to 95% by
weight of at least one compound selected from a group consisting of
component B and component C where the group of solvent components A
consists of N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone and dimethylimidazolidinone and the
component B is alkyl lactate, and the component C is
R1-O(C3H.sub.6 O)nH (I)
where n is 1 or 2, R1 is an alkyl group having 4 carbon atoms when n
is 1, and R1 is an alkyl group having 1 to 4 carbon atoms when n is
2, is disclosed.
Thanks for helping clear that up. As I get older I seem to confuse myself by either thinking too much or not enough.........
Hmmmm, I'm about to start working on refinishing my Mosin 91/30 wood, has anybody done this to one of those? Mine's kinda blondish-looking, any tips on removing the old finish and cosmoline? I read the earlier tip, what's "whiting"? Any ideas about what might be a better-looking stain for this?
In answer to the earlier question about whiting.
Whiting
Powdered and washed white chalk (calcium carbonate), used in putty, metal polish, whitewash and sometimes added to paint to improve the paint's opacity.
Look for it at a paint store or a stained glass store. It is also used to soak up putty oils when installing stained glass using lead came. Seems to end up everywhere (fine dust) when you use it.
Also, laminated stocks are still wood. If the old finish is removed for some reason, I see no reason this would not work.
Whiting
Powdered and washed white chalk (calcium carbonate), used in putty, metal polish, whitewash and sometimes added to paint to improve the paint's opacity.
Look for it at a paint store or a stained glass store. It is also used to soak up putty oils when installing stained glass using lead came. Seems to end up everywhere (fine dust) when you use it.
Also, laminated stocks are still wood. If the old finish is removed for some reason, I see no reason this would not work.
HankB
Member
Looks like it was taken from the specification of a patent - are you the inventor?
p_jackson
Member
I signed up for this forum so I could take the time to thank dfariswheel for his instruction how to finish a stock. I used my 30+ year old pellet gun stock and was simply amazed at the end result. Hard as rock, this finish survived a 3 foot fall onto concrete with NO detectable harm. Great thread-should be a sticky.
Thanks again-Pete
Thanks again-Pete
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