How to eliminate wrist break/flinch.

[ratt_finkel]

I'm not ashamed to admit that I have developed a serious flinch and consistent wrist breaking (usually up) while firing handguns. I've spent a lot of time reading articles on how to identify a flinch. But very little good information on how to actually cure or get rid of it.

I already dry fire. And I have no problem doing it in the living room, bedroom, or even at the range. But as soon as a loaded mag is inserted I turn my flinch back on. Now granted, I am still able to put 8/10 shots in a 8" target at 25 yards. I know that my shooting performance is being hindered by this wrist break.

The general consensus is to shoot .22 revolvers or semi-autos to help overcome the natural reaction to an explosion right in front of your face. I always double up on ear protection as well, so that shouldn't be an issue.

I've tried the .22 a little, but have found I flinch just as bad with that as my 9mm. Really anxious to kick this thing for good!

Thanks for the help in advance THR.

 

[Hokkmike]

I think the key is just practice, practice, practice.

Get some one who can show you proper technique so you don't practice wrong and learn bad habits.

I have switched to a .32 magnum and .380 as standard calibers. This in an effort to minimize excessive recoil leading to flinching.

I used to carry a light weight .40. It was, I am sure, an excellent defensive choice, but a a horror to shoot.

 

[ATLDave]

I am a very flinchy person (takes me about 10 minutes to get contact lenses into my eyes), so I have been there. I also agree that most advice is geared towards diagnosing or proving a flinch, or fixing bad trigger control; none of that stuff actually fixes a deeply-ingrained flinch. Here's what worked for me:

Understand that the flinch begins with the eyes. The chances are really good that your eyes are closed when the gun goes off. And that means you can't see the sights move. You likely keep the sights aligned and on-target until you close your eyes, at which point they jump in whatever direction you flinch (mine was low and left, but I don't think the direction really matters for purposes of breaking the habit).

So, quit worrying about anything else but the eyes. Go to the range with a .22. Do not put up a target. Just point the gun at the backstop/berm. Fire the gun. Watch the gun go off. See as much as you can see. See if you can see the muzzle flash. See if you can see the brass eject. See if you can see the slide move. See if you can see the sights lift. Watch the gun go off. It's important to use a .22 for this, not only because the blast (which is the source of the flinch far more than the recoil) is less, but because the gun moves less and less quickly. See as much as you can. Don't even think about putting up a target until you can really see the gun going off.

It may take quite a while. And, if your flinch is as bad/deep as mine, then you'll need to repeat this several times over many days. And you may periodically need to go back and re-do it, especially if you don't shoot for a while.

But when you can start seeing the gun go off, the flinch will go away very quickly on its own. Then you can gradually move up the power scale. Don't rush it. Go to .38spl wadcutters in a full-size revolver, or soft 9mm in a service-sized pistol. If the flinch comes back, alternate with the .22. Once the flinch is going away, try to hit something small, but at very short range. (Put up a 1" circle sticker and try to shoot it completely out from 15 feet. That will get you to really start looking at the front sight. Shooting out a 1" sticker is how I start most range sessions.) You can't do it with your eyes closed, so it will reinforce keeping your eyes open through the shot.

The only problem with this approach is that you may go through hundreds of rounds of .22lr in the first session or two (I used an entire 500 round bulk pack on the first day I tried it). And that's tough to come by these days. But it works. It really, really does.

 

[ATLDave]

Get some one who can show you proper technique so you don't practice wrong and learn bad habits.

For a true flinch, it's not really a "technique" thing. The flinch is involuntary. More instruction is like telling someone not to blink their eyes when something touches their eyeball. The flinch is coming from the lizard brain, not the frontal lobe. It's not a conscious decision, and being told not to flinch won't solve it. The OP already knows not to flinch, he just can't follow the instructions. He's got to figure out how to reprogram his brain so that it doesn't want to flinch.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

My Wife is a small person and in our recent return to shooting sports has developed a flinch as well. Mostly from shooting things that hurt her (a little arthritis in the hands) and were just too smacky for a relearning beginner.

Dry firing has helped her a lot. 10 minutes twice a day with the very guns that smacked her which would be her Colt Officers ACP and Ruger LCR. Making sure they are unloaded she practices presenting the gun and slowly squeezing the trigger while maintaining perfect sight alignment and being very conscious of grip, trigger finger placement and trigger control.

She started by denying she was flinching until I loaded her revolver with only 4 rounds and she consistently moved the gun (a lot) when it fell on an empty chamber. She's making good progress by retraining trigger control and grip and sight alignment. Now my job is to put it back on the range with ammunition that won't smack her so hard until she regains confidence in live fire.

VooDoo

 

[TestPilot]

Many people suggest 22, mixing in dummy rounds, or dry fire for that. But, that is the wrong approach.

Your subconscious mind is doing the flinch. Dry fire or 22LR, or even the mixed in dummy rounds, only tricks your mind to think that there will be no recoil, blast, and noise.

The problem is that your subconscious mind deserve respect. You may not be able to reason with your subsconscious mind, but that does not mean your subsconscious mind is an idiot.

It is only a matter of time before your subsconscious mind will find out that you were only trying to trick it, then you are right back to flinching.

In order to reduce subconscious mind causing flinching, you need to be straight with your subcosciuos mind. You neet to tell it that you expect to hold the aim steady when there WILL be a recoil, WILL be noise, and WILL be blast.

That means training forcing yourself to be steady under the recoil of full power ammo. I find that to be the only permanent solution.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Test, I agree with that and need to work on it myself. Thanks.

 

[David E]

A pic of your technique would help.

I presume you're using adequate ear protection....

The post about "seeing" is important.

Fire a few rounds of .357 or .44 if available. Then try your 9mm

And grip the gun HARDER with your SUPPORT hand, like 70/30

 

[ATLDave]

Fire a few rounds of .357 or .44 if available. Then try your 9mm

This is also a valuable insight. Going down the power scale helps you learn to see more (see my post above). Going up builds trust that the recoil and blast won't physically harm you.

 

[ATLDave]

Your subconscious mind is doing the flinch. Dry fire or 22LR, or even the mixed in dummy rounds, only tricks your mind to think that there will be no recoil, blast, and noise....
It is only a matter of time before your subsconscious mind will find out that you were only trying to trick it, then you are right back to flinching.

That was very much NOT my experience. I tried telling myself not to flinch for a long time. It did nothing. Working with a .22, then gradually adding power, worked. I'm not saying your views are wrong, just that they are not universally applicable.

None of it is about "tricking" your subconscious mind. First, it's about giving your subconscious mind something else to do (watching). While it's doing that, it's also learning that you aren't going to get hurt if your eyes are open when the gun goes off. Far from "tricking" your mind, the point is teaching your subconscious mind to trust. And the trust is well-placed, since you aren't going to be hurt. It's the opposite of trickery.

I do, however, agree that dry-fire won't cure a flinch (though it does wonders for bad trigger control - but that's a separate issue), and that dummy rounds merely diagnose/reveal a flinch, rather than do anything to fix it.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Behavior modification. Make it harder to maintain the flinch than to keep it. Try taking a buddy to the range. When you flinch, have him punch you in the shoulder or whip you with a stick. LOL... Only somewhat kidding. You could run a lap, or sprint 100 yards every time you flinch. Worth a shot! This can serve to make the flinch move from involuntary to voluntary, increasing your autonomy and opening channels to eliminating it.

 

[BCRider]

In my experience there are four things that can lead to what you're getting.

1. Lack of follow through on the trigger. Instead you're pulling to the BANG! and then letting go with a jerky spasm.
2. Snatching at the trigger instead of a smooth and steady pressure buildup.
3. Overthinking the issue of gun support. Don't try to fight the recoil. And don't try to overanalyze it. Just let it happen with a dead neutral hold.
4. Holding on for dear life. Too strong a grip makes it hard to hold the gun steady and achieve the isolation from trigger finger to the rest of your grip.

I've helped out both myself, I was a terrible flincher in my early days, and others by having them focus on a proper and complete trigger pull follow through. The idea being to pull the trigger to the rear travel limit and HOLD IT THERE!. Do not just pull to the point of the big BANG! and then let go. Instead you want to follow through by pulling the trigger smoothly to the rear and holding it there through all the noise, smoke and jumping around. Only when the big show is over and the gun is again resting in your steady hands should you then ease off the pressure and let the trigger move ahead. As you do you'll feel the reset click and you can reverse and pull for the next shot.

Another hint on the trigger pull. Do not clutch at the trigger like it's a mouse button or a light switch. And do not pre-pressure the trigger to stage it and then snap off the last bit. Instead you want to smoothly and consistently build up pressure on the trigger until it stops at the rear travel limit. Don't think of moving the trigger, just build up your finger pressure smoothly and let the trigger moves as and when it wishes in response to the pressure. On striker fired guns and double action triggers this is actually pretty easy to do. On single action triggers that stay in place then jump at the break it's a bit tougher. But the key is to still build the pressure and let the break surprise you. If you KNOW it's going to shoot then you're still staging or snapping at the trigger. Both are very bad for attaining the right mental detachment from the BANG! And as is so often written the key to accuracy is that the actual shot should surprise you each and every time.

Don't try to time and control the recoil. You'll lose every time and your groups end up looking like spray from a plant mister. If you even THINK that you can hold back the recoil you will flinch.

You're probably only the second person I've ever heard of that flinches UPWARDS. The other is someone I shoot with. I have no idea what is going through either of your minds in terms of this lift up thing other than perhaps it's a reverse flinch that is trying to compensate for knowing that your tendency is to pull down. So you overcompensate and lift up? I just don't know.

Instead work at simply being a big dumb structure that holds the gun. No bear trap like antics to try to fight the recoil. Just a non moving support much like a tripod used with a camera. Forget about any sort of conscious effort to fight the recoil. You'll never get it right anyway. Instead just tension up and don't move ANYTHING other than your trigger finger. Not so much as an eyelash other than that one finger. A steady support combined with a smooth build on the trigger and the commitment to holding the trigger back throughout the recoil event will produce the sort of surprise break that is needed to achieve consistent shot releases that leads to tighter groupings.

Another issue of supporting the gun that I've seen is folks with a death grip. If you hold the gun TOO hard to where you're white knuckling it then it also makes it tough to separate your trigger finger movement from the rest of your muscles. If in doubt ease up a little and try again. Keep easing up until the gun actually moves around in your grip pressure and requires re-positioning. At that point you're TOO loose and need to grip a little harder back to where it doesn't move around even with multiple shots.

 

[tuj]

ball and dummy drills. have a friend load a mag with a random mix of snap caps and live rounds. see if you finch when the gun dry-fires.

 

[md2lgyk]

For a true flinch, it's not really a "technique" thing. The flinch is involuntary.

This is what I was told when I first started shooting bullseye years ago. The "cure" is to have a trigger pull such that you don't know exactly when the gun will fire. If you can do that, any flinching will be after the fact and won't matter.

 

[ratt_finkel]

ATLdave: I really like your idea. And will give that an honest try. Since I don't own a .22 handgun. What should I practice with? (rental)

In order to reduce subconscious mind causing flinching, you need to be straight with your subcosciuos mind. You neet to tell it that you expect to hold the aim steady when there WILL be a recoil, WILL be noise, and WILL be blast.

I have tried this. And I am still able to get decent accuracy even out to 25 yards. But I as much as I try to will myself past the flinch it hasn't worked.

Tuj:

ball and dummy drills. have a friend load a mag with a random mix of snap caps and live rounds. see if you finch when the gun dry-fires.

I already know I have a flinch. If I know the gun is loaded I will flinch, if it's a mix I will still flinch. Trying to figure how to eliminate it, not identify it. But thank you.

BCrider:

In my experience there are four things that can lead to what you're getting.

Lack of follow through on the trigger. Instead you're pulling to the BANG! and then letting go with a jerky spasm.
Snatching at the trigger instead of a smooth and steady pressure buildup.
Overthinking the issue of gun support. Don't try to fight the recoil. And don't try to overanalyze it. Just let it happen with a dead neutral hold.
Holding on for dear life. Too strong a grip makes it hard to hold the gun steady and achieve the isolation from trigger finger to the rest of your grip.

I've helped out both myself, I was a terrible flincher in my early days, and others by having them focus on a proper and complete trigger pull follow through. The idea being to pull the trigger to the rear travel limit and HOLD IT THERE!. Do not just pull to the point of the big BANG! and then let go. Instead you want to follow through by pulling the trigger smoothly to the rear and holding it there through all the noise, smoke and jumping around. Only when the big show is over and the gun is again resting in your steady hands should you then ease off the pressure and let the trigger move ahead. As you do you'll feel the reset click and you can reverse and pull for the next shot.

Another hint on the trigger pull. Do not clutch at the trigger like it's a mouse button or a light switch. And do not pre-pressure the trigger to stage it and then snap off the last bit. Instead you want to smoothly and consistently build up pressure on the trigger until it stops at the rear travel limit. Don't think of moving the trigger, just build up your finger pressure smoothly and let the trigger moves as and when it wishes in response to the pressure. On striker fired guns and double action triggers this is actually pretty easy to do. On single action triggers that stay in place then jump at the break it's a bit tougher. But the key is to still build the pressure and let the break surprise you. If you KNOW it's going to shoot then you're still staging or snapping at the trigger. Both are very bad for attaining the right mental detachment from the BANG! And as is so often written the key to accuracy is that the actual shot should surprise you each and every time.

Don't try to time and control the recoil. You'll lose every time and your groups end up looking like spray from a plant mister. If you even THINK that you can hold back the recoil you will flinch.

You're probably only the second person I've ever heard of that flinches UPWARDS. The other is someone I shoot with. I have no idea what is going through either of your minds in terms of this lift up thing other than perhaps it's a reverse flinch that is trying to compensate for knowing that your tendency is to pull down. So you overcompensate and lift up? I just don't know.

Instead work at simply being a big dumb structure that holds the gun. No bear trap like antics to try to fight the recoil. Just a non moving support much like a tripod used with a camera. Forget about any sort of conscious effort to fight the recoil. You'll never get it right anyway. Instead just tension up and don't move ANYTHING other than your trigger finger. Not so much as an eyelash other than that one finger. A steady support combined with a smooth build on the trigger and the commitment to holding the trigger back throughout the recoil event will produce the sort of surprise break that is needed to achieve consistent shot releases that leads to tighter groupings.

Another issue of supporting the gun that I've seen is folks with a death grip. If you hold the gun TOO hard to where you're white knuckling it then it also makes it tough to separate your trigger finger movement from the rest of your muscles. If in doubt ease up a little and try again. Keep easing up until the gun actually moves around in your grip pressure and requires re-positioning. At that point you're TOO loose and need to grip a little harder back to where it doesn't move around even with multiple shots.

You bring up some interesting points. I can't honestly tell you WHY I flinch upwards. But last night I had an epiphany at the range. I have been consistently shooing high lately. And on one of my shots I noticed that the sight was aimed high after recoil and I went "ah ha!". Now it's a matter of fixing the flinch AND keeping that front site in place through the whole trigger pull.

I am definitely guilty of staging the trigger. On any gun. And then rapidly pulling it the rest of the way, to a speed just slow enough to not "jerk" the trigger. But the way you put it, it may be adding to the mess.

I think I have good-to-excellent grip support. A change in my support hand is what recently led me to be able to improve my 25 yard targets from 2/10 hits to 8/10 hits in 8" circle. However, there are many times were I have to readjust my support hand after recoil. Again, independent of the firearm. So maybe that IS an area that could use improvement. I feel like the flinch is of a bigger issue though.

 

[Big Mike]

RF- I went the other way and managed to work on my flinch by shooting, slowly and semi-rapid, a larger caliber revolver, before shooting my 9, .40, .45 ACP semi-autos. I always left one chamber empty too; this was important. Once I was sensitized to the recoil of a larger caliber, moving onto the lower-powered pistols wasn't near as bad, and when I brought them, I would mix snap caps into mags. I focused mostly on consistent trigger manipulation. It helped for both the Glock and Beretta DA/SA I had, despite their triggers being different. Not sure you have the access/means but hammering out a 9 or .40 after 50 rounds of .357 or .44, almost feels like you're plinking. Good luck!

 

[BCRider]

I am definitely guilty of staging the trigger.......the way you put it, it may be adding to the mess.

I'd suggest that this messes things up a lot more than you realize. You're setting yourself up to time your flinch with your last trigger snatch.

Last summer I was SO'ing a group at my club's Speed Steel match. Two of the guys on my squad were LEO's using their duty issue DOA S&W's. The one guy wasn't TOOO bad but the other was taking 12 to 15 shots to hit 5 targets pretty consistently. I mentioned that he was staging and snatching the trigger a couple of times. He'd try to correct it but it would get a little better for a couple of shots and then he was back to the bad habits. After the match I offered to show him more of what I meant in exchange for getting to shoot his gun..... plus I was curious about just how bad issue DAO guns REALLY are....

As it happened I got to show him 15 or so shots worth out of his duty mags (the rest of us are only trusted with 10 at a time up here). And I didn't have any trouble getting 15 hits on targets ranging from 8 inch round at 10 yards out to the 6 inch at around 20 yards. When he really focused on a smooth pull with no staging he was hitting one shot/one target too. He couldn't stay for the afternoon round but he promised to work on this more.

Check out your grip compared to this excellent video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZDttBfock

If you're not doing it just like he shows I'd suggest you have room for improvement.

On the question of using a .22 as a flinch fighter? I'm a huge fan of this method. Like you found it's one thing to do it perfect when dry firing but a whole other issue when you know, or strongly suspect, that there is ammo in the gun. I like the .22 as it gives me SOME recoil that I can work on focusing away from fretting over and it gives me holes in the paper to show me when it's all working well.

I also knew that I wanted at least ONE .rimfire pistol so for me it was not a burden to buy one. Apparently it found a soft spot in me as I've got as many rimfire semi auto guns as I do centerfire.

What I'd do with the rimfire gun is load up and work on my style. When I was in the zone I'd switch to the center fire 9 until I noticed the flinch returning. I'd then go back to the .22 and work on the basics. At first I'd get in the "zone" with a mag of .22 and in less than 10 shots of centerfire I'd be back to flinching. So back to the .22. All in all it took me the better part of 2000 rounds of rimfire and likely 500 of center fire going back and forth before the flinch was put away for a while. If I don't shoot for a while I feel the flinch coming back even with 9's and .38's. So I not only shoot rimfire for the cheap fun but for the ongoing practice.

Staging and then snatching the trigger is going to promote a flinch at LEAST as badly as pulling the trigger only to the BANG! and then letting it go. You need to break the focus on both the break and the BANG! Once you can do that the BANG! becomes something you feel in passing as you're focusing on the sight picture and the smooth pull and follow through hold.

It's not unfair to suggest that if you set yourself up to KNOW that the gun is going to kick on demand by staging the trigger and/or snatching at it with a sudden poke that it becomes very hard to tell the little guy controlling the automatic reactions in the back room of your head to just ignore what is coming. But if you can set things up so that the eventual BANG! is a surprise then you can fool him into missing the event and kicking your arm and wrist muscles until it's too late. And that's where the focus on the sight picture and working on a smooth and steady pressure build comes in.

 

[Shimitup]

This may be over simplifying, but last weekend I was at the range having been away for very long time. I was shooting full house silhouette loads in my Redhawk and flinching a bit. I realized I was not seeing the sights and following through. What seemed to do the trick was to first get mad at myself and WATCH THE FRONT SIGHT! Building up the trigger press was secondary, don't care when it goes off its going to when it's ready, but I will see the sights when it does. Seemed to work. From that point forward I saw the sights on every shot. Part of what got me riled is that it's a hoss of a gun and there's nothing painful about shooting it, done it nearly 10'000 times. I was rewarded by hearing some steel rams pinging too.

 

[9mmepiphany]

For a true flinch, it's not really a "technique" thing. The flinch is involuntary

It depends on how you define a "true flinch"

If you are talking about a flinch as a reaction to sound or flash...yes, that is involuntary; but it happens after the shot has taken place. From the OP's description (not occurring during dry fire), it sounds like more likely that it is an anticipatory flinch...which is completely about technique.

Most of it is mental.

It is the shooter anticipating that the gun will recoil and snapping through the trigger pull...to get it over with. This is addressed through conditioning the subconscious, through exposure to lighter recoiling guns to accept the lack of impending danger/harm from the recoil.

More common is the shooter anticipating the sights drifting off of "perfect alignment" and trying to make the shot go off as they see the sights "perfectly aligned"...which is demonstrated by his desire to stage the trigger. This has to do with emotional investment in the result and not trusting in the process of seeing the sights and pressing the trigger

This is completely technique. You need to understand and accept that the sights will move as you press the trigger to the rear. Rather than force the sights back onto target, you need to allow them to return to the center, just as you do when you drive a car on the street...it is the difference between jerky and smooth steering corrections.

Keep pressing the trigger evenly and straight to the rear as you hold the aligned sights on the target and the trigger will eventually release the sear/hammer and the shot will go off. Don't look at your target after each shot, shoot 3-5 shots before evaluating where your shots are striking.

A picture of your shooting style really would help with evaluating your grip and trigger finger placement

 

[BYJO4]

Like many, I also tend to have periods that I will flinch or anticipate the gun going off. Since I don't fire any heavy recoil loads, I think mine comes from trying too hard and over thinking the mechanics of doing everything right when aiming at the target. When this happens, I concentrate on the front sight and target with the goal of seeing the muzzel of the barrel move upward when the gun fires. This insures that I'm not closing my eyes or moving my head while squeezing the trigger.

 

[ratt_finkel]

Just got back from the gym, so sorry if I don't look photogenic for THR

But here is my stance with my favorite Beretta M9A1.

Left Side view


Front view


Right side


Top view


Right rear


Far right rear


Front angle


9mm: a lot of what you said rings true. I am definitely anticipating the recoil and doing "whatever" it is that I do to try and combat that.

 

[9mmepiphany]

First I have to say that these pictures really help. Much better than the single POV, blurry pictures we sometimes get.

Two confusing points you might address:
1. In the first picture, your strong thumb looks very tense (like it is applying pressure to the base of the other thumb); however in the last picture it looks pretty relaxed. Which is your default...I'm guessing tense
2. I can't quite tell what your support hand index finger is doing, if it is trying to 1) hook the trigger guard (a la Napoleon Solo), 2) establish the Ayoob Wedge, or going for the Vogel grip.

Some observations of less than optimal technique:
1. It looks like you have your elbows locked...which means you're being rocked by the recoil
2. You have your trigger finger along the frame, rather than arced outward...which means that as you press the trigger, you're pushing the gun laterally.

Don't try to "fight" the recoil...after all it only occurs after you've completed your trigger press. Accept that the gun will recoil...you really don't have much choice...and use technique to allow the gun to return to it's original POA. If you are trying to muscle the gun to keep it from flipping upward...or even worst, using a push/pull technique...it will have an adverse effect on your trigger press and your accuracy

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, don't worry about your wrist breaking upwards...it isn't affecting your accuracy in a two-handed grip. Your strong hand grip shouldn't be too tight and your support hand should exert most of the grip pressure in holding the gun

 

[BCRider]

I missed the locked elbows on the first view.

From the looks of the nail beds on your thumbs and the amount of pad deformation on that left side muzzle shot I'd suggest that you're pressing into the frame with your thumbs. The thumbs should not be used for support. Putting them where we do is mostly a parking spot to get them out of the way. It's fine to have them in contact but be sure you're not pressing as hard as the pictures make it appear.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The elbows are most obvious in Pic #2, #5, and #7; much less so in #4 and #6.

It is possible he has huge forearms and smaller biceps, but it isn't very likely

 

[murf]

your wrists are supposed to "break". accept that fact and stop fighting the recoil. don't help, or hinder the gun during the shot, just line up the sights and squeeze the trigger. keep a firm grip throughout the shot.

may i suggest you also bring the gun back down after recoil and line up the sights on target after every shot.

just don't fight the recoil. fwiw

murf

p.s. watch the video at customsixguns.com. john linebaugh does a wonderful job of managing recoil.