How to legally purchase an unlicensed gun. . . NYS.

[CNYCacher]

A friend of mine moved here (NY) from FL a few years ago and brought with her a .22 handgun, although she has never bothered to get her handgun permit for NY. She keeps it in her home. She legally owned the gun in FL. She wants the gun but doesn't want to bother with the NYS permit process. At the same time, she doesn't want to keep it illegaly, but is unsure how to get rid of it. As someone who is waiting for his permit to come in the mail, and was planning a .22 handgun as a first purchase anyway, I offered to buy it from her when my permit arrives, but both of us are unsure of how to do this legally.

Once I receive my NY permit (20 days down, ~160 to go), is there a way that I can legally purchase this gun from her, without her getting in trouble? What would be the proceedure for doing this?

I should clarify that it would be my intention to own the gun, and keep it in my possession. It is NOT my intention to be the owner on paper while she keeps the gun, I intend to have it for myself.

Assuming that I can convince her to get her permit as well, and she then decides to keep the gun, would she able to register it on her permit? How does that work when you move into NYS and bring your guns?

 

[Poodleshooter]

Once I receive my NY permit (20 days down, ~160 to go), is there a way that I can legally purchase this gun from her, without her getting in trouble? What would be the proceedure for doing this?

The following is my opinion based on a non-legal expert's knowledge of NY law (lived there for a few years and have lots of family upstate).

1. She needs to get the gun outside of NY, ASAP. Preferably to family members in Florida,since that's where she came from,and raises no red flags about interstate sales by an unlicensed person. Transfering it to "Uncle Bob in PA" when you're a former FL resident is sort of nebulous,legally,though since neither state has registration,it likely would not be a problem.
2. She needs to find a gunshop in NY who is willing to accept a weapon from an out of state FFL and hold it for sale until you get your permit. FFLs can legally hold unlicensed handguns in NYS.
3. She needs to find an out of state FFL who is willing to ship the weapon from Florida/whatever state to a NYS FFL.
4. She needs to have that out of state FFL ship to the NY state FFL via whatever method is cheapest or available. The NY FFL will hold the weapon until the receiver is permitted or the weapon is sold to a NY permitted customer.
5. Once you get your handgun permit, you can put it on your permit by buying it from the FFL, OR she can wait till she gets a handgun permit and can have it transferred to her possession. That could take a year or so depending on her length of residency in NY.

Things she should NOT do:
-Take it to a NY FFL directly. Factually I've heard of a lot of new NY residents doing this and it works out fine. In real life, you are in possession of an unregistered handgun for the entire time that you possess it,and walking in the door of the gunshop lets the dealer know this. Not good,IMHO,though others may recommend that procedure.
-Call the police and ask for help. Best case scenario is that they confiscate it. Worst case scenario is prosecution for possession.


I saw this same situation happen many times while in NY. People move into NY just assuming naturally that they can continue to posess their private property. Silly citizens!

I should clarify that it would be my intention to own the gun, and keep it in my possession. It is NOT my intention to be the owner on paper while she keeps the gun, I intend to have it for myself.

There is no "intention" to own in NYS or ownership that is not "on paper". The pistol is either listed on your permit by serial #,or it is illegal to possess. Every pistol in NY is either papered, government owned or illegal.
That's full handgun registration (shudder).

For those moving in, they should follow the process above, minus step 1 of getting it out of state.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Where does it say all that in the Second Amendment?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Where does it say all that in the Second Amendment?

It's in the microscopic fine print that states while I may be on moral grounds, I do not wish to become a martyr as well as convicted felon while spending thousands of dollars to keep myself out of prison by violating obviously unconstitutional, yet at present, enforced state laws.

 

[Zen21Tao]

She should move back here to Florida where she actually has rights.

 

[Diomed]

But the NY weather is so much nicer!

(Actually, I think I'm being serious... )

 

[Trebor]

She needs to contact an attorney ASAP. What you guys are proposing could get you both in serious trouble. You know have knowledge of her commiting a crime and you have expressed a desire to enter into a conspiracy with her involving the gun.

 

[mete]

Poodle has it right as far as I understand the law. In NYS you cannot possess, carry, or use a gun that is not on your permit !!

 

[ctdonath]

NYS law very specifically spells out what to do in such a case. Upshot is you inform the police, who will take possession of it, and you have a reasonable period of time to get a permit for it, at which point the police give it back (or transfer to the recipient of your choice). Should go fine as the process is clearly spelled out in law; of course they may not cooperate and destroy it as a "nuisance". GET A LAWYER.

And absolutely do NOT try to FLY it out of the state - it WILL be confiscated permanently.

Yes, do understand that in NY the license is for a particular gun (unlike other states granting general permission to carry concealed).

 

[TheBluesMan]

Seems like you're trying to get around the law rather than obeying it. Gonna close this one as THR will have no part in activities that aren't completely legal. I'm not saying that you're doing anything illegal, only that it seems like you might be. Perception is what counts, though, for me and for fence-sitters.

I advise you to contact the state attorney general's office and ask for guidance on what to do.

Good luck.

-Dave

 

[TheBluesMan]

It has been brought to my attention that there is a law in place to address this type of situation. Further, there are plenty of legal precedents of new New Yorkers who have undergone the permitting process retroactively and now legally possess their formerly unregistered handguns.

For these reasons, I am re-opening the thread. I had no idea that the RKBA was so heavily infringed upon in NYS.

-Dave

 

[ctdonath]

There is a legal solution to the thread's initial question. Pay attention, it gets a little complicated.

§ 400.05 Disposition of weapons and dangerous instruments, appliances
and substances.
...
6. A firearm which is surrendered or voluntarily delivered pursuant to
section 265.20 of this chapter and which has not been declared a
nuisance pursuant to subdivision one of this section, shall be retained
by the official to whom it was delivered for a period not to exceed one
year. Prior to the expiration of such time period, the person who
surrendered such firearm or firearms, shall have the right to arrange
for the sale, or transfer, of such weapons to a dealer in firearms
licensed in accordance with this chapter or for the transfer of such
weapons to himself provided that a license therefor has been issued in
accordance with this chapter. If no such disposition is made within the
time provided, the weapon, or weapons concerned shall be declared a
nuisance and shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of
this section.

§ 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05
and 270.05 by the following:
...
(f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to
the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof
designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in
which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of
Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of
Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police
department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person
resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or
village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or
department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated
by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall
be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and
conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police
force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as
granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that
of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any
such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or
administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a
decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over
fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such
period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official
described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the
superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall
thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor,
administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named
person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise
lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the
property is received by such official within two years of the delivery
of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with
the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter.

That's the core of it. Upshot is: inform the police, they'll take possesion of it, owner make the arrangements, and it can be legally placed on someone's pistol permit. Get a lawyer, and step thru the process. Not particularly hard, just get it right.

 

[pete f]

All this, for someone who legally owns a piece of property, legally bought. This sounds like the USSR before the collapse. HOW on earth did American Citizens allow themselves to be reduced to wards of the State?

The seems to a castration of the Constitution. Seriously, I can not in any way view this as not being an infringement.

My Daughter was accepted to Columbia. When I told her about what she was giving up, she crossed them off the list. All of a sudden, Vanderbilt became much more attractive.

 

[Poodleshooter]

HOW on earth did American Citizens allow themselves to be reduced to wards of the State?

Heck,they passed the Sullivan Act back in 1911! NYS has had pistol registration for 95 years now. They're very progressive in the Empire State (cue Darth Vader Imperial March).


CTDonath:
One question about this part:
A firearm which is surrendered or voluntarily delivered pursuant to
section 265.20 of this chapter and which has not been declared a
nuisance pursuant to subdivision one of this section, shall be retained
by the official to whom it was delivered for a period not to exceed one
year.

Subdivison 1 follows: Any weapon, instrument, appliance or substance specified in article
two hundred sixty-five, when unlawfully possessed, manufactured,
transported or disposed of, or when utilized in the commission of an
offense, is hereby declared a nuisance.

So it looks to me like the surrendered firearm could be simply declared a nuisance due to it's unlawful possession as an unregistered firearm (handgun) and destroyed,since it was possessed illegally at some point.

This kind of doubletalk reminds me of the NY assault weapons law (specifically the "copies therof" part that to my reading seems to allow the banning of post ban compliant weapons such as SAR-1s which are copies of the AK variants mentioned even though they are feature compliant by having 2 or less features). The text here seems to allow a stricter interpretation than may be current practice by LEOs. That would make me rather nervous walking into the sheriff's office.

 

[ctdonath]

That's why you get a lawyer involved. (and I'm sure not one.) NY gun law does not necessarily make sense. Remember, this is a state where rifles and shotguns are not legally "firearms" (I kid you not).

My take on that line is that so long as the state knew nothing about it until you informed them of its legally questionable presence, did so with no other aggrivating factors (i.e.: no other crimes involved), and did so out of an obviously honest attempt to make things right, the state agents involved are bound to make a reasonable effort to fulfill the process clearly laid down in law specifically for such purpose (registering an unregistered firearm). Failing to do so, by simply declaring the thing a "nuisance", plainly runs contrary to the purpose and spirit of that specific law (which is written twice in different language in two very separate sections of the Penal Code).

Yes, it looks like any surrendered unregistered firearm could be simply declared a "nuisance" and destroyed on the spot. Such is the idiocy of NY gun laws. That the legislature plainly went thru the trouble to allow an owner to legally register and transfer the firearm indicates the "nuisance" route is unlikely.

Again, get a lawyer and step thru the process. You can step thru the process without help (it's simple enough), just have the lawyer handy to make sure things go the way they should.