How to Load BPCR Rounds?

[Mac Attack]

I am just getting started in reloading of blackpowder (BPCR) and found this video on youtube. Is it just my lack of experience loading BPCR or is the bullet sticking to far out on the round he created? I have years of experience loading smokeless but this will be my first attempt at loading blackpowder in my 45-70 Sharps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOyvtS3pOzg

He used two wads in his round. Do you really need to use two? Also, I have heard people referring to lube pills but I am not sure what those are.

 

[ArmedBear]

How to load BPCR rounds?

Well, as my Dad used to say to me as a kid, "Very carefully."

What kind of Sharps?

I wish I had a picture of the load I used in a Pedersoli replica. One lube groove wasn't even inside the brass. It worked great, though it was a bit gooey to handle.

Depends on what the chamber dimensions are. Some allow for a lot of the bullet to protrude from the brass. Also depends on the bullet. This was a Lyman Postell 525 grain, AFAIK (I borrowed the mold).

I used two wads, but they were punched from milk cartons and so not very thick.

 

[Mac Attack]

I have a Pedersoli 1874 Sporter model chambered in 45-70.

I have Goex powder, dies, compression die insert, starline cases, 405 grain lasercast bullets (.459 dia.) And large rifle primers. I still need to buy a drop tube and wads.

What else do I need?

 

[scrat]

Whats laser cast bullet lubes lubed with. it is important that they are lubed with a good black powder lube.

Ok now for the question.

Think of BPCR loading as loading a cap and ball. Only thing different is you have a case and you need to make sure the completed round is of a certain length so the bullet is not touching the lands of the rifle. so how do you go about doing it.

The powder and bullet must meet. so what do you do. how do you do it. Well for smokeless powder it is not that critical on how much powder. For black powder it is. You almost do not need a drop tube. Here is how i do it and how you can do it the first part is critical.

Since bullets are different in length n size you need to take a bp powder measure and pour in the powder until it meets the bullet. Meaning you have to lay the bullet next to the brass and measure it out to where the cartridge overall length is and where the powder will meet the bullet. now mark the case and fill the powder to that mark going about 2 grains over. Why because you have to compress the powder. Now once you have this and you know what this level is i usually will scribe that mark on the brass case then write down the powder measure ment so you have it written down somewhere. Next to actually load. I do not use a drop tube at all. Pour the powder from the flask into a brass bp powder measure. usually a piece of writing paper under just incase i spill some. Then pour the powder into the case. Then i take a fiber vegetable wad and start to put it in by hand. Then use the powder measure to compress the wad to the powder some firm pressure. then i do a bunch more so that i have maybe 50 or so done. Then its press the bullet to meet with the powder or wad. Then its ad a light crimp if you want. Now thats for regular loads. You can also do lighter loads. by loading 1/2 the powder then wad then loading the rest with oatmeal up to your mark. Light compress with heck the back of a ball point pen works. add more oatmeal to its about where you need it then press in the bullet. I have seen guys take it down to 20 grains. Accuracy sucks though. you can also do gallery loads with a 45-70 using .457 roundballs. There was a very good article in guns of the old west about a year ago on this.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I'd get a Lee .45/70 Factory Crimp Die also...you like it better especially with the .45/70's. I use the Lee 405gr .459" mold with 63.9gr of ffg Black powder.
Use my lube pill recipe for the boolit lube.
Here's the recipe,

Dang I'm broke Lube Pills

What I did was start out with:
Parafin comes in a brick divided to to 4 like a stick a butter, I used a stick.
Then 1/4 of a Bolwax Toilet Seal Ring(Beeswax)substitute or beeswax or use with the parafin.
Then 8-10 Tablespoons of Olive Oil/soy oil
The Olive oil is the Lube the Waxes just carry it and keep the pill as
you want it.(consistacey/hard or soft...climate time of year)
And that made alot about 600 pills...about 1/8" thick for the most part.
Place the lube mixture in a small saucepan, place the small saucepan in a larger pan with water
boilin' the water and sorta poach the lube mix to a liquid.
level stiff heated pizza pan(or 7-9" heavy pie pan)is the best thing to pour your mix into...
so mix cools evenly(flat) .Place in fridge when it's set stiff(optional)
And worked good for me...you need to try your best guess and add/subract as you like them
for your use.


Punch out to the caliber of your choice, with a tube. Place lube pill over powder with ball
on top. You'll shoot all day without binding. Keeps cylinder lubed fouling soft and barrel
relatively clean.

It works.

SG

 

[Jim Watson]

Lose the Laser Cast bullets. They are too hard and the small amount of hard wax smokeless lube will just make a caked on crud mess. I am now using Montana Bullet Works bullets with DGL black powder lube until I can get set back up to cast.

The Goex field rep, on the Shiloh board as rdnck, recommends that you find a starting load by dumping a case full of loose powder, full to the mouth and scraped level. Set your scale or measure for that amount. When actually loading, sift the powder down a drop tube to settle it in the case. Put in a wad - I use the Walters .030" "vegetable fibre" - and compress the charge to where the base of the bullet will be with the compression plug. Seat the bullet down on the wad with no gap but not hard enough to deform the soft bullet.

If you get your case mouth chamfer and flare right, you will be able to seat the bullet without scraping lead and without having to crimp for a single shot.

I have one rifle that I seat the bullet with a grease groove showing and another that I load with the front band out of the brass and the top grease groove barely covered. Something to tinker with.

Notes: He and I are loading for competition, I shoot silhouettes to 500 metres and midrange to 600 yards, he goes farther. We will either use a blowtube between shots to keep the fouling soft or wipe every shot with a damp patch. If you want to blaze away at a CAS side match, you might do well to use a "grease cookie" of bullet lube between two wads.

 

[Mac Attack]

I wish I would have known about the Laser Cast bullets before hand because I just purchased them today during lunch, a whole box of them and i spent a small fortune on them.! Can I still use them? Can I scrape off the lube and replace it with a lube pill?

 

[Jim Watson]

Lots of good information at:
http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction to BPCR Loading.pdf

and the Shiloh board:
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

and the BPCR board
http://www.bpcr.net/

I don't know if you can salvage those Laser Cast for black, but you could try, I guess.
Or use them with smokeless for plinking.

 

[scrat]

cancel the order return them. probably hard lead with the wrong lube. too much of a hasstle its best to get the proper lube from the begining.

 

[Mac Attack]

Thank you all for your replies. Your replies sparked some additional questions.

1. Unfortunately I cannot return the laser cast 405 gr bullets. If I use them in my Pedersoli sharps, will they damage my rifle?

2. How do I determine the overall length of a round? Using the combination of starline cases, 405 gr bullets and I am thinking a lube pill with compressed BP what is the best approach?

Scrat wrote
"Since bullets are different in length n size you need to take a bp powder measure and pour in the powder until it meets the bullet. Meaning you have to lay the bullet next to the brass and measure it out to where the cartridge overall length is and where the powder will meet the bullet. now mark the case and fill the powder to that mark going about 2 grains over. Why because you have to compress the powder."

I read your post over several times about determining the bullets setting depth but was a bit confused. Are you saying that once I determine my OAL I lay the bullet next to the case and mark the depth of where the bullet bottom should be?

I haven't started loading yet but plan on doing so soon. I have some pyrodex 2ff which I purchased sometime back for my Hawkens rifle but ended up shooting BP instead. I was considering loading up some rounds with pyrodex as well just to see how they shoot. What should I use as a starting load?

For BP, should I start out at 70 gr's of 2ff or should I start lower and work my way up?

Thanks for all of your advice.

Mac

 

[scrat]

Yes to the first question on bullet length. If you are using a press you can adjust your bullet seating depth to that measurement. Just make sure powder is at that mark or above. As for load. since you are using pyrodex you should keep to the same load. now if you were using 777 you would have to reduce your load by 15%. again the most important part is making sure you do not have an air gap. so its almost better to go with 72 grains or to seat the bullet a tad more than to have that air gap. The lube pill sounds like a good idea. i would take it a step further though. probably put the bullets in boiling hot water. Then lube them spg lube or make up some lube 60% bees wax and 40% crisco heat up the bees wax add the crisco then mix together and let cool and harden then you can lube the bullets with it.

 

[Mac Attack]

Thank you.

Scrat wrote:

Only thing different is you have a case and you need to make sure the completed round is of a certain length so the bullet is not touching the lands of the rifle.

What is the best way to determine the proper OAL of a cartridge?

 

[scrat]

the overall length of a 45.70 is 2.550. If you have a bullet puller what i would do is back out your bullet compression die a bit. press in the bullet then take it out and measure it. then keep adjusting the seating die until you get to that length. Then you can measure the length of a bullet and scribe on the case where the powder should be. use a bullet puller to pull the bullet. Then load up 70 grains and see if it meets or passes the scribe. if not then you need to adjust your load or if its off by a lot you can use a filler like either cream of wheat or oatmeal to bring it up to the scribe or higher. Do you have wads. a good wad to get is a fiber wad. cabelas sells them pretty cheap for about 1000 of them. If you do not have a bullet puller then you need to . 1. get a micrometer and set it at 2.550 then in between the jaws. lay down the case and put the bullet next to it so its touching the top. Now you can mark that spot on the case. measure 70 grains and see if it comes up to that mark.

 

[Matt-J2]

I dunno about for rifles, but I use Laser Cast 255gr SWC in my .45 Colt BP loads, and they work just fine. Much more accurate than the same load using soft Magtech LRN bullets at 250gr(same powder charge).

Never had a mess with the smokeless lube, but I do melt it off now and replace with SPG lube. Shoots nicer, I guess.


So anyway, give those bullets a try. They may work, they may not, but since you already paid for em, see what happens(it won't damage the rifle). If they don't work, you may be able to cast them back down and mix them with more pure lead to soften the mix up. Not sure on that, though.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Laser Cast bullets will not harm your gun.

You determine OAL for a single shot by the length that will bring the front bearing band of the bullet right up to the origin of the rifling. 2.550 does not mean anything in a Sharps. I do not crimp for a single shot, I don't want anything messing with that bullet as it starts down the barrel.

 

[Mac Attack]

Follow up question - if I use a lube pill do I also need to use wads between the powder and bullet?

I plan to make a batch of lube pills. Where can buy the supplies I need? I read that I should make the pills approximately 1/8" thick. Is this correct?

 

[BHP FAN]

In my Trapdoors I use 60gr. 2f Goex dropped through a Shiloh Sharps drop tube,a Buffalo Bros. .030 veggie wad [looks like thin cork gasket material] a .45 Wonder Wad,and a 405 gr. RNFP,or a 385 RNL .459 home cast lead bullet.The Wonder Wad allows for good compression with the somewhat reduced load.As a side note ,the load with the 405 gr. bullet approximates the original US Cavalry carbine load quite closely.