How to pick a S&W .32 Long Terrier (or similar I-frame?)

[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings,
For whatever unfathomable reason, I'm toying with tracking down a little I-frame in .32 Long. I like small guns and snubbies, and the I-frame is about as small as functional DA revolvers get.

I'm a little unclear on a few points:

1) What's the difference between Terrier and the .32 Hand Ejector, or the "Improved" I-frame?
2) Were Terriers first in .32, or first in .38S&W?
3) What's the deal with the whole J-frame Terrier trend in the 70s? How do I make sure I don't accidentally buy a J-frame Terrier online?
4) I really like the retro look of the half-moon front sight and tapered barrel on some Terriers I've seen online. Were all I-frame Terriers of that type, or did they go to the later style (which look pretty much like any modern J-frame)? Is what I want called a 38/32, or a no-dash 32?
5) Is there a serial cutoff for the modern (coil?) springs? How bad is it if I buy the earlier flat-spring versions? Is there a certain serial cutoff for inferior heat treating or any other negative early metallurgical trends?

Thanks for any info on the subject. Sweet little sixguns, those.

-MV

 

[R. W. Simms]

Good question. I'm surprised that nobody has answered this thread. I'm no S&W expert but I've been looking for an I-frame Terrier for a while and did a little research on them...

1. The 32 Hand Ejector is more accurately called the Hand Ejector model of 1905, and the caliber is .32-20, not .32 S&W. It's the .32 version of the K-frame .38 M&P revolver.

2. Terriers were produced on the I-frame, the improved I-frame, and the J-frame. The I-frame had 5 screws, 1.25" cylinder, and leaf mainspring with strain screw on the front gripstrap. The improved I-frame had 4 screws, 1.25" cylinder, and coil mainspring with no strain screw. The J-frame had a longer 1.38" cylinder for the .38 Special cartridge, and coil mainspring with no strain screw. The .32's were made first, starting in 1917. The .38 Terriers didn't appear until 1936, as near as I can tell.

3. I don't understand question #3 about J-frame Terriers in the 1970's. By that time they were known as the model 36 Chief's Special, not "Terrier". As far as not getting a J-frame Terrier is concerned, you'll have to ask the seller to measure the cylinder length. If it's 1.25 inches it's an I-frame; if it's 1.38 inches it's a J-frame (see answer #2 above).

4. The half-moon front sight is found on the pre-war I-frames. Post-war Terrier production didn't start up again until 1948 and those guns had a ramped front sight. The .38/32 designation simply implies a .38 gun on a .32 frame, which is why the .38 guns only have 5 chambers and yes, that's what a Terrier is. Some people refer to this model as the "pre-model 32".

5. The cut-off date for the leaf spring appears to be 1953 when the Improved I-frame was introduced. Metallurgy is fine for all standard-pressure .38 S&W ammo in any of these guns. In fact, factory .38 S&W ammo is loaded down to the level that the old break-top Iver-Johnson's and H&R guns could stand. The I-frame is much stronger so you shouldn't have any problems whatsoever if the gun is in good condition and you stick with factory ammo.

These guns do have a great appeal. I wouldn't consider one for concealed carry these days, though. The .38 S&W cartridge is too weak and is not available in any decent defense loads. The more modern J-frames that can handle .38 Special +P's make more sense in this regard. I just want to have a good representative specimen for my collection and shoot it every now and then. Good luck with your search.

-Bob

 

[ribbonstone]

Bob knows his I-frames, all good information.

Given a good conditon one, while it might not be a great choice for serious defence, are well made little fellas and (usually in the longer barrel lengths)can be a good choice for small game hunting.

Get 'em while you can, the little I-frames haven't seen the big collectors interrest that the large frame S7w's have, so finding a good one at a reasonable price is still possible.

 

[Old Fuff]

MatthewVanitas:

Part of the problem with responses is that you ask a lot of question all at once that require lengthly answers.

While the Old Fuff sometimes know what you want to learn, writing so long a post may not always be possible, given his available time. Time at the momement is indeed a problem. But I'll try to answer your first question about the Terrier.

It was a particular variant of the I-frame, generally known as the "1903 Hand Ejector."

A Terrier was exclusively a 5-shot .38 S&W revolver with a 2" barrel. It came about in 1936, partly because of interest in such a model by the U.S. Post Office. The Terrier remained in production through the different I-frames, and was built on the J-frame when the "Improved I-frame" was discontinued. It was cataloged as the model 32 when S&W switched to numbers. Prior to 1941 it was the only I-frame offered as a snubnose, the other shortest length available on .32 I-frames being 3 1/4 inches. Following World War Two a number of .32 model 1903 Hand Ejectors (I-Frame and later J-Frame) were offered with 2" barrels. The I-Frame/2" .32's are now prized collectors items. (Usually going for collector prices).

Regardless of what frame it is built on, a Terrier can be identified by its short 1 1/4" long cylinder.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Ah, I see I had some basic misconceptions coming in:

So, a "Terrier" must be in .38 S&W by definition? And the snub-nosed object which resembles the Terrier but is in .32 S&W would simply be a shortened variant of the 1903 Hand Ejector?

And, per Old Fluff, the snubby .32 I-frames are collectible and pricey, so probably not a good option for myself.


My curiousity was mainly stirred by my surprise that nobody has made an I-frame in recent decades, aside from Taurus' apparently-failed 9mm model.

Similar to my frustration with the lack of a modern version of the S&W Safety Hammerless and other little pocket guns. Though it appears that NAA is making a pretty close revamp of said guns, though in an SA format.

Thanks much for all the info; I know far more now than I knew a couple days back. Since we had very little Terrier-specific info on this forum previously, this thread may prove helpful to other folks running searches in the future. Thanks much,

-MV

 

[ribbonstone]

"Pricey?" In this area, can usually find the .32's in good condtion for about 65-70% of the same age/condition M&P. On occasion, will find them for a good deal less (picked an 85% finish, seemingly never shot, .32 3 1/4" barrel at a local shop for $125 this year).

Yep...the snub nosed Terrier does command a premium...but I've a soft spot for the longer barreles (the 4 1/4" is a favorite). Even the later models of that one (the last version was the Mod. 33) have bee a whole lot of fun....that one isn't really an I-frame, but the NIB nickled version picked up at a 2004 Kenner, La. gun show ran $235.

 

[Old Fuff]

ribbonstone:

I used the word "pricey" to specifically relate to the relatively rare, but very popular I-frames with snubby 2" barrels. I fully agree with your observations concerning the standard lengths of 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches that were cataloged for the .32 1903 Hand Ejectors. The same barrel lengths applied to the "Regulation Police" model, which was a square-butt varriant of the regular I-Frame (later J-frame) and chambered in either .32 S&W Long (6 shot) or .38 S&W (5 shot). In these lengths prices are often much more reasonable, and the Old Fuff has trampled several individuals that were so foolish as to get between him and one of those prized little revolvers.

I also agree with Matthew's thoughts about the Safety Hammerless .32 and .38 top-breaks. I own several, including one that belonged to the late Col. Rex Applegate.

 

[Jim K]

A little correction on chronology. The first I frame, a .32., came out in 1896, and was the first swing cylinder S&W. S&W called these guns "hand ejectors" to distinguish them from the "automatic ejecting" break-top revolvers. The 1896 model has a different cylinder stop mechanism, using the same system as the old tip ups, with the cylinder stop in the top strap operated by a tab on the hammer. The Model 1903 changed that, and looks like the later guns, but the internal mechanism is different.

The Model 1896 frame is close enough to a modern J frame that grips for a 642 will fit, and the sideplate screws will interchange.

Jim