How to tell if ammo is corrosive?

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I just bought some surplus ammo, 7.62x54r. I asked the guy at the store if it was corrosive or not, and he said that he didn't know. I assume that it is, but I'm not certain. Is there a way you can tell?
 
All surplus 7.62x54R is corrosive. 100% of surplus ammo in any ComBloc caliber is corrosive. New commercially-produced stuff is non-corrosive, but all the old surplus is.
 
You can tell for sure by shooting it and then wait 3 days to look down the barrel. If it's closed up, it was corrosive. :what:

Do what hang fire suggested, always treat unknown ammo as corrosive and clean accordingly.
 
Thats not even a good test.

Berdan primers can be non-corrosive, just as Boxer primers can be corrosive.

But it is a safe bet that com-block mil-sup 7.62-54R IS Berdan, and IS corrosive!

rc
 
Gun corrosion and ammuniton developments

One of those things I've often thought of, but never tried it, was to pull the bullet and powder from a questionable cartridge and fire it against a clean non-stainless steel plate and see if it gets rusty. This doesn't have to be done in the firearm --you can probably tape a BB on the primer and hold the cartridge with a pair of pliers and smack the BB with a hammer.

Sounds hairy, but is not very dangerous except for the noise involved, which is why I never tried it in my senior citizen's apartment. Even just a primer going off is pretty noisy.

The problem with this is that according to Hatcher's Notebook, in his chapter on "Gun corrosion and ammunition developments," corrosion will not usually occur until the humidity goes above about 50%. So, in a dry climate, rusting of the steel plate (or gun) may not occur for a while. I think this is the reason for the "I've never had a problem with corrosion if I clean with chicken fat (or whatever)" statements, but the writer happens to live in Arizona or some other dry place.

ARIzona, from "ARId," get it? But try cleaning with chicken fat (or whatever) in Mississippi or Florida or a place like that, and the gun rusts.

This 50% thing was the cause of the great mystery the ordnance department had in its initial experimentation with corrosion due to primers --guns fired with corrosive ammunition might not actually rust for days, weeks, or months, because the humidity had not gone above that "about 50%" mark for those days, weeks, or months.

Then, boom, their test barrels would suddenly rust. When they finally discovered that, research on corrosive primers proceeded more quickly.

Here in Colorado, the humidity only occasionally goes anywhere near 50% unless it's monsoon season. Yesterday the humidity was 8% and went all the way up to 13%. Right now it's 55%, so go figure.

Anyhow, them's my thoughts on it

Terry, 230RN

REF:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hatchers-notebook-julian-s-hatcher/1100192686
 
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^^ truer words were never spoken.

Douse that baby ASAP after shooting. You can put most modern guns away dirty, with modern ammo.

But NEVER shoot surplus ANYTHING without giving it a bath when you get home - a bath of one form or another - I have a humorous thread on the rifle section where I showered with my PKM last week...

I had rust start to form on my PKM gas assembly junction within 6 hours of shooting corrosive ammunition. Another shooter in my funny-shower-thread reported rust within 45 minutes after shooting corrosive ammo in the rain.

That stuff works DAMN FAST.

BUT - it CAN be safely shot if you clean your gun afterwards! Works just fine. :)
 
After much research I decided that Moose Milk was the way to go. 10% Ballistol emuslifying oil & 90% distilled water for removing the salts.

After a swab & scrub, I cleaned normally. I'll let ya know how it works in a few years. ;)

FWIW the Moose Milk didn't really do much actual cleaning. Solvent & patches still came out black afterward. But the idea is to remove the corrosive salts.
 
monotonous_iterancy, just to assure that you know ...

The issue with "corrosive" ammo is the potassium chlorate that is used in the primer compound as an oxidizer.

After providing its additional oxygen to the reaction, what remains is potassium chloride.

By itself, potassium chloride is harmless to steel but, like its cousin, sodium chloride (table salt), potassium chloride attracts moisture from the surroundings and begins the RustFest.

That is why Water (Windex is mostly water) is the Key to easily removing the potassium chloride prior to performing your regular firearms cleaning regimen. O'course if your regular firearms cleaning regimen revolves around a water-based cleaner, that, alone, should suffice.

Keep in mind that the potassium chloride will be deposited on any surface touched by the propellant gases, which is why bolts, receivers, attached-bayonets, etc. should be properly (pre)cleaned afterwards.

Also, be aware the ammonia, given time WILL remove bluing. Windex is not a problem in this regard but some folks advocate using a strong mixture of ammonia + water for the precleaning.
 
I've always used a Hoppe's solvent but the smell is a bit much indoors so I think I'm going to take the suggestion of a few friends and switch to Windex with ammonia (make sure it has ammonia in it). There are lots of solutions though, the main thing is to NOT let it sit.
 
I have been told by a an oldtimer amonia binds to the potsassium and removes it fast.
I use it and it works. Is it true, who knows, he taught HS chem.
 
Why do you feel that it is important that the Windex that you acquire for this purpose contains ammonia?

I'm told first hand that is does a much better job than Windex minus ammonia. Maybe that's not the case? Either way I trust the source of that and I'll find out soon enough :)
 
I'm told first hand that is does a much better job than Windex minus ammonia. Maybe that's not the case? Either way I trust the source of that and I'll find out soon enough :)

<nodding> It may very well do a better job than non-Ammonia Windex in removing the other non-salt crap. Same as water+detergent/soap will do a better job than just water.

Just wondering ... Thanks.
 
I remember years ago when I used Windex to pre-clean after shooting chlorate-primered ammo. I read about just using water and how the Brits had special funnels (I later purchased one from a nice fellow outside of London) for pouring boiled water thru the bores.

My first experience with just using water on the patches turned into an unsatisfactory mess. Oh, I have no doubt that the water pulled into solution & removed the potassium chloride, but the water mixing with the other crap in the bore resulted in a nasty mess.

That is when I determined that the addition of a tiny amount of detergent/soap or ammonia tamed the Crap so that I wasn't fighting GOO and could actually get the bore easily & reasonably clean until such time as I could treat it to my normal cleaning regimen.
 
I actually had a nightmare last night that I took apart my PKM and it was rusted solid.

I mean, a bona-fide frigging nightmare! The kind that WOKE ME UP.

I've been reading too many of these "corrosive" threads.
 
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