Just HOW corrosive is corrosive ammo?

[Teufelhunden]

To hear some tell it around here, corrosive ammo will rot the bore of your rifle before you have time to get home and clean it. As far as feeding my SKS goes, there are some pretty good deals out thtere on ammo that is corrosive. Is it really as evil as people would have you believe, or is it still a worthy purchase? I realise the SKS is just a $120 rifle, but I like to take care of all my weapons.

Also, how hard or easy is cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo? I know you can spray windex all over your rifle to nullify the corrosive salts, but barring that, will any of the commercial cleaners (Hoppe's, CLP, etc) work just as well?

-Teuf

 

[M2 Carbine]

I shoot corrosive ammo whenever I get a good buy.
I just give the gun a good cleaning when I get home. I never bother with windex, soap and water, etc.

In the Marine Corps, in the 1950's all our M1 (30.06) ammo was corrosive.
For the several days at the range we didn't so much as run a patch through the bore until after qualification. I was issued a brand new International Harvester M1 in 1955 and kept the same rifle for three years. When I turned it in there were a couple very, very small pits in the bore. Nothing that any rifle wouldn't get from having to constantly wipe the bore bone dry for inspections.

I use any ammo in my, SKS, AK, CZ52, M1 Garand, etc.
Just clean the gun as soon as possible and maybe look it over in a few days and clean it again if you know the ammo was corrosive.

If I bring a gun home from shooting any type of ammo and can't get to cleaning it right away I spray it down with WD40.

 

[jefnvk]

I don't think serious damage will happen for a few days, especially when in a dryer climate. Ad contrary to what people like to think, there is a varying amount of corrosiveness. The reason is that the primer produces a salt when it is struck. If only a little bit of that salt gets trapped in the bore, it isn't going to do the damage that a lot more is. Think of sprinkling a few grains of salt in, versus dropping the whole shaker down your bore.

 

[P95Carry]

Many folks get too worried but - nonetheless it is good to use suitable measurers to neutralize and clean the residue.

Old primers IIRC are productive of chlorate residue - very hygroscopic and so in a humid atmosphere this quickly becomes mild HCL - = bad!! A worst-case situation could yield flash rust over 12-24 hours and if not dealt with then pitting may begin.

In my old long range shooting days with MkIV Enfield (1960 thru 63) the cleaning goop in the armory was actually a black powder cleaner type - and a few passes with that always meant no corrosion despite the ammo being used.

Folks have as many ways of cleaning as skinning cats - I favor an old brew once posted by Cornbread 2 - and I have mentioned it before. It is for BP use primarily but works well on post corrosive ammo shooting too.


Rubbing alcohol (iso propyl) - 3 pts

Peroxide (std 3%) - 3 pts

Murphy's Oil Soap - 2 pts.



I made a gallon and have yet to get half ways thru my first pint! After three years! Easy tho to just make less but in appropriate ratio.

Keep the bulk of the mix in the dark and well stoppered - I keep my ''working pint'' in a peroxide bottle.

Without any need for hot water etc - I put a well dampened patch thru with this stuff - and follow with more until they come out fairly clean. Then a dry patch or two until bore is totally dry. It is then easy to follow with std methods as per non corrosive - as needed.

 

[Cacique500]

Rubbing alcohol (iso propyl) - 3 pts

Peroxide (std 3%) - 3 pts

Murphy's Oil Soap - 2 pts.

Ahhhh...Moose's milk!

I've used the above recipe with water instead of the peroxide (the rest of the formula the same) and you outta see what it will do to black powder. ONE swipe with a patch and everything's clean as a whistle!! And one gallon of the stuff does go a looooooooong way.

 

[P95Carry]

Ahhhh...Moose's milk!

haha - another name - my formula came to me with label ''Panther pi$$'' LOL.

True enough tho - it really is thirsty for nasty residues and whilst I have used all the hot water variations way back when ... never have again since using this - so much easier and effective.

 

[cslinger]

Corrosive ammo will indeed cause surface rust within 24 hours, I have seen it.

Pitting is a different issue. Just make sure you give it a good cleaning after you get home from the range or simply run some windex patches through the bore if you don't plan on cleaning for a day or so.

Chris

 

[Mauserguy]

I agree with M2Carbine. Shooting a little WD-40 down the barrel at the range won't take hardly any time at all, and it will provide a protective barrier between the gun's steel and the atmoshpere's oxygen. Also, I have found that a little oil, applied at the range, loosens up the fouling and makes your later cleaning a breeze.
Mauserguy

 

[Preacherman]

Moose's Milk? Panther Pee? Ye gods - what's gotten into you guys???

For myself, being a delicate, refined, civilized gentleman, I do things the touchy-feely way and use Newman's Own Light Balsamic Vinaigrette salad dressing (well shaken, not stirred). Cleans the gun and leaves it tasting wonderful, don't you know?

 

[monsternav]

Would any commercial black powder cleaner work?

Also, any good gas gun techniques?

 

[jefnvk]

Water is all that is necessary. Flush the bore with water, and all will be well. Things like Windex work because they are water based, and other ingredients can help clean things like copper fouling.

 

[cracked butt]

What JEFNVK said- just water will do.

Windex is handy simply because it comes in a spray bottle- 2 squirts down the muzzle followed by a few patches and a patch soaked with hoppes no 9 is all that is needed. You want to do this at the range before you go home.

I had experimented onece with a MN rifle with a junk barrel in the past. After firing about 30 rounds of corrosive ammo, I took it home and put it in my basement. It took 4 days before reddish fuzzies started showing up in the bore. I have little doubt that pitting begins before you see any visible rust however.

 

[shermacman]

P95Carry allegedly said:

Keep the bulk of the mix in the dark and well stoppered - I keep my ''working pint'' in a peroxide bottle.

Aye, sir! I too have a "working pint" on me workbench! I'll not mix it with peroxide, though...I don't want anything to fizz in my single malt.

 

[paul45]

Just clean it like the other fellas said....dont worry about it...clean it with some soap and water if you got no panther pi$$, lube it up and forget about it

 

[MikeJackmin]

Don't get careless!

Not all corrosive ammo is the same - some of it is just mildly corrosive, and some of it is ferocious. I've had a perfectly good rifle ruined by some Russian 7.62x54 that I stupidly left overnight before cleaning.

It's basically leaving salt in your bore, either a little, or a lot. On a dry day, no problem. On a damp day, it can be a nightmare.

You must clean the same day, and you really should use some water to help dissolve the salt. Don't forget the bolt face, the rails, the gas tube, and anything else that got powder residue on it, because if it got powder residue on it, it got primer residue, too, and that's where the salt is.

I use corrosive ammo in bolt guns but never semiautos.

 

[atek3]

I shot corr ammo out of my mosin... cleaned the bore with water, then simple green, then hoppes. Then I left the bore wet with hoppes when i put it away, I check a few weeks later...RUST in the bore. So I gave it a good scrubbing to get the surface rust out, hoppes, put it away, STILL RUSTED in a week. Any ideas on keeping the bore shiny? My closet is pretty humid, but my other guns haven't had bore oxidation.

thanks,
atek3

 

[Jim K]

Hi, folks,

In practical terms, there is no such thing (except in advertising) as "mildly corrosive". Either the primer uses potassium chlorate or it doesn't. If it does, it is corrosive. Even some of the old British primers that had both potassium chloate and mercury fulminate had as much of the former as other primers did (the primer cup was larger than either the German or American ones).

How corrosive is corrosive? Let me give you an example. One morning some years ago, I took out a brand new S&W Model 39 and made the mistake of firing it with corrosive ammunition. It was one of those hot, humid days, common in summer in the Washington area. I stopped shooting around noon, and went in to work at 3:30, taking the barrel with me. I went immediately to the restroom (at the Pentagon!) and scrubbed the barrel, using a bore brush and a lot of hot water. Too late. The barrel was already frosted (and still is).

So how long until a barrel rusts? As little as 3-4 hours in the worst conditions.

Jim

 

[cracked butt]

In practical terms, there is no such thing (except in advertising) as "mildly corrosive".

+1

I was thinking more along the lines of 'slightly pregant=mildly corrosive' analogywise.

 

[cracked butt]

Any ideas on keeping the bore shiny? My closet is pretty humid, but my other guns haven't had bore oxidation.

Do you keep them in gun cases or simply stand them up in the closet?
Gun cases are a great place to put guns if you want them to rust.

Try leaving the closet dor open slightly to humidity to equalize with the outside air, and use a good metal proetectant such as Breakfree or remoil in the bore.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Mildly corrosive?

I think there might be more to this than meets the eye. (Right off the bat, I'm no expert here, I'm just sharing what I've seen).

I use the following method to test surplus ammo to see if it is corrosive or not:

1) Sand an old steel plate until shiny. Mark off a few sections using a sharpy pen.

2) Pull a bullet from one of each test cartridge, and dump the powder. Hold the case in a pair of vice grips and put the mouth of the case near the steel plate. Heat the primer with a propane torch. Watch primer pop out, and be glad you are wearing goggles and ear muffs.

3) Do the same with a modern commercial round, as a control.

4) Put into a damp area and wait overnight. The next morning, lightly clean off the soot and look for pitting.

Sometimes you see a little pitting, and sometimes you see a lot, even side by side on the same plate. Perhaps my method is too inexact to really show what's going on, but this is what leads me to believe that some ammo is worse than others.

Perhaps it's just a function of dampness. All I can say for sure is that this stuff can surprise you sometimes, and when it surprises you, you get really mad. :banghead:

 

[M2 Carbine]

There's a product called Corrosion X.
It isn't a cleaner as such but it will penetrate to the metal and stop corrosion.

Do a search on it and see what you think.

The helicopters I flew, in the Gulf of Mexico are operating in one of the most corrosive atmospheres you will find. EVERYTHING that can rust, does rust and very fast.

The best stuff we found to use on the choppers is Corrosion X. It also won't hurt anything that I know of, plastic, wood, electrical equipment, etc.
Stuff like CX that we used earlier attacked some things like electrical connections.

I use CX on the guns but not as a first line lube, it may be a terrific lube to but I just can't get away from old time oil.

 

[jefnvk]

Don't forget the bolt face, the rails, the gas tube, and anything else that got powder residue on it, because if it got powder residue on it, it got primer residue, too, and that's where the salt is.

Don't forget the outside of the gun, too. End of the muzzle, last few inches of the outside of the bore, if it is a semi, the reciever area.

 

[BigSlick]

There's a product called Corrosion X.

This stuff works - period.

One of my shooting buddies is an avid Garand freak. After a few years of fondling and shooting his I took the plunge and bought one.

I purchased a can of Korean ammo on enblocs (to get the enblocs) and took it out for an afternoon at the range. Low 90's and humid as a steam bath.

I went thru about 250 rounds of the stuff. All went bang, accuracy varied, but overall it wasn't bad.

When I bought the ammo, it was available in a 400 round can (in boxes) or the 384 round can on enblocs. The boxed ammo was advertised as boxer, non-corrosive. It was right next to the ammo on enblocs.

About a week after I got back from shooting I decided to process the brass and get a can of IMR4895 and find the sweet spot on my new (to me) Garand. I broke a decapping pin on the first round. I thought wow, the Koreans really crimp their brass. No biggie, I had a spare pin. Next round, primer wouldn't budge. I get a light and check out the inside of the case - it's berdan primed.

I called the place I bought the ammo from and told them somehow some berdan primed stuff had gotten mixed up with the boxer. NP, bring it back and swap it out - great

I got to the store with what's left of the ammo in the can and THEN noticed, the ammo on the enblocs was noted (in damned small print I might add) as 'mildly corrosive'.

My heart jumped up in my throat MY NEW GARAND IS SITTING HOME RUSTING AWAY I hit the bricks and got home fast. Ran in the house, fumbled the safe combo three times and finally got it open.

I took the Garand to the bench and grimaced as I pulled the bolt back. Everything looked ok. I put a bore light on it, the bore was fine. I called my shooting buddy and told him the ammo we were shooting was corrosive and he should check his Garand and do it quick.

He tells me he has shot lots of the Korean on enblocs and all of it was corrosive... he already knew that. Then he released the magic words that were music to my ears..

That's why I squirted a dose of Corrosion X down the barrels and all in the actions before we left the range, whaddya think I'm an idiot ?

I remembered him doing that and telling me, this will help make cleaning easier.

I usually do the same with CLP, I just figured he had fallen prey to some new fangled snake oil salesman and let it go.

Corrosion X is some seriously good stuff. It cuts crud like nothing else and is pretty cheap. I bought the squirt bottle and have been using it for almost a year and still haven't used it all up.

It might be worth keeping a bottle in your range bag.

BigSlick

 

[cortez kid]

Just a side note. Those "only $120" sks's are slowly disapearing. You can still get $95 shooters, but the're starting to climb in price and availability is going down. Unissueds are more like $200 than $150. I see them om A.A. for $158, but there is shipping and ffl fee's to consider. That's for Yugo's. Russians are nearly $500. Keep her clean, you won't be sorry a few years down the road.
good shootin
kid

 

[brickeyee]

” Shooting a little WD-40 down the barrel at the range won't take hardly any time at all, and it will provide a protective barrier between the gun's steel and the atmoshpere's oxygen.”

The oxygen is not the problem, the water vapor in the air is the problem. Every little spec of potassium will act as a little battery if any electrolyte is available and proceed to perform a little plating act on the barrel steel and corrode it away.
WD-40 displaces water and may provide some protections temporarily, but since putting the steel back into the pits is not generally an option may not be a good idea without careful testing.
A prompt cleaning with anything containing good old water to dissolve the salts is still the best method going. Followed by protection form the water.
Hot water works best since it will dissolve more material faster and the heat helps with drying out before the water itself can start rusting things.