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How would you handle this one?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Balrog, Nov 30, 2019.

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  1. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I was told the story of this incident. How should it have been handled?

    A guy is hauling some cedar wood in a trailer he intends to use for woodworking. He stops for gas. He is pumping the gas, with the door to his vehicle open. He has a Glock under his seat, and it is within reach.

    Two unsavory men approach. They ask him what he is hauling. He says cedar wood. They ask him what he is going to do with it. He tells them woodworking. They ask if they can have it. He says no, he is going to use it for woodworking. One of them then asks, what if we just take it?

    What should the guy's next move be?

    Let's here opinions, and then I will reveal how he handled it.

    For purposes of this discussion, he has a concealed carry permit and is in a state where he can legally transport a loaded firearm, and has a stand your ground law in place.
     
  2. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Someone would have a glock in there face.
     
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  3. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    There's not nearly enough detail for me to say what I'd do. But preferably I'd get in my vehicle and leave, whilst being very aware that I have a gasoline pump at my disposal, and the knowledge that being soaked with gasoline isn't a comfortable state of being for most people.
     
  4. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Saying he is going to take it one thing. Actually doing it another. Is some cedar worth possibly getting killed or injured for?
    Chuckle and get on with pumping gas. If vehicle has remote alarm press the button. Then press help button on pump if available. Now anyone around has their attention on the vehicle. Odds high they won't want to be around at that point. If they try anything soak them in gas but only if they are together. If other is at distance decide if cedar is really worth it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  5. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Street games need “street” responses...

    Won’t spell out here exactly how I’d respond...
    but here’s exactly how I dealt with something that occurred a few years back...

    I’m a full time fishing guide down here in south Florida (after 22 years as a cop... retired out in 1995). Right around 5am, towing my skiff, I stopped at a convenience store for a bag of ice and was confronted by a drunk who asked for money. When I said NO he produced a small folding knife and said “how ‘bout I take it”...
    I stood my ground, looked him right in the eye and without raising my voice told him exactly what I would do with his knife if he didn’t put it away...

    I do not carry a sidearm (not even once in the 24 years since I retired- even though I’ve had a carry permit always...). The only thing I had going for me was my street skills that morning and the ability to convince my opponent that I absolutely meant what I said...
     
  6. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    This. Another way to put is applying OODA tactics. I don’t carry even though I have a permit, but *always* remain situationally aware. BGs aren’t prepared for a defensive response.....they are looking for easy targets.
     
  7. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    Not enough info? But just going by the post I'm gonna pick the scarier of the two and give him a heart check the moment those words come out his mouth. We will see if he loves cedar wood more than me. I don't think he does.
     
  8. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    If he has a concealed carry permit, why the hell is the Glock under the seat and not on his belt?
     
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  9. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I don't know, but it was within easy reach so maybe he didnt think he needed it on his belt while driving.
    What difference would it have made in your mind in this situation?
     
  10. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    What other information did you need that was left out?
     
  11. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    On the other hand if my chances don't look hot or I forgot my fighting shirt that day I'll just toss them the keys.
     
  12. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    Exact location of pump, filler cap on car and location of the cedar coveteers. On an ol skool truck with the filler cap right behind the cab you could just reach forward and come up shooting if needed/warranted.
     
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  13. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    So the truck was parked with driver side door next to pump, about 2 feet away, in the usual position one would be in to pump gas. The filler would be just behind the cab of truck on driver side, in the usual location it is on all US made trucks. The cedar was on a trailer behind the truck. The Glock was under the seat and within easy reach from where he was.
     
  14. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    The difference would be the proximity of those scumbags and how accessible the firearm was to them, as well as the dexterity and speed of your friend. Just because a firearm is readily available doesn't mean you can deploy it fast enough to deal with the threat...

    Physical locations and other factors such as people in the area, location, etc. would also matter in the response.
     
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  15. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Where were the bad actors?
     
  16. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I guess the questions I have are:

    Is there a way to de-escalate the situation verbally?
    A felony has been threatened, is it OK to produce said Glock and ask them to go away?
     
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  17. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    I'm not trying to be a dick, just saying...that Glock was under the seat in easy reach...was it in a case? holstered? Loaded? If so, condition 1 or condition 3?

    Lots to consider...
     
  18. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    The scumbags were 6-8 feet away and did not know there was a weapon under the seat and it was not accessible to them. It was close enough to the guy pumping gas that he could immediately access it.
     
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  19. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    Loaded, round chambered, in holster under seat.
     
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  20. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Verbally de-escalating is always best, when possible. The odds would depend on the "motivation of the thieves to comply".

    As far as stand your ground laws, there are differences between states. Can you use lethal force to defend life and limb? Sure. A load of wood worth $250? Maybe not.
     
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  21. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    Yes you can use lethal force to defend life and limb here, though I am not sure that was threatened. You can't use lethal force to defend property. But if you are standing there when someone tries to steal from you, you have to wonder if they are going to do harm to you. The wood was valuable, and if stolen would have been a felony theft.
     
  22. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    There are places where lethal force can be used to defend property. Legally.
     
  23. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    Not here though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  24. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    This might be a good time to try the old Massad Ayoob trick of forking over a $20 and telling them they look thirsty.
     
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  25. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    OK, let's look at the practicality of this. They would have to either: (a) unload the wood from the trailer and load it into their own conveyance, or (b) unhitch the trailer and hitch it to their own vehicle. Or maybe steal the guy's truck and the trailer.

    Except for the latter possibility, these sound like major undertakings.

    Seems to me that these "unsavory characters" were just blowing smoke. Notice that they didn't threaten the victim directly. The "threat" was stated as a hypothetical.

    I would have just ignored them until they started to escalate. Then it would become a matter of self defense.
     
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