How would you rate the ruggedness of a Mini-14/30 to an AK or an AR?

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FFS - if a guy can’t find a pile of “AR vs. AK,” or “AR vs. Mini-14” info online, then they didn’t look...
AR vs AK, yes.

Mini 14/30, not nearly as much is out there, and these rifles have changed a lot in recent years, so you get a lot of people that only have knowledge and experience with older models.

Also, when you belong to a particular forum, you sorta get to know which members are the real deal, and who can be trusted after a while. I like this forum because there are a lot of older members that understand that guns have other purposes besides waiting for the end of days while devoting your life to Call of Duty. I would NEVER ask such a question on an AR or AK forum. You almost need waders to make your way through all the BS memes and Internet fights to get a legit answer from someone, and even then, you're on a specialty site were people seem to have a blind devotion to one platform over the other.
 
Reading the link above 'hating on the Mini-14' I find it incredible that their rifles couldn't hit man sized targets at 70 yards. Something was VERY wrong with the rifles...could they have been THAT fouled? Or was it just inexperienced shooters sucking that badly?

That smells like BS to me. I'm not a great shot, but I can hit targets that are significantly smaller than an adult male at that range. If I can bust a flower pot at 100 with mine, I would certainly expect that the same gun could hit a man at 70. Hell, I could probably whip up some unholy combination of 2x4s, pipe, and hose clamps that could hit a target at that range.

It sounds to me as though the author did not like the Mini, and was exaggerating its drawbacks. It's common knowledge that the Mini isn't a precision rifle, but it sure isn't THAT bad.

The impression I got was that the author threw all his experiences with the Mini-14 + the kitchen sink into that article and I'm betting he did have an officer having a hard time hitting a silhouette at 75 yards.

Not all police officers are gun guys or gun gals.

Most of the officers that I've gone to classes with were paying their own way for that class and they were appropriately proficient in their use of a firearm. In a couple cases though it was pretty clear that they believed (correctly) that they needed some more instruction and that they were there because of another student. Sometimes you gotta crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run ... and so on.

If that's the case here then that's hardly the fault of the rifle.

I've never run across a Mini-14 that couldn't do minute of milk jug at 100 yards. I'm not saying that they aren't out there, just that I haven't run across one.

Most of the accuracy that I've seen from Mini's were about on par with AK's and those tended to be about fist sized groups at 100y.
 
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Flawed question.
OP's question is "Is a Tacoma any better than a HMMV or Land Rover?"
Well, wo of those can go 70mph, and one can't. One can carry 2500# of cargo cross-country and the other two are iffy (although hone will tote 1500# depending upon model).
Non sequitur.
If you want a Mini-14, buy one. Don't ask me--I thought that they were too high at $149.95 in the '85 Montgomery-Wards catalog; so, I'm biased.
 
Member "Browning" has some good posts in this thread. Read those.

I'm one of those cops who didn't start out as a "gun-guy", but wanted to be and became a lot more knowledgeable during my LE career, but still learning.

MINI-14. To answer the OP, if there was a particular series of standardized tests, perhaps we'd figure out what "ruggedness" actually means.
Some thoughts on the Mini 14/30. I've only owned an older, first series (I think it was a series 181, unless there was even an older series). I was only a little bit concerned if it ever broke, which it never did, as it's my understanding Ruger would somehow give credit or a discounted price on a new one since the older series was not being supported with no old, dedicated parts available.

This was pre-internet and somewhere along the line someone must have mentioned to me it might break something, like an extractor, but again, it never broke while I owned it. I probably didn't put more than 1,000 rounds through it. Accuracy was fine for me at 50 yards.

MINI-30, no experience. I've seen a few at the range, but never owned or even shot one. I bought an M1A Scout and still have it. I must have a few thousand through the M1A, perhaps 3K-5K rounds.

AK47. Same 7.62x39 caliber as a Mini-30. I've got a (Yugo) Zastava "NPAP Mod. 70" through Century Arms (aka CAI). AK47 guns are many and can all be different. Some are unreliable new, out-of-the-box. Others, like mine (so far) are fine. I've only shot it twice, however, totaling 520 rounds, all steel-cased TULA ammo. I'll get to 2K rounds, at least, later this year as I've recently just bought it.

Do see this guy's Youtube channel (AK Operators' Union) for specific sample-of-one reviews on various brands and models over the recent years: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-nZ9dKQroaCr2MuAXeqyg

AR-15. I was issued a Colt AR-15 when I was working. My first one, new, out-of-the-box, and a problem destroying gas rings. I couldn't get through 5 rounds before there were failures to eject and failures to feed. I actually remember wishing I could just use my personal Mini-14, above. I was then issued a somewhat used department AR-15. This worked OK.

Some problems back then (~2001) was Russian steel-cased ammo (for practice only) would often fail to feed. Putting a rod down muzzle-end of the barrel would easily free up the round. I still see this occurring at the public range with many owners' AR-15s using a variety of ammo.

The other problem was the FIXED stock loosened up after rattling around in a patrol SUV for several thousand miles and lost some kind of spring-loaded detent parts. I'm not an AR-15 armorer and still don't know what this detent's purpose is for (edited to add: I believe it was a takedown pin detent & spring which tensions the takedown pin).

Otherwise, the AR-15 was generally reliable.

Final Thoughts. Any of these can (& will eventually) break. Any specific rifle may outlast another, despite what these samples-of-one do. To me, some other important considerations are: which rifle do you just want?; ergonomics; caliber; your intended use/mission; possible anticipated accessories, if any; anticipated target/threat distances; overall price (initial purchase, ammo); when/if it does break, how will it be get handled and how long will it take; if necessary, consider a spare to fill the "need".
 
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Reading the link above 'hating on the Mini-14' I find it incredible that their rifles couldn't hit man sized targets at 70 yards. Something was VERY wrong with the rifles...could they have been THAT fouled? Or was it just inexperienced shooters sucking that badly?

I'm not a Mini fan, but I'll agree with this - smoothbore shotguns with saboted slugs (not rifling stabilized at all) will shoot better than man sized torso's at 70yrds....
 
I've posted before: I've had four Minis. Two blued; two stainless. I mostly traded them off for profit, not from dislike. I always used a Weaver K-4 on a B-Square mount. I guess that I put most of 2,000 rounds through one of them.

All would give me a three-shot group of around 1.5 MOA. What pleased me the most was that the first shot from a cold, clean barrel would be within an inch of POA at 100 yards from my benchrest. Plenty good for jackrabbits and coyotes.
 
I can’t speak to durability, reliability or accuracy, etc. I enjoyed my Mini-14, and my WARS-10s. But, the fact that the AR-15 is a modular platform means I can build it one piece at a time, and repair it quite easily. While I like all three equally, I will take a modular platform any day. It is the same reason I buy Savages, Remington 870s and Glocks. Buy what you enjoy, and enjoy it.

JMHO,

Geno
 

"1) Mini-14 Accuracy sucks. The rifles we had were 5-6 MOA guns AT BEST. From a prone and rested position, my officers could rarely keep all their rounds in the chest of a silhouette at 75 yards. Even the newer “more accurate” guns that I’ve seen in my classes haven’t been better than 3 MOA"

:rofl::neener::barf::confused::eek::p

ROFLFAO.... 75 yards? I had to look the guy up, he is nothing more than a tactical sales person. Of course he was paid to push the AR15. If you cant hit a target at 75 yards with any mini 14, then it is not the rifle. You have got to be kidding me with this trash.... 75yards? LEARN HOW TO SHOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
 
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I was thinking about this 'poor accuracy' thing, and got to wondering what kind of maintenance they were lavishing on these rifles? Having known some people who believed that cleaning a rifle meant a swab of Hoppes 9 down the bore followed by a couple passes with a brush and followed up with another patch. Done! With high volume shooting I bet those rifles were heavily fouled with both carbon and copper and especially with a new rifle the bores sometimes need some TLC to get broken in or they'll pack right up and not shoot worth a darn.

A friend was complaining about his rifle not shooting well...and claimed that he'd cleaned it but it didn't help. I was curious so offered to look at it for him and found the thing amazingly dirty. Took several hours of Sweets followed by scrubbing with #9 then repeat as each layer of copper then carbon came out. Had a whole pile of patches before it finally got down to barrel steel, and don't you know that rifle shot pretty well afterwards....for a while until it got all crudded up again.:( Unless the armorers were VERY diligent....and it sounds like they might not have been, their rifles might have indeed been bad shooters..but I really don't think it's fair to blame the rifles.

Granted the Mini's aren't 'target grade' rifles, and will not like being subjected to high volume fire, but that's what you get with a light carbine. If abused they'll respond by sucking badly...but I still love mine.:)
 
Unfortunately a plethora of smiley faces doesn't address the parts breakage or the lack of available factory Ruger parts being sold to the general public to repair those rifles.

It also doesn't address its mediocre accuracy in comparison with semi-auto rifles that have a military lineage while at the same time managing to perform in challenging conditions. It just wasn't made for that.

Could an accurized version compete at Camp Perry? Can it manage to shoot more than one rd when dirty? Obviously not. It's a semi hunting rifle. If Remington had of made one of the 7400 series of rifles a little more handy, chambered it in .223 and made some higher capacity mags someone would probably be throwing a fit online when someone pointed out that it's not that great of a choice as a police and military carbine.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/27/ruger-mini-14-lets-get-real/

This article mirrors my thoughts ...

If you want a Mini-14 buy one.

If you want a carbine for a specific purpose, however, and provided have access to virtually any other modern carbine design, pick just about anything else. I say this not to disparage Ruger or the people who own Minis, but because it’s difficult to ignore the Mini’s limitations compared to other, more modern designs.
We at TFB are no strangers at all to cool gunsthat are not as practical as they could be. TFBTV has done run-and-guns with obsolete military bolt action rifles, not because they are the best possible fighting tool today, but because it’s fun, and we want to. If that’s where you are coming from with the Mini-14, then by all means, indulge yourself. And there’s good reason to like the Mini, despite its flaws. I do. ...
Others have driven the issue of the Mini’s practicality into the dirt. They are inaccurate, difficult to disassemble, break often, jam more frequently, and handle dust and debris much more poorly than more modern designs.

They are plagued with issues stemming from their origins in John Garand's 1920's-era design, some of which have been exacerbated by the economization measures taken during the rifle’s development. If you don’t believe me, you can ask any number of experts on the Mini, from Greg Ellifritz to former Ruger quality assurance manager Ed Harris.
Not only that, but in an era of sub-$400 AR-15s, Mini-14s aren’t even remotely comparable in cost to their competition, much less cheaper as they used to be. So, for someone looking for an inexpensive, decent carbine for work, not pleasure, the Mini makes no sense. Why bother.
[continued]
Former Ruger quality assurance managers thoughts on the Mini-14

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2012/02/ed-harris-my-observations-on-the-ruger-mini-14/

Ruger Mini14 dirt test
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ts-rifle-dust-tests-mini-14-aug-arx-100-scar/





It's not a bad rifle when considering what it is, a reasonably accurate varmint hunting and plinking rifle.

However it was a semi-auto mag fed hunting and plinking rifle that was pressed into a police and sometimes paramilitary role because there were few civilian rifles of its time period in the 70's and 80's that didn't look quite as 'scary'.

In a police or military role it's not the best choice. That doesn't mean that it's useless, it just means that it's ill-suited in that role.
 
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"1) Mini-14 Accuracy sucks. The rifles we had were 5-6 MOA guns AT BEST. From a prone and rested position, my officers could rarely keep all their rounds in the chest of a silhouette at 75 yards. Even the newer “more accurate” guns that I’ve seen in my classes haven’t been better than 3 MOA"

:rofl::neener::barf::confused::eek::p

ROFLFAO.... 75 yards? This is the biggest bunch of bull S--- I've ever read. I had to look the guy up, he is nothing more than a tactical sales person. Of course he was paid to push the AR15. If you cant hit a target at 75 yards with any mini 14, then it is not the rifle. You have got to be kidding me with this trash.... 75yards? FFS! LEARN HOW TO SHOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

most competent shooters can hit a steel silhouette at 75 yards with a decent handgun. I know I sure can with my Ruger Blackhawk 357, and I'm nothing special. This guy is full of ****.
 
I’ve owned, shot, been fond of all of them at one time of another. I’ll rank them overall.

1. AR, this would have been #2 ten years ago. But the new batch is extremely accurate, very reliable, lots of rounds to wear one out. Endless parts options.

2. AK. I don’t know that you can really wear one out. It would be a lot of rounds for one to quit functioning. Extremely reliable. Mine even feed rusty steel case ammo. Accuracy is hit and miss. I had a saiga that would do 1.5 moa with hand loads. But your average AK with steel case is 3 moa. I’d say the sks is right there with it.

3. Mini rifles. The 14’s are reliable. My experience with the 30 is that you need to feed it brass case hunting ammo for it to be reliable. Some of the nicer new 14’s are close to 1 moa guns. Most the older ones are 2-3. I’ve only been around 2 30’s and they were both 3 or so.

In conclusion. I’m not a mini fan, I’d buy one if it was cheaper than an AR, but a good one is not. AK’s are a personal taste kinda gun. I’ve had great luck with short range hunting with them. They are one of the most reliable weapons built. Right up there with a revolver.
The modern AR15 rifles are solid. They really offer an awesome package of reliability, accuracy, price, and longevity. It took me a long time to warm up to them though. They are about all I shoot any more. (AR10)
 
most competent shooters can hit a steel silhouette at 75 yards with a decent handgun. I know I sure can with my Ruger Blackhawk 357, and I'm nothing special.
A Ruger Blackhawk is kinda a precision firearm. It’s basically the rem700 of revolvers. I’d bet in some sort of pistol vice you’d have little trouble pulling close to MOA out of one. Barrel length has no effect on accuracy. Just the shooters ability to precisely place a shot if your running open sights.
 
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In 1976 I finally had some extra money to buy a .223 rifle to use up the 5.56 ammo I had access to in reserves (but was only issued a pistol) and chose the Mini 14 because of my positive combat experiences with the M14 platform. I got a 180 series I think it was 76 anniverary maked , but dont remember because it was stolen in 1982 in a break in robbery :( . It had the bolt roller and allways seemed to work OK with the 3 20 round Ruger mags I had for it . I don't know about paper accuracy I think it was 2 inches or so at 100 years when I first sighted it in. I used it first on a large ranch as foreman for a couple years (had been using a win 94 25-35) and as a truck rifle until it got stolen inside my home from a cheap steel gun cabinet which was pried open :(. I had put a Pachmayr Lo swing scope mount on it with a 3x Leupold and thought my self well armed. I replaced it with an HK93 with a cased .22LR adapter set I bought at Gunsite in 1983 as I was into KK91 for early practical rifle competitions. I can tell you HK 93's are VERY robust , far more than any other platform I have ever seen before or since. My son has the HK 93 with with a bazzillion rounds thru it. I eventually went to AR system for 5.56 use in later 80s, reluctantly at first but the SP1 CAR was VERY light and honestly was reliable , I now have 10 ARs and they are very reliable.
 
A Ruger Blackhawk is kinda a precision firearm. It’s basically the rem700 of revolvers. I’d bet in some sort of pistol vice you’d have little trouble pulling close to MOA out of one. Barrel length has no effect on accuracy. Just the shooters ability to precisely place a shot if your running open sights.

It's an accurate handgun, but not anymore accurate than a 1911, CZ-75, Beretta 92 etc. I think where it kills any of these guns is the round. 357 out of a 6.5" barrel with good ammo shoots pretty darn flat at longer ranges. Especially when compared to 45ACP.

I've hunted hogs with my blackhawk and heavy 180 grain hard cast loads. I'm very comfortable with taking a shot in the 50 yard range with it.
 
It's an accurate handgun, but not anymore accurate than a 1911, CZ-75, Beretta 92 etc. I think where it kills any of these guns is the round. 357 out of a 6.5" barrel with good ammo shoots pretty darn flat at longer ranges. Especially when compared to 45ACP.

I've hunted hogs with my blackhawk and heavy 180 grain hard cast loads. I'm very comfortable with taking a shot in the 50 yard range with it.

Your being modest, there is now way any 1911, cz75, or especially a beretta is going to come close to accuracy compared to a blackhawk without a couple thousand dollars of custom work! Hard to compete with a revolver in terms of shear accuracy until you get to single shots.
 
Unfortunately a plethora of smiley faces doesn't address the parts breakage or the lack of available factory Ruger parts being sold to the general public to repair those rifles.

It also doesn't address its mediocre accuracy in comparison with semi-auto rifles that have a military lineage while at the same time managing to perform in challenging conditions. It just wasn't made for that.

Could an accurized version compete at Camp Perry? Can it manage to shoot more than one rd when dirty? Obviously not. It's a semi hunting rifle. If Remington had of made one of the 7400 series of rifles a little more handy, chambered it in .223 and made some higher capacity mags someone would probably be throwing a fit online when someone pointed out that it's not that great of a choice as a police and military carbine.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/27/ruger-mini-14-lets-get-real/

This article mirrors my thoughts ...


Former Ruger quality assurance managers thoughts on the Mini-14

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2012/02/ed-harris-my-observations-on-the-ruger-mini-14/

Ruger Mini14 dirt test
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ts-rifle-dust-tests-mini-14-aug-arx-100-scar/





It's not a bad rifle when considering what it is, a reasonably accurate varmint hunting and plinking rifle.

However it was a semi-auto mag fed hunting and plinking rifle that was pressed into a police and sometimes paramilitary role because there were few civilian rifles of its time period in the 70's and 80's that didn't look quite as 'scary'.

In a police or military role it's not the best choice. That doesn't mean that it's useless, it just means that it's ill-suited in that role.


Unfortunately, a plethora of opinion based articles say nothing about facts or statistics on just how many Mini 14's did break with LE dept. But I could really give a crap less about TFB and a idiot that pours dirt into their rifle. I've been hunting in the thick woods and swaps along side Old Man River for well over 20 years and never got crap like that in my Mini 14.

Here is something that is real:
1. 2015 Paris Attacks. French Police equipped with Mousqueton AMD (Mini 14) take out terriost with full auto AK47's and bombs:


2. San Bernardino Shooting 2015. Local P.D. equipped with Ranch Mini 14's take out hostiles with AR15's:


3. 1986 Miami Shootout. The Gun fight that changed Law Enforcement forever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlSCE88UhyA
Pretty impressive for a ill suited rifle, wouldn't you say?

The one article that you did highlight was the one by Ed Harris. That is not only an article on what is wrong with the Mini 14, but how to fix it. Did you even read it? If you guys would have taken the time with a Mini 14 as you do with your AR's you could have had one hell of a rifle. Reduce the gas bushing, install recoil buffers, a stiffer recoil spring wouldn't hurt, and maybe bed the action. But if you cut back on the gas system reducing the recoil of the slide assembly, the Mini 14 will last twice as long as you. I'm not saying the Mini 14 is better than the AR15 or AK47, but it is not the junk rifle people make it out to be, just junk owners.

Also, why cant you guys find parts for the Mini 14? Ever heard of Numrich? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/ruger/rifles-ruger/mini-14
 
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I bought a barely used second generation Mini-14. Original owner maybe put fifty rounds through it on an unsuccessful mission to shoot squirrels due to its factory design of 5moa. He couldn’t find any giant mutant squirrels so the rifle resided in his safe for awhile. After I became owner of said rifle I found it to be a more comfortable platform to use in multigun gun and rifle/Carbine events. The USPSA multigun and rifle/carbine events I attend usually have about seventy plus entrants and the majority of the rifles are AR’s with a smattering of AK’s, Garands, M14 variants, and Mini-14’s. The only ones that have not stopped or completely failed are the AK’s and Mini-14’s.

Modifications to my Mini-14 consist of trigger work bringing the pull to a very nice 3.5#’s; Hogue stock with an additional attachment point for a bi-pod; different size gas bushing; attention to the bedding; centering of the gas block; and barrel strut to the stock barrel. Accuracy with bulk 55 grain 193 ammo is an honest 2moa. Amount of ammo expended per event is anywhere from 150 to 300 cartouches and the rifle has been both accurate and reliable to a fault.
 
The mud test. I am sure it has been posted here before , but here it is again. The myth just is not true.

 
Short of the police instructor (who authored the first article) having a log sheet showing what part broke on what gun and on what date, its maintenance records and what was done to repair it I'm not sure what evidence would convince you that it's a poor choice for a high round count, frequently used rifle.

To be fair he was training officers at the time. I don't believe that he went into it knowing that he was going to be composing an article about how often the Ruger Mini-14 went down. That wasn't his focus, training officers was.

As for the rest of it, you could've saved your time. That's seriously what you have? French cops, the San Bernardino shootout and a shooting from 32 years ago?

I didn't see one Mini14 during the entire video from the 2015 Paris attacks (even though I know that some of their police use a French version of it) and more officers were armed with AR's and shotguns than Mini's in San Bernardino.

Paris
IMG_5930.JPG
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IMG_5929.JPG IMG_5926.JPG
Did you see any Mousqueton AMD's (Ruger Mini-14's)? I didn't either.
San Bernardino
IMG_5923.JPG IMG_5925.JPG IMG_5924.JPG
No Mini's here either.

Even if they use it? So what? It's just inertia from the past and trying to arm their police with a less threatening looking long gun. That doesn't mean that it's actually a good choice for a rifle that's frequently trained with.

I also never said that it couldn't be deadly. People have also been shot dead in massacres with Ruger 10/22's, that doesn't mean that I'd want to defend my home with one given the choice.

Besides, I'm less concerned with if some police force from a half a world away use the Mini-14 and I'm more concerned about how well it lasts with a high round count to possibly buy with my hard earned dollars.

From working at a gun store I already know that if a Ruger Mini-14 is going to get repaired it has to be sent back. Screw all that. I'm not going to be without my rifle because it broke a small easy to replace part and because some gun company wants to control every aspect of its use. I'll buy something else.

As to how well it works check out what I actually said from my previous posts.

I've had better luck with AR's and AK's than Mini's.

To be fair I haven't owned one of the new Mini 14's, just the older type.

On the Mini's that I've owned and fired the feeding was usually so-so (often depending on what mag and ammo was used), the ejection fantastic in that it send brass into friggin' orbit and the groups were generally okay

I stated that I've had better luck with other rifles. - True
I admitted that I've only ever owned and had experience with the older type of Mini-14. - True
Then I said that feeding was so-so depending on what mag I used. - True

Mags : The main problem I've had and seen in just about every Mini I've run across is feeding. Some of that might have been the fault of the mags that we were forced to use. Back in the 70's, 80's and 90's Ruger wouldn't sell their 20 rd mags to just any law abiding citizen, they had to be law enforcement.
...
Most of the other mags made for the Ruger Mini-14 by other companies did not work well. Fed Ord was an exception, those worked. Most of the others were horrible. Many shooters today might forget the mangled pieces of dung that we had to use to feed our rifles with back then.

Price : Back in the late 80's you could buy a Mini-14 for $225 and AR's were about twice that. Now that Mini's are $800 and AR's can be had for $450 it seems like their target audience are those shooters that like wooden stocks and those stuck in states where they can't own evil black rifles.

I spoke about how Ruger wouldn't sell standard capacity mags to the general public - True.
I stated that most aftermarket mags are less that stellar. - True
I spoke about how the accuracy that I've seen from Mini's has ranged from actually pretty good to not so good. - True
I spoke about how during the late 80's that you could buy two Mini's for one AR and that this has now switched - True.
I've never run across a Mini-14 that couldn't do minute of milk jug at 100 yards. I'm not saying that they aren't out there, just that I haven't run across one.

Most of the accuracy that I've seen from Mini's were about on par with AK's and those tended to be about fist sized groups at 100y.
I stated that I've never seen a Mini-14 that couldn't hit a milk jug in response to someone who said that their brother's rifle couldn't hit one and compared their accuracy with the AK. - True

It's not a bad rifle when considering what it is, a reasonably accurate varmint hunting and plinking rifle.
However it was a semi-auto mag fed hunting and plinking rifle that was pressed into a police and sometimes paramilitary role because there were few civilian rifles of its time period in the 70's and 80's that didn't look quite as 'scary'.
In a police or military role it's not the best choice. That doesn't mean that it's useless, it just means that it's ill-suited in that role.
I stated that it's not a bad rifle considering what it was meant to be and marketed as and spoke about how it was pressed into a police and paramilitary (France) role.

If you'd quit spazzing out about me dissing your favorite rifle you'd see that what I said is factually true.
 
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I don't want to be in this conversation but I can't resist... If I was looking to someone for advice on what assualt rifle I should have it would not be the French or Californian government!

Seriously though I really love the design of the mini but the small number of them I've shot or seen shot couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I'm certain a large percentage of them are plenty accurate and am very happy for those that have found them.
 
Mini 14/30, not nearly as much is out there, and these rifles have changed a lot in recent years, so you get a lot of people that only have knowledge and experience with older models.

I’ll have to admit while I have had a mini for decades I didn’t realize the differences between the Ranch version and the regular one until recently (not more than a couple years ago). What are the “lot” of changes they have made recently and any kind of timeline?

FWIW I was pretty impressed with his regular Mini 14 banging away on the 300 yard steel gong I have at 300 yards with the irons. My Ranch rifle didn’t seem as accurate even with optics from my memory but we didn’t have both side by side that day.
 
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