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HR 218 passes Senate & House

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Frohickey, Jul 7, 2004.

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  1. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    Okay, I just received an email from the LEAA...

    =====
    Urgent Alert from our friends at the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) www.leaa.org

    H.R. 218 Passes Senate
    The bill now heads to the President for his signature

    LEAA's 12 year fight for 'National Concealed Carry for Cops' is finally victorious in Congress. The Senate tonight passed H.R. 218 in a unanimous consent agreement. The House passed the bill back on June 23rd and it will now go to President Bush, who has indicated his strong support for the bill. For more information visit LEAA''s web site at www.leaa.org/218
    =====

    :scrutiny:
     
  2. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Member

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    *sigh* Super Citizens.
     
  3. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    Did it have any attachments?
     
  4. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    Police State here we come!
     
  5. Cacique500

    Cacique500 Member

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    That's an interesting quote from the LEAA site...
     
  6. jmcc11

    jmcc11 Member

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    Does anyone know where I can find the text of this bill?
     
  7. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    I wonder about the rest of us. I for one won't be voting for GWB if he signs this and he said he would. Like I said hello Police State!
     
  8. DBK

    DBK Member

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    It's a start! Now lets work on NATION CCW! If your driver license is valid, so should your CCW!
     
  9. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    If it passed without amendments, good.

    I can't say that I like being in a sub-class of citizens, but 99% of LEOs deserve this. Just because we can't get it for ourselves DOES NOT mean that we should stop another group; that's ridiculous.

    Also ridiculous is thinking that since LEOs can now CCW across all 50, we're suddenly a "police state". :rolleyes:

    Take the tinfoil hats off, please.
     
  10. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Member

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    No amendments. If an AWB was attached there would have been more noise, and the house would have demanded a conference committee. Looks like all the Senate did was pass the House version without amendment.

    What we should be looking at is the Class Action Bill that's being proposed and debated tommorow.
     
  11. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    I have talked with the LEAA during past gunshows and NRA annual meetings and have been said that National CCW for Law Enforcement is not the end goal of the group.

    I think that we need to hold the LEAA's feet to the fire and make sure that they lobby for National CCW for ALL CCW holders.

    Thats what I'm going to be writing them an email and letter about once HR218 has been signed by the President (since we can't stop it now).
     
  12. GEM

    GEM Member

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    I understand the opposition to the bill on the grounds that police do not get special privileges. I originally opposed this bill for that.

    However, my opinion changed for strategic reasons. Antigunners were against the bill. As we know, GWB hasn't exactly been proactive in expanding (or you might say restoring gun rights). Now he is forced to sign a progun bill (or it is for some). This is a foot in door, small committment from him which may increase the likelihood that he will sign other progun bills if they can get to him.

    Of course, we all hope the AWB doesn't get to him. I am more hopeful lately. I previously denounced GWB for his support of the AWB. Signing this bill may nudge him in the right direction.
     
  13. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    How can anyone who isn't a LEO think this is good?LOL Here the majority of the LEOs are backing Kerry. Everyone forget he is the one who wants to take your right to carry away. Maybe it is most think because a person is a LEO he is more law abiding then the other people who are out their. I got news they are no better then 95% of us non-LEOs
     
  14. DBK

    DBK Member

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    Backing Kerry? This is news to me! What is your source? The main-stream press?:rolleyes:
     
  15. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    It would be the head of their international union that backed Kerry You know who puts them in office???
     
  16. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    How'd the Anti's let this one slip past them? I was watching CSpan2 when it came up at like 7:15pm and I didnt even realize it passed, I guess Frist finally pulled a fast one on the antis.

    Now we've got to hold the LEAA to helping the rest of us get CCW.

    Kharn
     
  17. DBK

    DBK Member

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    Oh, I'm only a street cop, not part of the international union. And I don't even know the secret handshake.:rolleyes:
     
  18. Shootcraps

    Shootcraps Member

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    "LEAA and Congressman Cunningham believed that qualified off duty and retired law enforcement officers ought to have the tools to match their training whether they are traveling out of state, or retired. America's men and women in blue deserved the right to protect themselves and their families from threats that didn't go away at the state line and criminal grudges that didn't end at the officer's retirement party."


    I'm not so sure this is a good thing either. Where has it been proven that this is a need of the LEO community?

    From what I've read, somewhere around 60-75% of leo's don't give a hoot about guns and see them only as a tool for work. Would these folks take advantage of this?

    Would retired leo's take advantage of it? They're retired, maybe they don't want to do leo stuff anymore.

    And what about jurisdiction? A Cincinnati Policeman has no police powers outside of Cincinnati. What if he is carrying in Texas and starts acting like a cop and starts pushing citizens around?

    If they need protection across state lines or after their retirement party, maybe they should get in line and sign up for CCW's just like the rest of us. What's wrong with that?

    I agree that it's a strong pro-gun law. If GWB signs it, I think the LEAA should be seriously pushing for National CCW for all CCW holders. That's only fair.
     
  19. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

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    I hate the idea of police officers being a privledged citizen. It's not that I don't think they deserve the right to carry nationwide or anything -- I just really wish being a LEO wasn't associated with being the pinnacle of being an honest citizen.

    Maybe, just maybe, this could be turned into something that helps us all out. After LEOs get nationwide CCW we hijack the system, so to speak, and get an opportunity as regular citizens to go through police training, and yearly firearms qualification, for nationwide CCW.

    I do wonder though if this CCW is subject to state laws. Here if I have an unloaded and cased pistol on my passenger seat in a range bag it's considered illegal unless you have a CCW. If you have a BAC over 0.02 i'ts illegal even if you have a CCW. Granted, it's a law I'm OK with but I'd like to see the LEOs abide by it if I have to. What about schools or venues that hold over 2500 people?

    If they're granted the ability to do it it opens up a hole for us "serfs" too. A small hole, but there is hope there. On the other hand I hate the idea of somebody that "serves the public" being granted more rights than me.

    Bah.
     
  20. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    Shootcraps I agree with you They should just get a CCW like the rest of us. All I see anymore is the average American has less and less rights. Any nation that has passed strong anti-gun legislation has allowed the ones who represent the goverment to keep their guns. I do look at this not as a good think but as the start of a police state.
     
  21. blackdragon

    blackdragon Member

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    leaa

    I was fairly undecided on if this was a good thing or not, until I browsed the LEAA web site. Keep in mind these guys successfully lobbied 218 through.

    Article titles:

    Time Running Out for the Clinton Gun and Magazine Ban
    It was a bad law from the start...

    Cops versus Gun Control
    The simple truth in undeniable: rank-and-file cops oppose gun control.

    Self-Defense and the Armed Citizen
    ...Find out how gun control is killing law-abiding citizens...

    These guys definately appear to be on our side...and effective. Sounds like a group that would be good to support...

    Keith
     
  22. Shootcraps

    Shootcraps Member

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    I'll have to look at the bill and see what the conditions are for them to carry. There also need to be some serious consequences if they get out of line. Some leo's are not angels and might take liberties with this law. Remember a few years back when the big group of New York City cops went to a big Wash DC hotel for a convention? Their behavior made the wildest Frat party you ever heard of sound like kindergarten parties in comparison. And did any of them get punished? Nope. Why not? Professional courtesy.

    How many leo's are willing to arrest another leo who's disturbing the peace?
     
  23. Shootcraps

    Shootcraps Member

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    "Cops versus Gun Control
    The simple truth in undeniable: rank-and-file cops oppose gun control."


    Well when are they going to kick their leaders in the kiester and tell them to stop mis-representing them????
     
  24. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    With all due respect to the opinions of the many who have opposed this bill, I just don't see any downside. It's a foot in the door for national CCW or (more likely) mandated universal CCW reciprocity. The public view LEOs (rightly or wrongly) as being better trained and more stable than the general public, and thus are less opposed to allowing them to carry. One of the major arguments against the bill from the police heirarchy is that officers will be endangered by "stranger" officers with weapons in their jurisdictions. This hasn't happened, and when it doesn't happen after passage, that argument will hold just as much water as the "blood in the street" argument against CCW.

    Although I sympathize to a certain degree with those who feel that this creates a class of "super citizen," those who are vocal against it aren't the ones who are likely to actually need CCW. Yes, I believe that everyone who isn't a convicted felon or mentally defective should have the right to carry a conealed weapon, but in terms of actual malice directed against the carrier, the general public won't find someone coming at them that they put in jail a few years ago.

    Just my $.02 worth.
     
  25. Shootcraps

    Shootcraps Member

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    "It's a foot in the door for national CCW or (more likely) mandated universal CCW reciprocity.'


    ONLY if that foot belongs to LEAA, and they along with a majority of leo's really suport it. Once they have this, they could turn their backs on us with the argument that we aren't leo's and don't need national ccw.

    THEN they have to convince Congress and GWB that it's a good idea for the rest of us.
     
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