Human rights for monkeys

[European Courier]

Hello guys,

Here is something interesting and controversial. Spanish government wants to grant human rights to monkeys. Monkeys would not anymore be anyone’s property and would be placed under legal guardianship similar to that in cases of infants, handicapped and elderly people. The same political coalition supports the right to abortion and medical euthanasia, stating that great apes have more self-awareness than infants and elderly people. In consequence, monkeys would have more rights than unborn children. It is serious legislative proposal.

There is an article about it, which also explains ideological background behind the proposal:
http://europeancourier.org/Rights_for_Apes.htm

Here are other interesting articles about this issue, if you are interested:
http://monkeydaynews.blogspot.com/2006/04/spain-may-give-apes-human-rights.html

Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/10/wapes10.xml

BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5058986.stm

That’s something unusual.

Europe always has had bright ideas about how to change the world.

 

[Henry Bowman]

"Good morning, kids. I'm here to tell you about the olden days when I was young. Why I can remember back when monkeys and trees couldn't even vote!" *gasp* "No WAY!"

 

[Sindawe]

Spanish government wants to grant human rights to monkeys. Monkeys would not anymore be anyone’s property and would be placed under legal guardianship similar to that in cases of infants, handicapped and elderly people. The same political coalition supports the right to abortion and medical euthanasia, stating that great apes have more self-awareness than infants and elderly people. In consequence, monkeys would have more rights than unborn children. It is serious legislative proposal.

Sloppy sloppy sloppy. Great apes are NOT monkeys. Calling them such has as much validity as calling my self-loading rifle a machine gun.

On the topic itself, I can understand why some people would wish the proposed legislation to come to pass. Some of the great apes do recognize themselves when seen in a mirror (Koko is one IIRC, she's a gorilla), which to this laymans eyes passes the test for self-awareness. Their documented capacity to feel anxiety, grief and joy places them above the level of "biological automatons" such as insects and most molluscs. Of course, the same can be said for most of our pet animals and some of our prey species.

Controversial? You betcha! But this move by some in Spain is not one I'll lament. Humanity as for far too long considered itself the pinnacle of creation and later evolution. The evidence in the world shows this to be nothing more than willful fantasy and denial, IMAO.

 

[dev_null]

Question is, when they come to the US will they refuse to speak English and insist on having their speech made a recognized "second language?"

Anyway, I'm all for it. Hell, they could probably do a better job than most of the GS-13s out there!

 

[el44vaquero]

Starts with the vote and then will end up with....

 

[Lupinus]

I look at some of the people I see on a daily basis and have to wonder if giving the monkies the same rights would effect all that much

Welcome to my retail working hell

 

[Kim]

Just one more episode that some live in the kooky zone. The post christian era or post modern era is embraced by some as another enlightment. Reminds me of the not so great progessor Peter Singer the god father of PETA and so called animal rights in the US. Of coarse he is a utilitarian. He believes in abortion and killing of the frail, retarded, elderly etc. He also believes a parent should be able to kill their infant up until 1 year of age. And that great apes should be able to marry consenting adults and have sex with them. This is just more of the same and shows how humanity will degrade itself if left with only itself as its God. Sorry It makes me sad but I expect the world to become much more bizarre. Watch out people like me are specieists. Kinda like racists. Get it. Socialists always want to do away with religion and replace it with their deviance so goes this country with it newly elected Socialist Goverment. Pity them and I am afraid for us.

 

[Sindawe]

And that great apes should be able to marry consenting adults and have sex with them.

One would hope that most great apes have more sense than to become "romantically involved" with us insane talking monkeys.

Of course, living the lifestyle of a Bonobo does looks like its has its advantages.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Europe always has had bright ideas about how to change the world.

Not lately. You're joking, right?

 

[Preacherman]

great apes should be able to marry consenting adults and have sex with them

Consenting? Consenting? Ever tried refusing an insistent gorilla???

 

[jlbraun]

Do monkeys qualify for RKBA? (trying to keep things gun related)

 

[sm]

Well some Gubmint Folks have been Aping Elected Representatives sworn to " to protect from all enemies foreign and domestic" and have failed, continue to fail...

Nope, bad idea, See Wash DC for example....

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME,

YOUDAMNDIRTYAPES



I'm sorry folks, somebody had to say it.

 

[.41Dave]

I think they should not only be given rights, but should be allowed to run for congress. Monkeys in congress could only be an improvement over Democrats and the big-government socialists posing as Republicans these days. Besides, C-Span would be a LOT more interesting if congressmen and congresswomen and congressmonkeys threw feces at each other. The bonus would be that they would be so busy throwing poop that they might forget to pass more liberty-strangling laws!

 

[torpid]

Ahem...

APES are not monkeys.

If anyone wants to criticize me for being pedantic, then they'd best hold their tongue when hearing about "fully automatic revolvers".

.

 

[ccwolff]

Monkey with a gun- "Oo Oo Ah Ah"

Interpretation "From my cold, dead, hairy hands."

 

[cuchulainn]

Read the article. I don't see much in terms of "rights" being conferred/protected. Apes would be removed from zoos and placed in santuaries, where'd they'd presumably still be confined, just nicely with more room to do apey things. They'd be protected from mistreatment and "murder" (code for "medical experiments") but still could be put down like a sick dog (euthanized) if the human owners -- er, "guardians" -- deemed it necessary.

Eh? This is just a codification of "kindness to animals," using the word rights. I'm more offended by the dilution of the term rights than anything in the proposal itself. It's not like Spain is a hotbed for medical research.

On the other hand, juxtapose the allowance for euthanization with this sentence: "The said animals would be placed under “guardianship”, similar to that established in cases of infants, handicapped and elderly people."

Well, not quite, unless the Spanish are allowed to euthanize infants, handicapped and the elderly. Seems the apes would still be in their place, below humans, subject to death at the decision of humans.

That said, I grew up around farms. I don't "get" animal rights. Not one bit.

 

[Eleven Mike]

This is just a codification of "kindness to animals," using the word rights. I'm more offended by the dilution of the term rights than anything in the proposal itself.

Hallelujah! You have seen the light.

 

[HankB]

Once again, my choice of .sig seems appropriate . . . or perhaps, eerily prescient.

 

[cuchulainn]

Eleven Mike: Hallelujah! You have seen the light.

Which light would that be? That "animal rights" is simply codified "kindness to animals" (it's not usually, despite my observation about this case). Or that using the word rights to describe "kindness to animals" dilutes the concept of rights.

This law would be silly and self-contradictory. "Apes have 'rights,' but we'll confine them in camps, er sanctuaries, and kill them at the stroke of a pen." That's not "rights" -- imagine if such "guardianship" were imposed on the elderly, handicapped and infants. This makes a mockery of the concept of rights -- diluting the term rights.

 

[Art Eatman]

I dunno, cuchalainn. Just reading the first link, it would seem that these "serious politicians" would give them all the rights and perogatives of people, except for voting. I guess even they gotta admit that apes are a bit retarded. Perhaps they are believed to compare to the Florida Democrats who couldn't follow the arrows--and thus wouldn't vote Socialist.

Now, the idea of "state built and publicly funded sanctuaries" calls to mind examples of the numerous existing facilities here in the U.S. I hestitate to list any of these because of the number of our THR members who are trapped therein...

The bright spot in all this is that we now know without doubt that kookiness knows no geograhical limits; it's not confined to the state and federal capitals of the U.S.

I didn't read far enough to discover what procedures would follow the sad passing of one of these great creatures, after leaving us behind in his journey to the great Banana Tree In The Sky.

Art

 

[Working Man]

Those b@$****$, they finally did it!

What's next Soylent Green?

 

[cuchulainn]

Art Eatman: Just reading the first link, it would seem that these "serious politicians" would give them all the rights and perogatives of people, except for voting.

I think you're confusing the content of this law with the desire of The Great Ape project and its brethren. Would these people "give them all the rights and perogatives of people" if they could? Yep. Are they in this law? No.

They're just transfering the apes to a nicer facility, protecting them from "medical research" and setting up the rules for when the human masters, er guardians, can kill the primates.

Maybe this law should be opposed as a camel's nose. Maybe it should be opposed for sillines. Maybe it should be opposed for diluting the term rights.

I think they should teach the apes skills -- like basket weaving -- and let them earn livings for the state before euthanizing them. Then they could put a big sign up at the gate: "El Trabajo te Libera"

 

[Henry Bowman]

Do monkeys qualify for RKBA? (trying to keep things gun related)

All it requires is an enlightened, expansive interpretation of "the people." Clearly, it was nothing more than the Founding Fathers bigotry and chavanistic anglocentric views that kept them from appreciating the full scope of who/what comprises "the people."

 

[dev_null]

Clearly, it was nothing more than the Founding Fathers bigotry and chavanistic anglocentric views that kept them from appreciating the full scope of who/what comprises "the people."

I know this was humorously intended, but it's a bit of a glib dismissal of the racism of the times (which was realized and discussed by the Founders), and the sexism (which probably wasn't, except by Dolly Madison's husband whatsisname ).