Hunting Pack

[H&Hhunter]

RJTravel

Why would the bleach drops not work in Colorado?

 

[Bobson]

How long do those straws work? How do you know when they need to be replaced?

 

[witchhunter]

The straws work for a while until they become clogged. They are very hard to use though, like trying to suck a very thick milkshake through them. I got one after I got giardia. That sucks worse.

 

[RJTravel]

H&Hhunter,
Bleach is ineffective in Colo, but not exclusive to Colo. It is also dangerous to rely on "4 drops of chlorine, and ten minutes, …is purified". That extremely irresponsible statement applies to CO, CA, WA, etc, etc, etc - any anywhere else hordes of people contaminate the backcountry. Secondly, bleach disinfects but does not purify water - it does not kill crypto nor giardia. There may be some readers who assume it is true b/c they read it on the B/B, and easily get themselves in serious trouble. You really don't want to contract giardia while deep in the mountains. To make water potable one can boil, filter, or use tablets designed to kill giardia/crypto, however this takes several hours. If you establish a base camp you can use the UV mode, however it takes all day. For me the bottle or straw filter is quickest and easiest. To each his own.

 

[H&Hhunter]

RJTravel.

Chlorine bleach does kill crypto and Giardia. It is not as effective as some other methods however.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/emergency/safe_water/personal.html

 

[jrdolall]

If you can set up a base then it is always better to boil your water. Bleach is one of the most useful things you can have with you (especially in tablet form) because it is lightweight. If you don't have fire or disinfectant then the sun will do the job, though slowly.
Bleach is still the MAIN means of disinfecting the processed vegetables that we eat, though peracetic acid is becoming more common. Bleach is constantly trying to revert to a gas while peracetic acid remains more stable. The acid also costs about $50 a gallon (not that that would influence anyone in the food business).

 

[OYE]

To make water potable one can boil, filter, or use tablets designed to kill giardia/crypto, however this takes several hours

.

Some of us are familiar with a large portion of the Idaho backcountry and a fair amount of the Montana backcountry. We have often camped for two weeks at times where we had to filter or boil all the drinking water ( and this wasn't a place that ever gets hordes of people). We find that the pump filters (ours is a an old PUR I think) are fast and work really well ( we're still on the original filter). We could filter a couple gallons in just a very few minutes. They are light to carry in a back pack. You can boil water fairly quickly, it really doesn't take hours. The pills work well also.

Now it's still pretty safe to drink out of sprngs (not hot springs) even in Colorado and California and even back east for that matter. Small creeks most places in Idaho. However the larger streams, even in northern Idaho, that have beaver may not be. And the larger rivers forget about it. We did get giardia once in the backcountry about twenty years ago, and no it wasn't funny, but we didn't die either. And we needed no assistance getting out and back home and we still got the meat packed out also. Lingered for about a month with the back door trots. The cramps only lasted a few days. And no we didn't even go to the doctor. And yes we're pretty sure it was giardia.

The hordes have made it here too in a lot of places at certain times of the year. It's not a Colorado, California, Washington etc... thing any more.

Bleach is still the MAIN means of disinfecting the processed vegetables that we eat, though peracetic acid is becoming more common.

Probably for store bought vegetables. We haven't started using it aound here yet. We don't get meat inspected either. OYE

 

[H&Hhunter]

I use a pump style filter as my primary means of water purification in the back country of Colorado. As mentioned drinking from the source of a sand or rock filtered spring is generally safe. I've also filled water bottles from water dripping out of rock seams above tree line when there was no other choice.

As a back up I carry a small dropper bottle full of bleach. I apply the appropriate amount and wait 30 minutes to drink bleach treated water. After reading the CDC recommendation I think I'll switch the iodine and chlorine tablets however. Thank you to RJTravel for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

[Inebriated]

My pack is a cheapie Walmart pack that was a gift. It's been working for 2 years now, though, and I haven't had a reason to upgrade yet... Anyway, just going off memory, so I might miss something, but this is it and I bring it with me whenever I hunt public land, and is also almost identical to what stays in the Jeep 24/7. If I hunt big private land, I learn it before a hunt and usually leave the pack behind for the actual hunt, and obviously I know my own private land and surrounding forest, so I forgo the pack for that too. But for anything unknown or unfamiliar, the pack comes along.

Inside I have:
- Surefire G2X Pro (and spare batteries)
- Energizer Headlamp (2 of them, and spare batteries)
- Quality Magnesium/Ferro Rod
- Vaseline-soaked cotton balls, wrapped in foil (6 or 7)
- BIC Lighters (2, always more convenient than any other fire starting option)
- Handwarmers (3 pairs, what can I say... I'm spoiled)
- Cheapie Remington hunting knife, should I forget my nicer ones
- Garmin eTrex 20 and spare batteries (more for mapping at home afterwards, rather than getting out)
- Write in the Rain pad and pen (for mapping during scouting trips)
- Metal water bottle full of water (don't remember if it's steel or aluminum, regardless, I like it better than plastic for boiling purposes)
- Extra few rounds of ammo
- Datrex brick (most compact way to pack calories that I've found... don't taste half bad either, and last for 5 years)
- 100ft of Paracord
- Rain poncho
- Suunto compass
- AMK SOL Escape Bivvy
- Extra pair of socks, briefs, hat, gloves, and sunglasses
- Some type of Leatherman multitool
- Small first aid kit (with chapstick)
- Tarp


Like I said, may be missing stuff, but that's the gist of it. Simple, light enough to be easy to hike with for a few miles, but comprehensive enough to keep me going. I'll have to weigh everything one of these days.

 

[RJTravel]

H&Hhunter:
I did read the site and am unimpressed. I can direct you to equally credible sites which state the exact opposite. It reminds me that most internet info is about as reliable as were the Indians at Shiloh. In any event it remains true that a few drops of bleach and waiting 10 minutes (or 30 minutes) is not going to deal with giardia. You can use Potable Agua and wait several hours, or omit it entirely and expose to UV and wait the same several hours. Still, your bleach mode is going to fail miserably.

OYE:
You are right in that n/w Mt and N ID have changed. I lived there for many years and spent many a week in the mountains. I was next to a wilderness area and could walk out my back door to take deer or elk. Two years ago we drove through N ID on the way to trek Alaska Tongass, and I didn't even recognize the once quaint Cd'Alene. It is now a metro area with inadequate highways - much more congested than Denver. I've backpacked all over the area back before the USGS even mapped it (IIRC not until mid-60s). No maps - no compass - no guidance, and no people. You could spend an entire summer and never see even one person. Those days are gone. Pity.

btw we drank freely from any water source (beaver dams excluded) all over from ID throughout BC - I was young and didn't even know what filtering was. Never been sick.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I did read the site and am unimpressed. I can direct you to equally credible sites which state the exact opposite.

RJTravel,

Please do direct us to some sites that say chlorine bleach will not kill giardia. You are unimpressed with the official USGov CDC site recommendations on water purification? I'd really like to see your source.

 

[RJTravel]

H&H,
I am unimpressed with your understanding that the USGov site states that bleach will kill giardia. Go back and read it again. You misunderstand - it does not give that incorrect info. In respect to the multitude of sites that may be easier to understand - just Google it and you will find tons of info. Believe whatever you want.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I just read it again. RJ sorry you are unimpressed. But the site clearly states what I said above.

 

[H&Hhunter]

. These disinfectants can kill most harmful or disease-causing *viruses and bacteria but are not as effective in controlling more resistant organisms such as the parasites*Cryptosporidium*and*Giardia.

Here it is verbatim from the site.

 

[Bobson]

Mum's the word?

Is it just me or does that blatantly say the aforementioned disinfectants (bleach, presumably) are not effective at controlling giardia?

 

[RJTravel]

For me the bottle filter is best. Simple, safe, quick, and inexpensive. I have used one extensively without a change of elements for at least 2 years. Downside is that it is intended for one person use, but that is perfect for my style since I usually trek solo on the spur of the moment.

 

[H&Hhunter]

These disinfectants can kill most harmful or disease-causing *viruses and bacteria but are not as effective in controlling more resistant organisms such as the parasites*Cryptosporidium*and*Giardia.

The devil is in the details folks..Not AS effective as I mentioned initially but bleach does most definitely kill giardia and cryptosproidium.

And BTW RJ I do not appreciate your tone. All that I am asking for is a bit of information and your source on that information. There is absolutely no reason to make this personal.

 

[Art Eatman]

After reading several discussions (CDC et al) about giardia, this seems to be the clearest and least complicated:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=34217

"6) Recommended Usage.b
a) Filter water with a cloth to remove organics.
b) Apply bleach 2-4 drops per qt.
c) Let stand for 20 minutes (30 if cold)"

Might not be the absolute best, but effective. Out in the boonies, odds are that boiling would be the first choice, if possible.

 

[buck460XVR]

I've always been told the ''21'' system. Two drops of bleach to one quart of water and wait thirty minutes. Twice as much bleach and time for cloudy water. Clorox Bleach sponsors pure water systems all around the world where folks only have dangerous water to drink. The systems consist of a dispenser for liquid bleach...... period.


You can drink your own urine if you are severely dehydrated. That probably ain't gonna happen if you only lost overnight.

 

[H&Hhunter]

As mentioned above given my choices in order I'll filter and treat water. Filter only, treat only or if able boil. I got sick for the first time in a long time in the back country of Colorado this year on an early season solo pack in trip from drinking filtered only water. However having extensive travel experience in the third world to include Africa, Central America, South America, Asia and Africa I go one further than simply treating my water. I carry a script for Lomotil and Cyproheptadine. That way if you do happen to catch the crud you can self treat. It sure saved me some misery this year.

It saved me once in Zimbabwe too. I don't know if I would have died but I sure as heck felt like I would. Not sure where I picked up the bug that time as we were only drinking bottled water.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

b/t/w - you really think "worms" are needed to catch fish in remote areas? In truth you can use anything or even a bare hook. Try a remote trip and you will see.

I have tried several "remote" trips, and on more than one continent. My response was to the idea that "bait" can always be found... when people use the word "bait" I think worms and or insects... I believe that's what most folks mean. In the colder months, as this thread is about hunting season... not so easy to find insects. Now farther South, sure, probably not an issue.

If you can merely catch a fish with your hands, or you find an old animal kill from some four footed predator, you can use bits of either to bait a hook. Snare a rabbit or squirrel and use the liver or guts. You can also make lures... I saw a fellow catch several fish with nothing more than a red glass bead on the line just above the hook.

Just because folks have reported using X to attract a fish and it worked is not the same as having a high probability that it will work.... so while yes some may have found fish catchable with nothing but a hook, I'd rather increase the odds and decrease the energy needed... and use a bait.


LD

 

[627PCFan]

"Anti-government Lighter"

lol must have

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That's a standard Bic with the government mandated guard ripped out.

 

[Bobson]

Saw an interesting product today. It's a plastic water bottle (one liter) by Sawyer, and has some sort of internal filter. It's advertised as 99.99999% effective against certain bacteria, and 99.999% effective against giardia and some other specific parasite. It's also advertised as lasting for a million gallons worth of use. Costs $34 at Cabela's.

Anyone familiar with the product?

http://sawyer.com/products/sawyer-personal-water-bottle-filter/

ETA:

They also make an inline valve type for use with a Camelbak that is very appealing to me.