ZeroJunk
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Took me a while to get used to hunting the Rockys. No suitable leaves around.
Solo hunting survival kit- what's in your bag?
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Took me a while to get used to hunting the Rockys. No suitable leaves around.
SoonerMedic
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If you don't mind, I could help with lightening your load a bit. And these are just me being a medical professional as well as an occasional outdoorsman.
I would 86 the burn gel, quick clot and finger splint. I'm actually leaning toward saying you could lose several ounces by dropping the sam splint as the likelihood of you actually using it or it being effective in an outdoor setting is slim. If you're going to have a fracture, you'll want to use board splints instead as they are more sturdy.
Drop all that stuff and put some more roller gauze and maybe a roll of coban in your bag. You can splint with sticks and whatever else you can find. Even if you need to add some material under a deformed limb, you can always substitute with stuff you already have (some of the extra clothing that you mentioned you take with you.)
Quick clot is bad stuff to use. It does work, yes, but ultimately it can lead to other issues as it has to be removed later on if applied. Can cause other complications down the road. And like I said before, you're already carrying things that you can use in lieu of this. Direct pressure and gauze is always the first method of stopping a life threatening bleed. If you're really worried about an injury that will cause you to go into hypovolemic shock, look at a C.A.T. tourniquet as that will be most effective (and learn how to use them properly as well!).
I noticed you carry several different methods of starting a fire. Why not just remove a few of them and become very proficient at one and carry another as a backup? Lets say get good at starting one with a magnesium block and vacuum seal a cheap lighter as a last resort?
Drop the canteen and water purification tabs and replace them with a small lifestraw. If you need more than 2L of water, your cup can serve to boil more if need be and use the lifestraw as a last resort in the event that you're unable to start a fire for whatever reason?
Hand sanitizer? Common now, you're in the wilderness! Did you buy this at bath and bodyworks?
lol sorry, I had to!You can also lose some weight by taking away some of the food. I know that sounds crazy, but honestly you only need food for maintaining your body mass. As long as you have water, you'll be good for about a month....unless you're skin and bones going in, then you're going to be looking at a few days lol.
The last thing that I can see you saving some weight would be in your knives. It sounds like you're carrying around a few lbs in knives alone? That's a lot of steel that you're likely not going to use. And they sound like they're all specialized for one thing. I would look into getting a nice durable knife that will do everything you want it to do. Survive! knives are some of the best that I've seen and will skin anything you touch it to, baton through hardwood, and shave your face after everything is done. You also would not likely need your knife sharpener with it.
I imagine I probably just saved you about 15lbs of weight, though this is all just my own personal opinion on the matter. Also, what various meds do you carry into the woods with you? I mean I could see Benadryl and some naproxen sodium (Aleve) or Ibuprofen, but beyond that some meds might actually be a downfall to take while you're needing to conserve strength and be mentally focused.
Anyhow, I hope I didn't offend you, just maybe trying to give you some food for thought is all.
Armored farmer
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I really do have an emergency bag that I take along if I am going to be in unfamiliar territory.
2 bic lighters
Magnesium fire starter
Tinder
Hand sanitizer
Acetaminophen and ibuprofen
Gauze and tape
Several decent sized zip ties
Good compass
Whistle
Small led flashlight
Spare AA batteries
The bare essentials.
2 bic lightersMagnesium fire starter
Tinder
Hand sanitizer
Acetaminophen and ibuprofen
Gauze and tape
Several decent sized zip ties
Good compass
Whistle
Small led flashlight
Spare AA batteries
The bare essentials.
OP
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DB Cooper carries more hunting than I did on some missions in Afg!
Armored farmer
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Hand sanitizer? Common now, you're in the wilderness! Did you buy this at bath and bodyworks?
With all due respect, the hand sanitizer is really good for washing off caked on blood from your hands and knives after field dressing. Besides, it is good fuel for starting a fire because of the alcohol.
I know that we're supposed to wear rubber gloves when field dressing, but I don't. I always have Knicks and scrapes on my hands from work. I use the sanitizer.
Just my .02.
Loyalist Dave
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Because I'm a flintlock hunter, and a bit nuts, I carry some old stuff. I carry an 8 ounce tomahawk with a "poll" for hammering (makes wood gathering and shelter making much easier than a knife alone), a belt knife, plus a tiny skinning/patch knife. A small stone to keep all sharp. A 7x7 oil cloth made of linen because it's lighter than canvas, that is wrapped around a small but thick wool blanket that is called a "match coat" and can be worn as a garment over my other layers of linen and wool. Kept inside a cinched sack, and rolled inside the oil cloth and match coat is a very small pot for boiling water and a tin cup, with a bag of jerky, a bag of raisins (sugar and potassium = energy and keeps away cramps), and a pound or so of ground, parched corn, and some tea. Fire starting = flint & steel, and a burning lens (small magnifying lens), plus a tiny candle and some slivers of fat wood. Horn whistle, sewing kit, and a first aid kit in a tin container. A British style canteen is worn over my shoulder.
Modern "hacks" because I'm not totally nuts..., small bic lighter plus a tiny bottle of hand sanitizer (as was pointed out, flammable), small hi intensity LED flashlight, floral wire (works for shelter frames, and for snares), lifestraw, Swiss army knife with saw, cell phone.
I've used all of my stuff, and I know what it can do, and what it can't, and I think that's the key. How many have used their ferro rod or magnesium block to make a fire? How many times and how often in bad weather? Have you ever made a debris shelter and spent the night in it in rainy, or cold, or wet AND cold weather? What's your age? You may find as I did that as you get older, you don't tolerate bad weather in the wilds as well as you did when you were 20. Practice these skills now, under some controlled conditions, and get pretty proficient in them BEFORE you need them to save your life, eh?
LD
Modern "hacks" because I'm not totally nuts..., small bic lighter plus a tiny bottle of hand sanitizer (as was pointed out, flammable), small hi intensity LED flashlight, floral wire (works for shelter frames, and for snares), lifestraw, Swiss army knife with saw, cell phone.
I've used all of my stuff, and I know what it can do, and what it can't, and I think that's the key. How many have used their ferro rod or magnesium block to make a fire? How many times and how often in bad weather? Have you ever made a debris shelter and spent the night in it in rainy, or cold, or wet AND cold weather?
What's your age? You may find as I did that as you get older, you don't tolerate bad weather in the wilds as well as you did when you were 20. Practice these skills now, under some controlled conditions, and get pretty proficient in them BEFORE you need them to save your life, eh? LD
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That can make for a sticky situation.
olkowsr
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I don't carry much because I hunt my yard, but here goes:
- main firearm (shotgun, rifle, etc)
- cellphone
- 410/45 judge (my ccw)
- x2 410 flares
- spare rifle/ shotgun shells (depends on what hunting is going on)
- bottle of water and usually some snickedity snacks..
I wear a hunter orange hoodie or hunter orange t shirt and cap too with jeans.
That's it.
- main firearm (shotgun, rifle, etc)
- cellphone
- 410/45 judge (my ccw)
- x2 410 flares
- spare rifle/ shotgun shells (depends on what hunting is going on)
- bottle of water and usually some snickedity snacks..
I wear a hunter orange hoodie or hunter orange t shirt and cap too with jeans.
That's it.
SoonerMedic
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Oh no, I'm really just joshing about that. The alcohol in it can really save you from infection if you were lost in the wilderness for months and months.
I'm also not big on wearing gloves when cleaning game, although yesterday was an exception. I was cleaning off the meat and hide from the 11pt I shot last November. I was unsure how kind the freezer has been to him so I opted for some nitrile gloves.
D.B. Cooper
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That was a very good analysis, and you've hit several areas I've contemplated myself, with the exception of removing some of the first aid gear.
Everything in the FAK you mentioned deleting, except for the quick clot, I've already had a need for. (I added the sam splint after needing one and not having one.) Also, the "various meds" are just as you surmised: Aleve, Advil, Benadryl, Immodium, etc.
I think you're spot on with the knives & tools. The knives are specialized for hunting rather than survival. I could still drop at least one. The axe is the absolute beast in that category. I've been leaving it behind more often than not lately. I tried a small, Estwing Sportsman axe, which was light but was so light it doesn't do a very good job. I should replace it with a lightweight saw for removing antlers.
I know you joke about the hand sanitizer, but that comes out of my Army training that taught field hygiene is important to not getting sick in the field.
I think my heaviest category is water, and I hunt in an area that has a lot of streams and lakes (sometimes I hunt from a canoe), so dumping some water is on the horizon-either my 2L bladder or my 1 qt GI canteen.
SoonerMedic
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Well, the reason I suggest dropping the SAM splint is because it is not a very sturdy splint. I use them on occasion when we get calls for people that have deformed fractures of smaller limbs (typically ankles and arms/wrists). If you fracture your femur, that SAM splint will become virtually useless. You'll then have to fashion a splint using split wood and I'm thinking that 15' of paracord will not be enough to secure those splints enough for them to be effective.
I think if you YouTube the Survive! Knives I mentioned earlier, you'll probably drop all the other knives and the axe all together as it is sufficient for literally everything you want in a sharp tool. I mean finding a nice short hardwood log about half the diameter of a baseball bat will allow you to cut down significant sized trees with little more effort than using the axe.
I would tend to agree with you as far as the canteen, the bladder isn't necessarily a bad option. Of course you could always drop it and use a lifestraw or carry a nice size aluminum or stainless cup to boil small amounts of water at a time. Large particulate filters are easy to manage as you could use your sock or a t-**** and dry it out as you boil the water.
Again, these are just my own personal views on these things and I'm just one person lol. I honestly take toilet paper, fill my bladder with about 1L of water, have a can of snuff, and a snack. I'm also not going out into super remote areas as I don't have that blessing here in S Oklahoma.
D.B. Cooper
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I'm not a fan of the life straw (for no real reason). I do have a Katahdyn Hiker water filter, but that weighs a whole pound. The chem tabs seem, to me, to be the lightest weight option. (Although, I think the tabs require the use of a canteen or nalgene bottle. Not sure how well they would work in a bladder.)
Funny you should mention the use of a t-shirt as a water filter. Many of our rivers up here are fed by glacier melt off, which means lots of fine particle silt suspended in the water. It won't settle out, and it goes through t-shirt cotton. It clogs pump type filters. I should probably carry some alum (pickling salt) because it acts as a coagulant binding the fine particles together to the point that they are heavy enough to settle out. Then you pump water off the top of your nalgene with your filter, or pour off the top and then treat with the tabs.
I think the reason I carry so much water is I once got caught on the A.T. with no water, darkness coming on, and a mountain between me and the next water source. ALL of the food was freeze dried as well, which requires copious amounts of water, so we couldn't eat anything either. Despite that, I'm leaning toward going back to all freeze dried food due to the weight savings.
You mentioned batoning to split firewood. Thought of adding a larger knife for that purpose, but figured that would be as heavy as a small axe.
I could drop 2 knives and go with one of those havalon knives with the replaceable blades and just carry one blade for each type of work (bone saw gut hook, filet, etc.)
Loyalist Dave
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EXACTLY!
Can somebody explain where "batoning" comes from? Is it some cockamamie 20th century idea that you can find one tool for all jobs? It may be from the air crews and special forces of the Viet Nam War, and especially the air crews if they had to bail out, had limited space on them for survival gear so a very strong knife that could do more than cut was perhaps the seed for the "batoning" idea??? I notice a lot of knife articles use batoning as some sort of "test" for the new knife they are reviewing. I for one have never found a mallet or short branch large enough to be used to baton the hunting knife, by chance while I was walking in the woods. I always see folks using something they made, not found, like a saw-cut and split piece of firewood, so how do you split the firewood to use it to baton when you need a baton to split the firewood?
All sorts of lovely cutting, hacking, stabbing, pounding, and hammering tools existed centuries before the American Colonies. It was quite possible for cutlers in the colonies or in England, to make a hefty knife capable of being "batoned" back in the days of the long hunters, YET those guys back then opted for a light hatched aka the tomahawk, and a moderate sized butcher knife..., and a tool to keep them both sharp. They were literally going into unexplored wilderness away from the edge of civilization, so maybe they knew what they were doing?
LD
D.B. Cooper
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I deleted this.
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D.B. Cooper
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SoonerMedic, I've been thinking about your post the last day or so, and I wanted to get some further input from you on it.
In regards to using or not using quickclot, all of my first aid training (which consists of BSA Merit Badge and Army Basic Training ca 1994) has taught me that one you apply bandage (e.g. roll gauze and direct pressure to severe bleeding) you don't or can't take the bandages off-you just keep adding more gauze and more pressure. If that remains the current protocol, then doesn't that mean I have to make the decision on quickclot at the beginning; if gauze and pressure are insufficient, I cannot go back and pour on the quickclot. Am I correct in this?
In regards to C.A.T. tourniquet, these didn't exist when I was in the Army. We were taught to use gauze, 550 cord, whatever, and anything we could find to twist it tight. These modern IFAK kits didn't exist then. However, I have a sealed (expired 2010) IFAK and the inventory list says there is 1 CAT tourniquet in there. Is that this thing: http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=01294 ??? Also, the training I got on tourniquets was that they were an absolute last resort. By your earlier statements,shouldI assume that this is no longer true?
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OP
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DB- Massive bleeding has been determined to be the most frequent cause of death in COMBAT in recent years (in cases where the victim initially survived the event). Every Soldier carries at least 1 tourniquet and is trained in the use- even to self-employ if possible. What was true during your time has been dis-proven. In short, everything has changed, and Soldiers are much more better trained in 1st aid than in previous years. If you intend to carry/use these items, I strongly suggest you get training on them by someone who is certified in the use of them. All that said, being that this is the hunting thread, unless you are in some extreme terrain/conditions or hunting dangerous game like bear with a spear or knife hunting Russian boar, I think it is very unlikely you will need things like quick-clot or CAT TQ's.
SoonerMedic
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The thing about heavy bleeding is this. If you think you need quick clot, you'll more than likely use the TQ. If it's so severe that your first reaction is "oh my god I need to put a tourniquet on this now!" Then you need to use the TQ. It's just really all situational. Is it arterial or venous blood? You'll need to know what the two look like and how to determine which is which. Arterial blood is bright red and is very forceful when it's coming out of the body 9 times out of 10. There is no mistaking it. We will typically hold pressure on an arterial bleed with bandaging (abdominal pads or lots of gauze/packing) or wrap it as tight as we can with coban. And that will suffice until we get to the ER. The Dr will want to see the bleed in action before he makes his decision on what to do, so whatever you've done will come off in the ER.
I agree, you should go enroll in an EMR class. It'll give you the bare minimum basics to keep somebody alive. Maybe even yourself. And it's cheap!
Alaskan Ironworker
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I like to keep a roll of pink flagging tape, useful to find your way back to a kill, home, or wherever.
Captcurt
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Yep. Aspens and Spruce just don't get the job done.
Choctaw
Member
As a law enforcement officer my agency issues tourniquets that we all carry in our vests. I also have one that lives in my hunting gear. People, a tourniquet will keep you alive. You may want to go old school with a belt and a stick. If so, good luck to you. Other than that I hunt in Texas and really don't need to carry survival items other than a cell phone.
George P
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Moleskin, emergency first aid, signal mirror, waterproof matches and fire starter - not just the magnesium stick but also the vaseline/cotton balls stuff in a film can; if possibility of overinght, some form of rain protection, hand held chainsaw; and of course food/water/compass/gps stuff everyone else has mentioned.
D.B. Cooper
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Interesting that this thread would come back to life. I'm right now planning a section hike of the Appalachian Trail in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. (I haven't been on the A.T. since 2004.) So I'm looking at all if the newer ultralight gear, and that as me completely reassessing the contents of my hunt pack.
When I see thru-hikers' packs weighing in at 10-15 lbs and my DAY pack is 23 lbs...I need to make some changes.
When I see thru-hikers' packs weighing in at 10-15 lbs and my DAY pack is 23 lbs...I need to make some changes.
George P
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I just got the Spring Cabela's specialty catalog - besides a big section on shooting gear, it also has a LOT of the ultralight gear from hammocks, stoves, etc - you might want to check that out
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Reminds me of my days in the mil- 100 pounds of lightweight gear!
Choctaw
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Using the tourniquet only as a last resort is no longer true. If you are bleeding out you must stop the flow of blood and do so quickly.
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