hunting rifle

[MCgunner]

Savage and buy a $200 Weaver 2x10 for it and live happy. Well, I don't know, you're gonna probably want one of those 16 power jobs Weaver sells and it's something under 400 I think, if you're going to do the thousand yard thing.

Calibers for high BC, I'd look into 6.5mm or 7mm. Those calibers are superior to the 30 cal selection for BC and sectional density (important in hunting). I'd think 7mm Rem Mag or maybe 7mm STW. Of course, I reload. The STW is a flat shootin' round with a heavy 7mm match bullet.

 

[skinewmexico]

A 338 Winmag will be real fun to shoot for a while at 1000 yards. The 6.5 calibers dominate 1000 yard shooting now. Get a modern rifle, chambered in 6.5X55. You can get high BC bullets, and load them hot enough to keep them supersonic at 1000 yards. Great hunting round too. The scope thing is tough to work around. Cross hairs on the average hunting scope will more than cover most 1000 yard targets, leaving you guessing.

 

[quicktime]

I am new to hunting, and need a solid, but relatively inexpensive rifle for Elk and Deer. I would also really like to use this for 1000 yard target practice as well

I hate to break the news to you and everyone on the thread but these are two very different rifles. It is like going in to a truck dealer and saying yeah I want something that I can drive every day and get's good gas mileage, and I have a 40' boat and 10 kids to haul to the lake every weekend. You are not giong to be able to find one vehicle that will feasibly meet your goals.

Shooting at a thousand yards with a scoped rifle falls under NRA F-class rules. If you want to stand a reasonable chance of doing well in these matches you need at the bare minimum a reworked factory gun and preferably a purpose built custom actioned rifle. Bare minimum for a reliable rifle will be around 2000 and that is assuming you find some used parts and have a good relationship with a competent gunsmith.

I know I will be catching some heat from guys that are out there shooting box stock rifles with budget optics and saying they shoot all X's. But the guys that are out there in the top 5 every match have purpose built rifles with quality optics. I am assembling the parts for an F-class gun right now so I will give you a run down on price's to give you an idea. This is a list for a top shelf unit and can be done for less but it will give you an idea.

1. Action (Nesika or Surgeon) 1500
I have to use Nesika because I am a Lefty.
2. Trigger 600
Personal choice of a Grunig&Elmiger there are a lot cheaper
3. Barrel 350
Personal choice Mark Chanlynn but price is pretty consistent
4. Stock 600 (Includes Adjustable butt plate and cheekpiece)
Personal choice Ian Robertson
5. Scope 1600
Personal choice Nightforce
6. Gunsmithing 2000 (Quality guy with a lot of match and metal winning guns)
Includes: thread and chamber barrel, pillar bed, inlet stock and bottom metal,fit weird trigger, carbon fiber line barrel channel (cool factor).
7. Paint 500
(All pimp target guns have wicked paint jobs)

Grand Total (now that I have added it up it is depressing) 7150.00

That is the grand total for a top notch F-class gun. Oh by the way the caliber will be a 6.5 or 7mm. Jury is still out.

Remember all you have to do is punch a hole in paper not humanely harvest an animal and you have to do it for 100-150 shots over the weekend. That is why you very rarely see the big monster magnums on the firing line. This is just a list for F-class target shooting. If you just want to go out and shoot at metallic ringers at 1000 yards to see if you can make some noise then by all means take your 30-06 or your 300 mag out and have a great time. There is nothing better than trigger time and reading the wind to help you in the woods when you are hunting in my opinion. And also do not be discouraged by my rifle bill. I think you could get set up for around 2000 and still do reasonably well (The 2000 includes spotting scope and mat and scope stand) But if you are new to hunting and rifles all together do not start out by shooting 1000 yards. Go out and shoot at your local range. If they have some 300-600 yard shoots go to those the first time leave your rifle at home and just go out and talk to the people at the range and get a feel for it. There is a wealth of information out there so soak it up enjoy yourself and most of all just get as much trigger time as you can at whatever range you have available.

 

[Bartkowski]

$500 for paint, I spend that on a rifle, although not for target shooting a good solid hunting rifle. I sure wish my pockets were as deep as yours.

 

[quicktime]

There are some benefits to a six figure salary and no children. Ridiculous amounts of money in the gun safe is one of them. Now I just wish my gunsmith was out of the desert to build it.

 

[Legionnaire]

quicktime, I'm sure you're "on the money" regarding a competition rig. But the OP said he was interested in a hunting rifle with which he could do some 1,000 target practice. You can do that without the expense of a custom rig. I'm with you on something other than a magnum (although I'm working on a .300 mag for that purpose). My recommendation would be a good solid bolt action in .308. With heavy (175 grain) match ammo, one should be able to do the occasional 1000 yard target shoot, but still have a rifle that's not overkill for hunting. I'm keying off the fact that the OP said he primarily wanted a hunting rifle.

That said, a rifle capable of regularly hitting targets at 1,000 yards isn't likely going to be one you'd want to schlep through the deer woods. For the latter, I prefer a lightweight, carbine-length bolt action. Although it's a .308, it's not MOA accurate, more typically shooting 1.5-2.0" groups with factory deer loads. But that's plenty accurate for deer. A 1000 yard gun, in contrast, really needs to be consistently sub-MOA.

 

[GunTech]

quicktime

The poster says he is new to hunting (and probably long range shooting too) so spending a huge amount of moeny would be a toptal waste. He needs to burn up several barrels before even thinking about spending a lot of money on a rifle for F Class. A beginner should never be advised to buy the ultimate right off the bat. For one thing, he woun't be able to utililize the capability, so it's a waste of money. Also, we each have our own preferences, typically based on experience. What works for you or me may not work for him.

It's been my experience that a lot of rifles seen at high end competitions cross over from utility to showing who has the biggest wallet. Good optics and a consisten subMOA rifle will go a long way towards winning. I shoot tactical, rather than F class (but have done latter) and the F class rifle is so specialized that it is pretty much a single use gun. I have and do compete with my tactical rifle, and hunt too. It serves both purposes well.

 

[MCgunner]

quicktime, I'm sure you're "on the money" regarding a competition rig. But the OP said he was interested in a hunting rifle with which he could do some 1,000 target practice.

Exactly. Hey, on the shotgun forum, there are tons of guys that shoot skeet and trap with an 870. Are they serious trap shooters? Nah, I don't think so. But, hey, I bet they have fun!

The Savage is the cheapest platform I know of that can consistently offer 1 moa or better accuracy and that's why I mentioned it. With proper scope, it can do both jobs, hunting and INFORMAL 1000 yard shooting. Is it perfect for both? Nah, but hey, it will be an accurate, fun rifle that can hunt with the best of 'em. If I got all serious about 1000 yard shooting, yeah, I'd have to raid one of my IRAs. For hunting, I love my little Remington M7, compact, light, powerful (.308) enough, and very accurate (1MOA). But, I can hunt stands like I do mostly anymore with my Hakim battle rifle if I had to, friggin' weighs about what one of those 16" guns on the Missouri did. LOL!

 

[Never No More]

Chezball,

Check you area for a Remington 700p in 308. Go on-line to SWAFA and buy a 10x Super Sniper scope, and TPS rings from Brownells.

You will be under $1000 easy, and have more rifle than store bought ammo can handle.

The reason for 308 over 30-06 is simple, you can get more goodies for a 308.

The gun world considers the 30-06 round oboslete, so not as much is made for those rifles.

BTW I own two 30-06 rifles, on gas, one bolt, and would owning nothing else

But then Ive been reloading for over 40 years and built both rifles from the chamber up.

 

[CajunTim]

Just food for thought.

Here is a little reading material http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237232#Post237232

Here is a good starter package http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm

You have to ask yourself what is the closest range you will be hunting so you know what your field of view will be when deciding on a scope. Also where is your priority going to be hunting or paper punching? Are you going to be carrying this rig for miles up steep hills? My tacticool/hunting rig weighs 13.4lbs unloaded I walk a 1/4 mile to my deer stand not a big deal for me. For punching paper a heavy barrel is preferable.

This is what I have:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/78360
http://www.bigrivertactical.com/catalog/item/4446793/4446707.htm
I went overboard for with rings and bases but a good set could be had for 140ish you would need a 20moa with this scope.
I also added a bipod and swapped the stock, I have about $2000 (my wife has no clue)in my rig as I bought then sold stuff at a lost to upgrade stuff like my scope. Buy once, cry once and be done with it.

Here is a good hunting rig, they have raised the price by almost $40 in the past few weeks it does come in other calibers.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_62/products_id/14607

www.budsgunshop.com I find has usually the best prices on rifles.

I'm a .308 junky.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

Chezball, I can understand the desire to get a do-all rifle and scope combo for under $500 that will take deer/elk AND shoot sub MOA at 1,000 yards, but in all honesty, unless you are buying used and getting a VERY good deal, I don't think that this is practically possible. And if your rifle won't shoot sub MOA, there isn't much point in trying to hit something at 1,000 yards.

However, if you are willing to invest between $1,000 and $1,500, I think you can get something that will fit the bill very nicely in either .308 or .30-06, and have a very nice rifle indeed.

In my own case, I bought:
• Remington 700 VSF .308 - $831.00 (MSRP $1,185.00 for the left handed version, $1,159.00 for right handed; mine is LH)
• Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50mm scope w/ B&C reticle - $530.00 (MSRP $1,005.00)
• Leupold bases, rings, and flip up end caps - approximately $125.00 (maybe less, I don't remember for sure).

The point is, I got almost $2,200 worth of rifle and scope for less than $1,400 (not counting bases, rings, and end caps), and after having done a little post purchase research, it seems that I didn't get any kind of unusual pricing. NOBODY sells a VX-III scope at full retail, and that seems to hold true for the rifle itself, so it's not like I scored some special kind of deal.

My son bought a Savage 10FP-HS Precision for $800, which retails for $864, and a Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x40mm for about $400. So again, for a price falling between $1,000 and $1,500, you've got an accurate rifle scope combo that can be used for both kinds of shooting you're interested in.

With firearms, it goes the same as for most things... ...you tend to get what you paid for. If you're willing to spend just a little more than your initial estimate, you'll have something that not only will shoot the tits off a mother flea at 100 yards, you'll also have a truly fine piece of equipment that will give you satisfaction to own and look at. As others have pointed out here, you CAN get an accurate rifle scope combo for $1,000 or less, but what will your long term ownership experience be like?

Like most people, I don't have a 1,000 yard range immediately nearby to go and test myself, the nearest one being Tac Pro Shooting Center about 80 or 90 miles from where I live, so I don't truly know what my rifle will do at that distance, or for that matter, what these aging eyes of mine will do. But at 100 yards, if I'm on my game, I get 3/8" - 1/2" groups out of it with regular consistency, and the .308 round is adequate to most North American game, including elk, if you place your shot well and use the right bullets.

Keep in mind that, if you want to do 1,000 yard shooting, you're going to have to add accessories like a 20 MOA tapered scope base to help your scope reach out that far. However, with a rig like the two I've described above, you can expect to shoot reliably out to 600 yards, which is a lot further than you would think it is, and beyond which it would be ethical to shoot at an animal anyway. And, you can shoot out to 1,000 yards if you pony up for some extra equipment, and a whole LOT of range time. And, as Guntech pointed out with his excellent picture at the bottom of page one of this thread of what 1,000 yards actually looks like, it's intimidating as hell, and a very long distance indeed.

I guess I'm a long winded old poot.

 

[GunTech]

CajunTim,

Thanks for the info on the Howa package. Look like a decent rifle and scope for under $1000. It is pretty hard to get an decent righ for LR shooting for under 1K. One thing you will find if you do any shooting at 1000 yards is that what looks like a decent scope in the store turns out to be crap on the range.

Most scopes are meant for 3-400 yards max, abnd for that even a relatively cheap scope will work. But in my experience, once you go to 100 yards and further, optics become critical The Bushnell and Supersniper are adequate - barely. But once you look through a Nightforce, Schmitt and Bender or USO at 1000 yards, you'll appreciate good glass.

The good news is that you get get really first rate Schott glass optics in the USO ST-10S for under $900. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the Leupold MkIV M1 and M3 sell for $1300 and don't have the same resolution. The ST-10 is probably one of the best values out there for long range glass.

I realize that we are now over budget by about $500, but it is something to think about.

 

[quicktime]

I by no means meant to discourage your interest in 1000 yard shooting. I put together a list of MY preferences and budget for a top shelf F class gun. Yes you can buy a factory gun that is capable of 1 MOA accuracy and utilize it in 1000 yard competition. Will you win? Probably not. Will you have fun? I hope so but I have also seen a lot of people with sub par equipment get really discouraged and quit. My best advice to you is buy your hunting gun to to your local range and shoot as much as you can afford. Buy some books on target positions and shooting techniques. If you are lucky enough to know someone in target shooting sit down with them an pick their brain. Or even better go with them out to the range and have them give you some pointers. Once you get learned up on the basics start to learn how to read wind then. Save your money for an AR and shoot service rifle with it until the first barrel burns out and then rebarrel it and shoot some more. Service rifle is honestly some of the best and cheapest training to get you set up with the basic skills for target shooting as well as hunting. And nothing is better than trigger time and service rifle gives you plenty. So bottom line is buy what you can afford and get out to the range for some quality trigger time.