Hunting Rifles Vs. Military Rifles...

[Magnum88C]

How many times do I have to say this? For me it is the idea that someone would want, and especially to hunt with, a rifle that is a watered down replica of what its real cousins are.

Just to beat on this a bit more.
I hunt with an L1A1. . .a lot. It's not a "watered down replica". The L1A1 has always been a semi auto, the L2A1 and FAL were full auto. So I'm not a wannabe because my rifle is in full trim?

I hate to burst any bubbles but there's more reasons than looks as to why people hunt with black rifles. Ergonomcs for one. Wrist geometry with a pistol grip is far better for me than a more traditional semi pistol grip or straight stock. The safety on most "assault rifles" is easier to manipulate than on a "sporting" rifle (even the AK if you know what you're doing).

AK/SKS is good for hunting because they are reliable and tough, and fire enough cartridge for most hunting purposes. ARs are extremely good varmint guns, and with the advent of the 6.8/6.5 are good for medium game and the .308 versions can take anything most "sporting rifles" can take.

An M1, M1A, same thing, great for hunting.

I also like hunting with my No4 Enfields and Mosin Nagants in full military trim. I get many remarks about that "Wha don't ye git a sportin' rahful?" Because I think sporters suck and I like having a full set of furniture on a rifle. IMO it's a superior setup.

Now the idea that "Guy are going to run about willy-nilla spraying the woods with bullets and gunning down Bambi" is the same class of srgument that anti-gunners use when they say "We shouldn't allow people to carry guns. They're going to run around having duels at high noon, and the streets will run with blood."
Both are BS arguments,.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

We should ban all firearms from the hunting fields since the only real sporting arms are bows and spears. Anything else is just using some dangerous long-range weapon used for "sniping" unsuspecting animals from afar like a bunch of Carlos Hathcock-wannabes. No one needs that much range. I mean, we don't need bullets flying across the fields killing animals not being hunted or people. It's certainly not sporting beyond bow ranges.

If we ban all firearms from the hunting fields than the fudds and rambos can be happy and united in using real sporting arms.






Or we could just respect all hunters that hunt safely, humanely, and with respect for the wildlife and the fields since the appearance of their hunting arms is trivial. But that is apparently too hard since it requires respecting people who may have different tastes.

 

[woof]

Or we could all just express our opinions, accept that they will differ, and let it go at that.

 

[Ash]

Well, the trouble is you made a pretty good attack at folks for carrying something other than a traditional hunting rifle. By referring to them as Rambo, you did open those doors for comment. That was, by arms-length, a flame against those who might carry one.

Ash

 

[MCgunner]

I think we can all agree (I hope) that the second amendment has absolutely NOTHING to do with hunting and everything to do with maintenance of health, safety, and freedom. Of all the quotes I've read and filed of the founding fathers, not one that I can remember mentions hunting. Hell, the second amendment even states that it's for the maintenance of a "well regulated militia" which means non-regular citizen army. Antis say that's the national guard, but funny that the national guard did not exist until the 20th century. The militia is you and me and every free American.

On the number of gun owners vs hunters, there are those that only own guns to shoot skeet and trap, huge numbers that only own handguns for personal protection and/or carry. There are competition shooters of all kinds. No, not all of 'em hunt, but what I was saying is that of all the HUNTERS I've met, most were what you are calling "fudds" in that they were sportsmen using sporting rifles.

I have seen few black guns on deer leases I've been on. I do know guys in my gun club that are into them, though, and have plenty of friends that enjoy them. Few hunt with them. Even my best buddy who has the Cobray class three weapon hunts with his Browning rifles. He's a browning nut. He doesn't have bolt guns, though. He has a BLR in .308 and a BAR in .300 Win Mag.

If he brought his AR or AK down here to hunt, though, I would have no problem with it. I know the guy, sorta, friends since 1971 freshman year at A&M and he was best man at my wedding.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

No, not all of 'em hunt, but what I was saying is that of all the HUNTERS I've met, most were what you are calling "fudds" in that they were sportsmen using sporting rifles.

I consider someone a fudd when they don't believe that anyone should use anything not sold for hunting and because they don't own any military styled weapons they are somehow morally superior. Example: " I have some pump shotguns and a Browning BAR, but those whack jobs with AKs and ARs are crazy, nobody needs one of those unless they plan on killin'. " I have nothing against anyone who tells me that my guns "just ain't my thing" but still respects my right to own them.

 

[woof]

Ash, I defy you to cite one place where I "called" anyone Rambo. I may have used the term, since you all seem to have divided yourselves into rambos and FUDDS, but never did I say that owning or shooting an AR/AK made one a rambo. In fact, I offered a story about a close friend who is very fond of his AR and is the antithesis of rambo. I did say that my personal reaction to someone hunting with an AR/AK would be to avoid them. I explained further that my avoidance was based not on an assumption that they would be spraying the woods with bullets but that anyone hunting with what I regard as a replica rifle is on a very different trip than I am. Now you can disagree with my assumptions or my values or my conclusions all you want and you can take offense if you wish. So be it. But I find it ironic that so many of you who hoot and holler about freedom and personal liberty are so ready to condemn me for saying that the AR hunter's rights should be recognized but I myself just don't want to hang out with him. This displays a very shallow understanding of rights and liberty and freedom. What's next? "Ve haff vays of making people like ARs?"

 

[yesit'sloaded]

But I find it ironic that so many of you who hoot and holler about freedom and personal liberty are so ready to condemn me for saying that the AR hunter's rights should be recognized but I myself just don't want to hang out with him.

Thats the fun of the first amendment. You are free to share your opinion, but we are also free to tell you what we think about your opinion.

 

[woof]

I knew when I expressed my opinion that it would not be very welcome and that the majority here would reject it. I totally respect their opinion. Anyone who considers me stupid or foolish or uninformed or old-fashioned or whatever - ok with me I have broad shoulders. But what I really didn't expect was to be told that I am somehow obliged to choose company I am inclined not to choose. It's as if some of you believe that you have the "right" NOT to have others dislike your ARs and not want to hunt with you. Small step from that to having the right to dictate my political and religious views as well.

 

[SteyrAUG]

woof


Or we could all just express our opinions, accept that they will differ, and let it go at that.

Sarah Brady, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer and Hillary Clinton all have opinions on what firearms are "suitable" for hunting. I don't think I will accept theirs or let them go anytime soon.

Just because an opinion is different doesn't mean it must be respected. Some opinions are simply wrong. Michael Jackson is of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with sharing his bed with children. His opinion doesn't simply "differ" it is wrong.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I don't care how you feel, but I sure care if a bunch of people vote and I lose a right.

 

[woof]

Steyr, Please take that a step further. Explain what should be done about my wrong opinion that I don't want to hunt with someone shooting an AR. Should a law be passed? Should I be jailed? Beaten? Killed? If not respecting my opinion means you will shake your head and roll your eyes and pay no regard to me, then fine because that is pretty much my reaction to you. But you seem to be saying your disrespect of my opinion means my opinion should not and will not be tolerated. Do explain.

 

[woof]

yesitsloaded, Hell will freeze before I vote to take away any of your gun rights.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Then your a good guy in my book, you just might not be invited to go hunting with me.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Ash, I defy you to cite one place where I "called" anyone Rambo.

That said, if I meet you out in the woods and you have a military style semi auto, I'm getting away from you quickly because (sorry) I do think you're a rambo wannabe.

Hi, that's me, and that's you calling me a "rambo wannabe".

 

[azredhawk44]

Woof, that's me too.

I hunt with my M1A and a 5 round magazine. It's the most powerful rifle I have (.308) and the most accurate one I have.

How is it less ethical to hunt with than a Woodsmaster?

 

[Keith Wheeler]

Hell will freeze before I vote to take away any of your gun rights

I believe that. I honestly do. But I also believe that your inflammatory opinions ("AR owners are just nut cases with toy replicas") are shared by "Fudds" who would vote to take away EBRs. That's what's got folks riled up. Maybe you wouldn't, but there are those with very similar attitudes who take that one step further and so "no one needs such a gun". You make the claim that it's ok for you to judge folks with auto-loaders based on a "who you care to associate with".

Well, stop and think. There are some guys here who feel your opinions are uncomfortably close to antis.

 

[woof]

Click, That is hardly calling you a name. I was telling you what I would be thinking and why my reaction would be what it would be. I did not address anyone in this thread and call them a rambo (but you are tempting me).

 

[woof]

Keith, Hold on hold on hold on! You have posted a quote, "AR owners are just nut cases with toy replicas." and attributed it to me and that is totally falso. I have used the term replica and the term toy but have never called anyone a nut case. I think you need to retract that. As for my opinions being uncomfortably close to antis, maybe some of those guys need to get out of their comfort zone more often and see a whole range of views instead of just black and white.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Click, That is hardly calling you a name. I was telling you what I would be thinking and why my reaction would be what it would be.

Ah, so it's hypothetical name calling?

I'm sorry, that flunks the stink test something fierce.

 

[woof]

Click, Your sense of smell is as bad as your diction. Look up hypothetical before attempting to use the word.

 

[Ash]

"That said, if I meet you out in the woods and you have a military style semi auto, I'm getting away from you quickly because (sorry) I do think you're a rambo wannabe."

I'm not attacking at all, merely pointing out that when you say something that is overtly hostile to members of this board their responses should not be unexpected. You very clearly stated, after many members had already noted that they do hunt with semi-auto rifles of the kind you do not consider appropriate for hunting, that folks who do so are rambo wannabee's. You stated that after their statements. It did very clearly open you up to negative responses and you should not be surprised that it did.

Frankly, I don't hunt that way, preferring my bolt-action sporters because of an image I must maintain. Yet, when you lament the ruckus and then say "Or we could all just express our opinions, accept that they will differ, and let it go at that." you seem to indicate a certain surprise that folks would not be willing to be called "rambo wannabee" without response.

Are you welcome to your opinions? That is a tough one. I know Sarah Brady is not welcome to here opinions here. Are folks ready to be overtly flamed (rambo wannabee is not a compliment)? Not at all. And that, perhaps, is the crux of the matter. Had you merely stated you are not comfortable with that style hunting responses might have been less heated.

Ash

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Look up hypothetical before attempting to use the word.

hypothetical
noun
1. a hypothetical possibility, circumstance, statement, proposal, situation, etc.; "consider the following, just as a hypothetical"

That said, if I meet you out in the woods and you have a military style semi auto, I'm getting away from you quickly because (sorry) I do think you're a rambo wannabe.

An "if, then" conditional situation based on a non-existant event... Yeah, that looks like a hyothetical situation to me. If: Meet in the woods... Then: You're a rambo wannabe.

What about that isn't a hypothetical situation?

 

[Keith Wheeler]

No, you didn't call anyone a "nut case", you merely implied it and then back pedaled. I'll agree that you didn't use that term, but it is my opinion that's what you are saying.

There's been an incredible amount of information in this post to disprove your premise that "semi auto variants can't be _real_ assault rifles". Sure there's room for gray in this world, but facts are indeed either black or white. Gray is for opinion.

Let's take a look at an example:

Opinion: "I don't care to hunt with folks who use EBRs"

Fantastic. I honestly don't care to hunt with people I don't know, and as such am lucky to be invited to hunt a large tract of privately owned land, by the land owner.

Supposed fact: "AR-15s are just toy watered down replicas of real assault rifles". Shown false by the evidence of 1) numerous semi auto only military rifles, and 2) current doctrine by highly respected military organizations requiring riflemen to use semi-auto fire.

You've also stated that the primary reason people own semis is because they can't own a full auto but want to look like it. You've never answered Steyr or myself when posed with the reality of folks like us who have simultaneously owned both semi and full auto versions of the same firearm.

 

[woof]

You know, I've posted almost 500 times here since July and have generally found it a friendly and tolerant place. But if I can't say I respect your right to shoot and hunt with what you please but I might not want to join you without being attacked this way, then maybe I was wrong. Congratulations, you have alienated me. And believe it or not I "was" on your side. I wonder how many people you alienate every day like this? I've sold four guns here and bought several others in these few months. But I give you your way and I permanently withdraw from THR. I will not post again and I will PM mods and ask that my registration be cancelled.