Hunting seals

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The seals are being harvested for their fur. It is not at all "hunting".
Certain species are pests, and are killed to prevent or reduce damages, etc. The most obvious is the rat, but as mentioned the beaver can be a problem in some places. In others, it's the nutria.

Well that depends upon your definition of hunting I think. I think of hunting as the killing of any wild animal, rather than the narrower definition of killing the animals for "sport".

I don't frown upon killing animals for sport, if it's environmentally neutral or positive, but I think that restricting the definition of hunting to that construct plays into the anti-hunting agenda.

To me, the guy who hunts deer primarily to put venison on his table is no different than a commercial fisherman, or a fur trapper.

The guy who hunts prairie dogs for the challenge of hitting a very small target at 500 yards has every right to do so, in my thinking (provided prairie dogs aren't endangered), but limiting the definition of 'hunting' to his type of 'sport' makes it all too easy for the anti-hunter to claim any particular type of hunting is too easy and is therefore immoral as it doesn't allow "fair chase". In 50 years they'll have us hunting deer only with spears using that logic, and then there will be so few people left "hunting" that banning it altogether will be practical and easy for them to pull off.
 
To me and most hunters the difference in hunting and harvesting is the fair chase...regardless if its for sport, pelt, or fur.

Trapping mice in your house is not hunting. Mc Donald's killing their crop of chickens to produce nuggets is not hunting. Clubbing baby seals for the cash crop of fur is not hunting. Banging bovines on their heads for steaks is not hunting. Butchering pigs on a farm is not hunting.

Some seem to be less bothersome on the soul than others...but none are hunting. Like I said, I'm not going to judge the person for doing the clubbing or wearing the clubbed little whelp...but I won't do it or support it financially. I wouldn't protest it either. I'd just let my moral compass guide me through the landmines.

To stray a bit ;) Art got me to thinking about last year as my two sons and I were walking through the woods on the way back from a squirrel hunt. We didn't shoot any that particular day. A very young oppossum ran across the firelane and climbed to the tip of a sappling about eye level with my head...that's as far as the little bitty tree grew. Well, there we were, eye to eye. My double barrel 20 gauge was loaded w/ #6 shot . My eldest son's automatic was loaded with the same.

The youngest, my then 7 year old asked, "Aren't you going to shoot it daddy?"

My oldest (11 years old), exclaimed "No!"

My youngest asked "Why?"

My oldest said, "Because we are squirrel hunting. Not 'possum hunting."

I was very proud that day. My eleven year old got it. Hunting, to me anyways isn't going through the woods serial killing every animal of opportunity. Part of hunting is respecting nature. I don't feel that bashing baby seals is very respectful.

Just my opinion,
L.W.
 
I was very proud that day. My eleven year old got it. Hunting, to me anyways isn't going through the woods serial killing every animal of opportunity. Part of hunting is respecting nature. I don't feel that bashing baby seals is very respectful

And of course it's you're right to feel that way. I feel that your definition of "hunting" is a very narrow definition, easily legislated away with artificial constructs of moral compasses and "fair chase".

I, for one, feel that if you'd have had a reason to kill the opossum, it would have been well within the scope of hunting for you to do so, regardless of your intent when you'd began the hunt. You're intent to kill squirrels for your pleasure is no different to me than your feeling about other people "serial killing every animal of opportunity" is to you. I don't hunt for sport, but I don't begrudge you the opportunity.
 
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I don't hunt for sport, but I don't begrudge you the opportunity.

Stand,

I beg to differ with you. Each and every one of us on this board who hunt are sport hunters. Unless you are forced to hunt for survival your hunting is for sport. You can go to the grocery store and buy your food or your jacket. Therefore you choose to hunt. There are very few substinance hunters left in this world and none of them have the means to post on this web site.

We hunt becuase we choose to. We hunt because we enjoy it. We hunt because we are real people who do not deny our genetic make up and instinctual, emoitional need to hunt. That makes us all sport hunters, and thank god for it!!

If you hunt for food when you have the easier and less expensive option of growing it or buying it you are a sport hunter.
 
If you hunt for food when you have the easier and less expensive option of growing it or buying it you are a sport hunter.

That may very well be the case of most hunters. And I don't begrudge them that right or opportunity, but that is not the case for me.

I also disagree with your assertion that other than "being forced" to hunt for survival all hunting is for "sport". My "hunting" is largely limited to varmit control and trapping hogs (although I certainly wouldn't pass up a deer if it presented itself), and is predominately pragmatic rather than pleasurable.

Although I gain pleasure from a hundreds of lbs of free pork in my freezer, walks in the woods with my daughter, or teaching her to shoot and to be responsible with firearms, not to mention the hard facts of life, my gains are tangible, my rewards greater than my outlays, and I will never reduce it to the status of a "sport".
 
Although I gain pleasure from a hundreds of lbs of free pork in my freezer, walks in the woods with my daughter, or teaching her to shoot and to be responsible with firearms, not to mention the hard facts of life, my gains are tangible, my rewards greater than my outlays, and I will never reduce it to the status of a "sport".

I agree with your statement as this is far more to me than a "sport". It is a way of life.

However I have a very hard time when hunters segragate other hunters by labeling them. The labels are the following catagories "just a sport hunter", "Damn trophy hunter", "Meat hunter", "just a trapper", "bowhunter''. bow hunters often hate "Muzzel loader hunters" and Muzzel loader hunters hate those "G.D. Rifle hunters" who all hate "Houndsmen" who can't stand those "out of staters" Moslty "Frickin Texans" who are "Road hunters" who (I actually heard this last week can't stand them darn "Hippie hiker hunters" So on and so forth.

United we stand divided we attend PETA meeting and talk about what a great guy Castro really is while listening to Diane Finstien lecturing on the social accpetance of hating W.H.A.M.S. and superiority of Kerry for ruler.

Just a thought....
 
United we stand divided we attend PETA meeting and talk about what a great guy Castro really is while listening to Diane Finstien lecturing on the social accpetance of hating W.H.A.M.S. and superiority of Kerry for ruler.Just a thought....

I couldn't possibly agree with this statement more. That is why I am so adamant about hunting being more than just "sport". I don't at all denigrate the sport aspect of hunting, or hunters who hunt primarily for sport, I just feel that reducing it to sport allows the anti hunters an avenue of attack that could wind up depriving us all of what is a right. If they can claim "sporting fair chase" they will eventually legislate away all hunting rights.

Hunting is NOT the same thing as golfing. It may incorporate some of the same good qualities, but golf will only be here as long as it is not considered a hazard to society, and is dependant upon the good will of the majority. Hunting should be here as a right for the minority rather than a priviledge served at the whim of the majority.

P.S. You may have noticed that the name I chose for my moniker on this forum is that of a famous American Indian. Even though I'm (genetically speaking) pretty much a standard white american I chose that moniker as a little tribute to the great influence native Indians had to the formation of the society we now call America. One of the greatest contributions we now enjoy today is the right to hunt. Almost every state constitution from the early days of the republic included a right to hunt. A right not enjoyed by most european settlers when they left the shores on the other side of the atlantic. American Indians imparted upon our forefathers the importance of hunting as subsistence and as heritage, rather than just the "sport" aspect of it that was known to the Puritans in 1621 when they were first stepping foot on the "new world".
 
good points all...

"I, for one, feel that if you'd have had a reason to kill the opossum, it would have been well within the scope of hunting for you to do so, regardless of your intent when you'd began the hunt. You're intent to kill squirrels for your pleasure is no different to me than your feeling about other people "serial killing every animal of opportunity" is to you. I don't hunt for sport, but I don't begrudge you the opportunity."

Ahh but there's the rub...see if my 11 year old son is disciplined enough to hunt the animal that he strives for, and respects the other animals in and out of the woods, then he is more likely to find the animal that he is hunting for.

The 'serial killers' who walk the woods often smack the first blue jay they see...just because they can. It's not legal being a song bird and all. They aren't going to use the bird in any way or form...they just smack it because they feel entitled to do so. A might makes right Kant philosophy. Then afterwards they ponder why they never saw the deer they were hunting after unloading their rounds in a can, possum or whatever.

Others, such as in Stand's example, shoot the opportunistic deer. They aren't a deer hunter. They can't go out season after season and bring home a trophy. They just get lucky on the way to doing something else and make the shot. Killing a deer with an automobile isn't hunting either...

There is hunting and there is killing. Chasing a free-roaming lion and shooting it or shooting a lion at Busch Gardens both results in a dead lion...but one was hunted, given the opportunity to escape the situation, the other was not.

I think 'that' is the main difference in your situation involving the seals. Hunting an adult seal that can escape is hunting. Bashing a bunch of immature seals on the head that have no means of escape or defense is a harvest (if you're going to use their fur) or pest control (if you're going to save a fishery).

Neither are inherently evil. But, they are entirely different things. When you lump the killing of animals for a harvest in with the average hunter with a different code of ethics, then you're bound to have some divisiveness.

V/R,
L.W.
 
Stand,

Fundamentally we are in total agreement. We're just hung up on some terminology..:)
 
FWIW, I've trapped, I've hunted with "bonearrer" and guns, and I've done a serious deer-herd-reduction thing as part of a habitat protection/restoration project. I never considered the reduction effort as being hunting in what I think is the classic meaning of the word--with or without the adjective "sport".

I used the term "sport hunting" much as does H&H. (It seems to me that the degree of passion is irrelevant.) The seal killing isn't hunting, to me; it's a harvest for a commercial purpose.

So let's sorta give some thought to the semantics issue, to what folks are trying to mean. Since we don't have body language and facial expressions to help, we're stuck with just the printed word. IMO, it's pretty obvious there's a terminology problem...

:), Art
 
Seal liver wrapped in bacon mmmmmmmmm, .223 right between the eyes, but I'm white so what do I know. Seal oil and dried salmon, yuk, it's an aquried taste. You Norway boys got it made. Ahh seal steaks roasted over the open fire just a dream.:what:
 
No more Seal hunts?

What? don'tcha read yer National Geographics no more?

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0403/feature3/index.html

zm_zoomin.3.6.jpg

The Chill of the Hunt
Photograph by Brian Skerry

There's little physical friction these days out on the ice, where a hunter drags a dead seal to a boat. In years past, animal-welfare activists sparred with hunters over the killing of whitecoat pups. The activists prevailed: In 1983 the European Economic Community banned importation of the fur, and in 1987 Canada outlawed commercial hunting of pups. Now the Canadian government allows the harvesting of weaned and molted seals within established quotas, totalling 975,000 for the years 2003 to 2005.


>>>>>>>>>>

Today the fishing industry makes up 80 percent of the islands' economy. A thousand of the 13,000 islanders fish for a living, and a similar number process the catches of lobster, crab, herring, and mackerel.

Madelinot fishermen also remember the two decades of tribulation that began in the 1960s when antihunt campaigners, spearheaded by the International Fund for Animal Welfare and later by Greenpeace, triggered the eventual collapse of the seal trade. Portrayed as murderers and barbarians, fishermen suffered the contempt of the masses as television brought graphic scenes from the ice fields of the North Atlantic into the living rooms of Europe and North America.
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Taking part in what had been known as the greatest hunt in the world—an enterprise that in the 19th century had involved more than 13,000 men and 400 sailing ships—was no longer a matter of pride but a mark of shame. Once hailed as "Vikings of the ice," the sealers were now the scum of the earth. The Madelinots' cries of Nous ne sommes pas des bouchers! —We are not butchers!—sounded hollow when accompanied by photographs of upraised clubs and bloodstained ice.
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Jocelyn Thériault was a youngster when the protests peaked. Now 34, he owns a one-third share in a 65-foot (20-meter) fishing boat, Manon Yvon. He, his brother, and a cousin fish for snow crab and redfish. They used to fish for cod, too, but in April 2003 the North Atlantic cod fishery, which had failed to recover despite closures and dramatically reduced harvests, was shut down indefinitely by the Canadian government.
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The demise of the cod industry has given renewed purpose to modern-day harp seal hunters: The livelihood of fishermen like Thériault depends on harvesting whatever the sea has to offer—including seals. Since 1987, when Canada outlawed commercial hunting for whitecoat pups, the main focus of the hunt has been molted pups known as beaters—so named because they tend to thrash the water when they swim, not because the traditional method of killing them is with clubs. Today beater pelts can be worth 40 Canadian dollars or more to a hunter.
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I meet Thériault at the wharf in Cap-aux-Meules, the commercial center of the islands. He and his crew are loading supplies for the seal hunt, set to begin in a couple of days, ice permitting. Like all fishermen in this region, he can fish only eight months of the year because the coast is icebound through the winter. When he can't fish, he collects unemployment. With a 1.5-million-dollar boat to pay off, four months is a long time without significant income—and a long time to be ashore if your life is the sea.
 
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