Hunting with ELD Match 178g in a 308win

[z7]

wanted to share my experience with this bullet. It is a match bullet, I know, but i read many great things about hunting with the amax bullets and wanted to try out the eld match because I have a bunch and a good load already worked up, I had a short notice deer hunt pop up and didn’t want to zero the rifle to factory ammo

It was a 90lb/110lb spike at 50 yds on the last morning of rifle season (ky)

He was perfectly broadside and the bullet hit just behind the left shoulder and exited just behind the right shoulder, a “textbook shot”

He dropped, twitched/shook for 30 seconds and then relaxed (died)

Good shot and good reaction

BUT

When I gutted the deer I found several pieces of jacket material and several small bits of lead, the far side ribcage had a 3” hole but has a few smaller holes around that indicating fragments spreading out

The lungs were gone, with bits of bone and lead in mixed into the mush

The heart was missing the top half....

Both shoulders are eatable, I shot just behind so I would not mess up too much meat,

The shot was devastating, but I feel there are better bullets. I think the eld match is too soft and completely came apart on impact, very lethal on deer broadside, but I would NOT use these on bigger animals and I would NOT want to shoot a large deer in a front quartering shot, i suspect hitting heavy bone would reduce the lethality of the bullet

If you want a bullet that comes apart on impact and dumps all the energy, try an eld match with a 2600fps impact velocity,

I do not recommend shooting big animals or hitting heavy bone with this bullet, I will try a different bullet in the future

The good news is I made a clean and quick kill, I have deer meat and I learned something today

 

[Kaldor]

I shoot the 178 ELD-X. Just started loading them this year. Bullet is a legit 1/2" shooter in my gun. Ill have it out this weekend, and if I get something, Ill give some feedback.
I know guys use the Match bullets, but as you are finding the bullets are just not designed to hold together under impact.

 

[z7]

I shoot the 178 ELD-X. Just started loading them this year. Bullet is a legit 1/2" shooter in my gun. Ill have it out this weekend, and if I get something, Ill give some feedback.
I know guys use the Match bullets, but as you are finding the bullets are just not designed to hold together under impact.

The bullet worked great, massive trauma to all vitals, but I want something to hold together better in the event I don’t make a great shot because things happen and sometimes you hit heavy bone...

 

[USSR]

While I can't speak of the 178gr ELD Match bullet, I have been deer hunting for many years with the 178gr Amax in my .30-06. That bullet has done everything that can be asked of a bullet, including going thru both shoulders of a good size deer.

Don

 

[Kaldor]

The bullet worked great, massive trauma to all vitals, but I want something to hold together better in the event I don’t make a great shot because things happen and sometimes you hit heavy bone...

Yup, but weight retention is a big deal if you need to take a quartering or frontal shot. The ELD-X should hold together better as its designed as a hunting bullet.

 

[dgod]

Were there ELD-X Bullets Factory or were they Reloads?

 

[z7]

They were reloads with the ELD MATCH 178’s

Win brass, ccibr2 and 44g of varget, 2700fps at the muzzle

Hornady makes good bulllets and this post is not a knock on them, I used a match bullet for hunting because I was confident that I could achieve an ethical kill but also curious to see how they held up, in short the bullet didn’t hold up because it is a match bullet, I hit a rib at high speed and the bullet flew apart, the deer died really quickly

 

[USSR]

Hornady makes good bulllets and this post is not a knock on them, I used a match bullet for hunting because I was confident that I could achieve an ethical kill but also curious to see how they held up, in short the bullet didn’t hold up because it is a match bullet, I hit a rib at high speed and the bullet flew apart, the deer died really quickly

No, the bullet didn't hold up due to it's construction, not that it was a match bullet per se. The Hornady 178gr Amax is a match bullet, and I have found it will punch thru both shoulders on deer.

Don

 

[z7]

Don, I had a nice exit wound, golf ball sized in the skin, far side Rib cage had a large hole and a big piece of rib missing, it was a complete pass through, but it shed pieces of the bullet as it passed

It doesn’t bother me that bullet flew apart, if it was an eldx or a “hunting” bullet that shed weight like this I would be upset, but I used a bullet for a purpose it was not designed for.

I wanted to share my experience because I have read over and over how great the amax does on game but I was not impressed with the eld match for hunting

Maybe I will get another chance to shoot one with the eldx next time

 

[stringnut]

z7 , the point seems that the match version is not an appropriate bullet for most hunting. As it is not recommended for this it is not a surprise. However, your shot was carefully placed and did the trick. I would rather have a bullet that comes apart on deer than one that pencils right through. It doesn't take much to down average size with a broadside shot thru the ribs. Probably a shoulder shot would have done the trick, but, you sure would have had a a bloodshot mess. I used to run 150 gr Speer boatails at 2800 from 30/06. Knocked deer flat when hit in the ribs. Did the same on shoulder shots, but, sometimes ruined both shoulders
.

 

[z7]

Stringnut

I agree 100%. I wanted to share my experience with the eld match because I couldn’t find much info on how it performed on game while the amax has a large following of folks who love them for game.

I learned that a the eld match is soft and fragments impressively, good for some applications, not for medium to large game imo

 

[splattergun]

Interesting results. the ELD-X should give you the same impact as the ELD Match, perhaps with minor adjustment. Give that a try. After all, the X means 'Expanding' and is designed for hunting.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

Z7, since you said it was the last day of gun season, I assume you live in the Eastern part of the state in the mountains in a zone 3 or 4 county. I feel a little sorry for you mountain boys with your already fairly low deer densities that was compounded with the bad outbreak of EHD this year. Lots of KY have until this Sunday. While sitting in a tree in Bullitt county reading your post, just had a decent buck walk in on me. Nice wide racked 8 pt that would go 130-140. Took quite a bit of restraint to not pull the trigger but I finally decided to pass on him.
Glad that match bullet was able to kill a deer for you.

 

[z7]

Z7, since you said it was the last day of gun season, I assume you live in the Eastern part of the state in the mountains in a zone 3 or 4 county. I feel a little sorry for you mountain boys with your already fairly low deer densities that was compounded with the bad outbreak of EHD this year. Lots of KY have until this Sunday. While sitting in a tree in Bullitt county reading your post, just had a decent buck walk in on me. Nice wide racked 8 pt that would go 130-140. Took quite a bit of restraint to not pull the trigger but I finally decided to pass on him.
Glad that match bullet was able to kill a deer for you.

yes it is Clay county. our property has quite a few deer and very few hunters in the area. there used to be a lot of hunters (10yrs ago) but not anymore.
the mountains have quite a few deer in the right places, I just find it a little bit frustrating that I can't kill a doe for meat. I understand the management practices behind it, but a lot of hunters blast the first legal (antlered) deer they can and go home. those few bucks that get old enough grow up nicely.

somehow clay county got lucky and didn't get hit hard by hemorrhagic disease like a lot of the rest of East Kentucky.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

Got a buddy that lives in Jackson that lost almost all of his deer to EHD and another in in Pikeville that lost most of his as well. Glad yours faired better. Gonna take several years to recover for some of those places.

 

[z7]

Got a buddy that lives in Jackson that lost almost all of his deer to EHD and another in in Pikeville that lost most of his as well. Glad yours faired better. Gonna take several years to recover for some of those places.

that seems to be the story around much of the eastern part of the state. the harvest numbers are way down compared to last year.

 

[Varminterror]

Many of the tipped bullets out there will give the same response, regardless of whether they're match bullets or not. Tipped bullets "expand rapidly," and rapid expansion means weigh loss. I've been using the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip in 30-06 since the late 1990's, and the Nosler BT's and Hornady SST's and A-max's for over a decade (not to mention THOUSANDS ON THOUSANDS of V-max's), a guy will find jacket shards all over the place, and occasionally find the jacket separated (core usually passes clear through), but the deer drop like bags of rocks. The vitals look like jello salad.

A guy can say weight loss is bullet failure, and skip any bullet like that, or a guy can measure the results on game and determine whether they really care about fragments in the wound tract or not. Personally, I don't use any of these non-bonded tipped bullets for anything larger than deer, but for whitetails, they're incredibly effective.

 

[Orcon]

Thanks for the report! I am one of those weirdos that really appreciates a highly frangible bullet for hunting and I was kind of miffed that the A-max has been discontinued. The utter devastation they can bring to bear will never cease to amaze and amuse me. Those types of bullets really start to shine once they drop below 2200 fps, I took a doe with my 308 Win a few weeks back at ~530 yards and dumped her where she stood. Impact velocity was about 1675 fps, complete pass through. Here's a recovered 200 grain ELD-X at an impact velocity of approximately 2300 fps; straight on shot to the chest, total penetration 32.5 inches. He bucked and turned to run and then just got really sleepy, didn't even pull a full 180 before tipping over.

 

[jmr40]

There are 2 schools of thought on killing stuff. Use hard bullets that penetrate deep with less expansion. Or softer bullets that expand faster and penetrate less. And there are varying degrees in between. All work, just don't ask a bullet to do a job it wasn't designed to do.

Generally speaking the softer bullets put game down faster with a good hit. But they aren't meant to break bones and penetrate deep from bad angles. Especially with light for caliber bullets. All of the ELD bullets are on the heavy for caliber side and from all reports I've read penetrate at least as well as typical old school cup and core bullets of the same weight. Which ain't a bad thing. They also expand well at extended ranges, which once again this is what they are designed for. At closer ranges before speed has dropped off I've read several reports of over expansion, especially at magnum speeds.

I'm using the ELD-X, but have not had a shot opportunity yet. I've read a few reports that indicate the match bullet, ELD-M, is actually a tougher bullet and is preferred by some guys who have tried it. Between this forum and others where I hang out I've read similar posts on the ELD bullets on game including deer, moose, and elk. Every report indicated that there was more bullet expansion than expected. But all the animals were collected either in their tracks or within just a few steps.

 

[Nature Boy]

I've been using the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip in 30-06 since the late 1990's..... and will find jacket shards all over the place, and occasionally find the jacket separated

I was thinking the same thing. I used silvertips almost exclusively as my hunting bullet of choice for decades and more often then not the bullet would fragment and separate from the jacket.

However, I never had a reason to cuss the results. They stoned the deer.