Hunting Wolves

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wyocarp

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The latest "research" by the fish and wildlife might get us hunting wolves again.


Idaho Fish and Game biologists have established that wolves are the primary cause of death of radio-collared cow elk in the Lolo hunting zone, where cow elk numbers are projected to be shrinking by 13 percent a year.
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http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2008/12/07/features/outdoors/24-study.txt
 
Thats good news, I am glad they are finally looking at the FACTS of what there "reintorduction" is doing:fire:
 
13% a year is alot!

I think they'd better do more than kill a few wolves. I'd say this is going to also require them to reduce the hunting tags on elk in the short term. Or at least the ones for females.
 
but but they are sweet and lovable

and they eat the sick and why oh why would you ever think they present any danger to slower easier prey like humans? :neener:
There now that we got that out of the way.. I feel better
a season to control predator populations... a novel idea.
 
Humans trying to restabilize a predator / prey relationship destabilzed by loss of home range for both is a tall task. The pendulum will probably swing in both directions a few times before it reaches some natural balance. The answer is usually in the middle of the two extremes, being the "wolf huggers" and the "shoot anything remotely threatening crowd".
 
I dont know about hunting them. Trapping and poisoning is how they took care of the wolf problem first time around.
 
Treo, the whole issue is a legal one. Without the legal side of things, we would be shooting wolves in Wyoming right now. But because of some do-good people who don't care about the people who actually live and recreate in the areas surrounding where the wolves are living, we have this legal battle over the issue of how many wolves we need and how to control them now that their habitat is smaller than it was before and with many more people crowding in all over.

This isn't an issue for you, living in Colorado. Not yet anyways. You are having an explosion of coyote though. Which isn't nearly an issue.
 
There actually have been some wolves ( Mexican Greys) re-introduced into Colorado. Same issues on a somewhat smaller scale.

I'm all for managing the population but as some have said the answer is in the middle.
 
Humans trying to restabilize a predator / prey relationship destabilzed by loss of home range for both is a tall task. The pendulum will probably swing in both directions a few times before it reaches some natural balance. The answer is usually in the middle of the two extremes, being the "wolf huggers" and the "shoot anything remotely threatening crowd".
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+1.

In general predator and prey populations run in cycles. A large prey population leads to good eating for the predators, whose numbers increase, leading to overhunting until the prey population drops and eating ain’t so good any more for the predators so their numbers drop, allowing the prey population to bounce back. It is generally not possible for the predators to wipe out their prey. How do we know this? If it was possible there would be no more predators or prey. Wolves have been hunting elk in North America for a lot longer than man, and they have managed to keep the balance. Man, on the other hand… (passenger pigeons, dodo birds, tasmanian wolves, etc.)
 
I have colleagues who work with federal fish / wildlife, in "endangered species." Typically, and here's an example, the Fed. Govt. tries to pin the blame on some sort of wildlife population / predator issue rather than addressing the issue of diminishing habitat.

A prime example is Arctic Terns on the mouth of the Columbia River eating salmon smolts. The Terns are NOT the reason for the decline in salmon runs. The reason is the hydro-electric dams on the river. Any biologist will explain that to you.

Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.

Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat. It's a more complex issue than is going to be addressed with posts in a forum like this.
 
Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.

Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat.
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This isn't true. It might be true in some cases, but it's not true in Idaho, where half the state and most of the elk habitat is public land.

The fact is, there was one variable that was altered, and that was the wolf population (which BTW extirpated the actual local wolf population).

Furthermore, many things have an impact on habitat. Cyclical changes do, also. A few hundred years ago, England was a wine-growing region, for example.

Hydroelectric dams or not, if you want more salmon, then reducing predation will help you get them. It's not the terns' "fault". But tern predation does reduce the salmon population.

If you're suggesting that predator density is not an important variable in local prey population levels, and you know about biology, then you're lying.

It's a more complex issue
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This is true.
 
#9
Wyocarp Quote;
we would be shooting wolves in Wyoming right now. But because of some do-good people who don't care about the people who actually live and recreate in the areas surrounding where the wolves are living,

Although I do agree with you on the Do gooder Part, and the Idiot Judge who agreed with the do gooders. And No Disrespect to You personally! But Ultimately it was WY's approach to the Conservation of the wolves that gave the DO Gooders Fuel to get them back on the Engaged List. As we speak MT is putting Forth an Effort to Give Our Fish and Game the Ultimate Authority on Conservation for the Wolves.
 
ArmedBear;

Are you saying that the explosion Wolf Population is due to "Cyclical changes" ?

The Endangered Species list Brought them Back. I recently ran into a Wolf Pack of 10, in my Favorite Elk hunting area. After that day I didn't see 1 Cow Elk or Bull in that area. I know they didn't eat them all, but they shure ran them out. The Number of packs throughout MT WY ID are Greater than ever Before and Higher than Originally thought Buy Hundreds.

Hunting Season Here in MT was the Worst in Harvest in 2008, Bear was the Only thing that was above yearly average.
 
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Quote; from 7.62X25mm
Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.
Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat. It's a more complex issue than is going to be addressed with posts in a forum like this


Absolutely Not. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has Increased the Size of herds and there Roaming area throughout the States. http://www.rmef.org/AllAboutElk/ElkFaring/

Hunting predators is not encroachment on habitat, Housing Development is.
Hunting is why most places are not overwhelmed by Bears and such, like New Jersey. Conservation is Key, and a must.
 
LOL!!

Hunt them, hell, I do. We aint missing out on Caribou here either...LOL!

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index.cfm?adfg=game.wah

Above heres a "Coller" program, and it rather well known that Caribou that have ben collerd have 1/2 the life span that Non-collard Caribou. FnG has no explanation, but its true.
Maby the extra weight slows them down, or wears off much needed calories, or what ever, it documented that Collard animals dont live as long as the others, and being eaten by a Wolf is the last phase of a Caribou 's life.

Only People die in bed.

But , then again, This is Alaska, not "There" and these are my personal obserrvations.

Hey MTGunny!
My Dads a Mountain Brook guy, lake Blain and Swan Junction.... and I lived there for high school....."Flathead Class of 87" :)
Hunted there alot as well, your in some comparable country.
 
wyocarp, with all due respect, the State of Wyoming kinda ruined the whole de listing issue a few months back for Montana and Idaho. Montana and Idaho actaully had mamagement plans, whereas Wyoming had more of a "see it, shoot it on site" mentallity once they were originally delisted. IMO, we cant have that attitude, otherwise the wolves will always remain protected. We have to kinda find a good middle ground on the issue.

Idaho had a wolf population before they were re-introduced in the 90's. Ive known families who had property near stanley and over in Latah county where they had seen wolf tracks. Pencil pushers in DC would tell you otherwise but these were the natural/native grey wolves and the Canadian grey wolves drove them out and/or killed them off.

Idaho F&G has stated that Idaho's habitat could sustain roughly 200 wolves. Thats our own state officials with their numbers and figures and not figures from the Defenders of Wildlife members living in California. Im fine with some wolves being here, but we have well over 800 right now in our state, which is way too many. We have been lucky with some good snow seasons, which prevent drought. But if we get a bad season and ungulate numbers plummit(which happens cyclically) ranchers and farmers will see the worst of this. Hopefully no humans will become targeted if this happens.
 
+1 Idaho LT1

Have you heard about the wolf attack that was kept Hush Hush just over the Boarder in Canada. Ive tried to find Info on it, But some people don't want It Known.

Posted on diferent Thread here at THR
Quote;
Quote:
I'm all for reintroducing wolves and thus restoring our full indigenous species spectrum to the North American eco-system, PROVIDED THAT there are reasonable laws allowing culling by humans; i.e. (1) that a rancher or other person can shoot them without being charged with anything, if they are attacking livestock or people, (2) that each state's wildlife department has the right to regulate their numbers as they see fit, by establishing hunting criterion: season dates, numbers killed, etc.

I agree to this also.
 
Youre talking about the Kenton Joel Carnegie case where 2 of his friends friends encountered wolves that acted agressivley 4 days before Kenton was found dead outside their camp, killed and mostly consumed by wolves. Other people in the area had also encountered wolves that werent afraid of humans and acted agressivley. These wolves were completely healthy and had no signs of rabies after they were shot after the incidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenton_Joel_Carnegie

In India, in the last 28 years over 160 people(most children younger than 13-14) had been killed by wolves. There were times in the eastern part of rusiia, between 1870-1887 over 14400 people were reported to have been killed by wolves. In India, under British colonization, in 1878 over 620 people were killed by wolves.

Source for the Russian attacks is found in the book "Wolves in Russia: Anxiety throughout the ages" by Will Graves, p.222

The source for the attacks in India is http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/05/08/stories/1308017f.htm
 
But Ultimately it was WY's approach to the Conservation of the wolves that gave the DO Gooders Fuel to get them back on the Engaged List.
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Yup, and for the life of me I don't understand how that seems to be a secret.
 
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