Hypocrisy; where as Gun Owners do we draw the line.

[Black Toe Knives]

Where do we draw the line on hypocrisy. We cuss, hollar and scream when some store puts up a No Firearms Sign. We threaten to Boycott it. When we ask why they do it. They come off with some lame excuse. We do it for the safety of the Employees and Customers.

But we all go to Gun Show, We unload our gun and put zip ties in our actions, making them a useless paperweight. We all know Gun shows require this. Why because gun are dangerous and we don't want any accidents. If Gun owners, buyers, dealers and people in the Gun business require a no loaded weapons policy. Why do you complain when someone not in business requires the very same policy.

Until I can go in a Gun show with a loaded weapon. I am not going to worry about some store with a no weapons sign and I will not boycott it.

Because I actually stand for something. I believe if you Boycott one you have to Boycott the other and I really like Gun shows. I be damned if I will Boycott "The Blade Show", because they don't allow Guns either.

 

[Davek1977]

Everyone's tipping point is different. Appearently, yours is in a different place than some other people's. Thats fine. If we all agreed on everything, the world would be a boring place. I don't consider myself a hypocrit though, for boycotting some stores while still complying with the rules of the gun shows I attend. Maybe you think your position is "morally superior" (or at least theats the impression I got reading the post), but I see no reason to toss names like "hypocrit" around just because others have a different take on the situation than you do yourself. Just because you feel better yourself following your policy doesn't mean others should necessarily emulate it as SOP

 

[JTH]

Hey, this is the United States of Hypocrisy the majority of our Federal Government are hypocrites along with most of it's citizens.
JT

 

[hso]

Why because gun are dangerous and we don't want any accidents. If Gun owners, buyers, dealers and people in the Gun business require a no loaded weapons policy. Why do you complain when someone not in business requires the very same policy.

Because at a gun show people are handling their carry weapons testing holsters and magazine fit or having sights or triggers installed. In other businesses the firearm is secured in the holster and isn't handled.

 

[Sam1911]

A gun show (in my state) is just like any other venue. I don't boycott. Any gun I carry in for show&tell, sale/trade, holster fitting, or that would in any other way be handled will be unloaded and can be ziptied. I don't see any problem with that, as I like to see the action open on any weapon someone's handling in my presence.

However, I assume most of the participants and visitors keep their personal protection weapon in reserve. I know a far number of quite regular gun show patrons. I don't know any who admit to entirely disarming while in the facility.

 

[Sam1911]

For a really fun trip down this rabbit hole: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=456493

Caution: That one gets into metaphysics and theology by the end!

 

[Old Fuff]

Most gun shows are held in rented halls. Often one of the requirements is that the show producer have liability insurance, and more often then not the insurance companies require that firearms on display or carried by those attending the show be unloaded and secured.

Some may object to this, but no producer in his/her right mind is going to hold an open-to-the-public gun show without having liability insurance.

This factor may or may not apply to other businesses that are posted.

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't see a hypocritical line with these two examples; gun shows vs. retail establishment. I can carry openly or concealed into a gun shop like, say, Gander Mtn. Now, if I'm bringing in a gun for their gunsmith to work on, or to sell to their used gun dept, it needs to be unloaded because it is going to be handled and possibly disassembled.

 

[armoredman]

I like the sign Sportsman's Warehouse had in Marana, that loaded firearms will stay in the holster, and if you wish to try a holster for it, you must exit the store to unload the firearm, then return to fit test. I do not patronize establishments that tell me that me and mine must be defenseless and dependant, including gunshows.

 

[Guns and more]

Until I can go in a Gun show with a loaded weapon. I am not going to worry about some store with a no weapons sign

Gun shows have thousands of people handling guns.
Not all these people are knowledgeable or competent.
Besides, gun show promoters have lawyers and insurance agents too!
What do you think the liability insurance for a show would be if you insisted on loaded guns? The show would be out of business.
How long do you think it would be before a ND happened?
Then gun shows are no more.

I have no problem with the zip tie.

I remember being in a large box sporting goods store, and I happened to look towards at the gun counter. I saw myself looking down the barrel of a rifle with a scope. The customer had targeted me. I flipped him the bird and he moved off me (probably to someone else.)

Until you can guarantee me no nutjobs are going to the show, I'll take the zip tie.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I like the sign Sportsman's Warehouse had in Marana, that loaded firearms will stay in the holster, and if you wish to try a holster for it, you must exit the store to unload the firearm, then return to fit test. I do not patronize establishments that tell me that me and mine must be defenseless and dependant, including gunshows.

These are the signs I like reading too.

A gun store I used to frequent when I lived in Michigan recently had TWO NDs in the last year and have gone this route. They could have just as easily banned CC altogether (at least with a sign at the front door)

All the more reason for gun shows to protect themselves though. I dont like it either. I dont go to gun shows though. If I see a sign at a gun shop saying I cant carry in their store I ignore it. Maybe not the best move but I am not going to pull my gun out unless Im going to need it to defend myself. I already know which holsters fit and which ones do not and Im not going to sell my carry gun by concealed carrying it into the store.

Long story short it is the price we pay to have gun shows exist in this all too litigious cultrue we live in.

 

[2WheelsGood]

Regardless of the validity of the reasoning for not allowing guns at gun shows, it still makes it harder to blame a retail store for not allowing them for the same reasons.

Recently, a local woman trying on clothes accidentally left her loaded gun in the dressing room. Fortunately a responsible person turned it in to police, but that could have been a horrible situation.

And I remember not too long ago a story about a guy who dropped his drawers at a restaurant to go potty and had his gun fall out of the holster, hit the ground, and discharge into the toilet, which blew the toilet to pieces.

The point being that negligence can happen anywhere, and if you're going to offer that excuse for gun shows, it's hard to argue with other stores when they do the same.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Want to talk hypocrisy? If you go to a Washington Arms Collector show they won't even let you bring a gun in unloaded and tie wrapped if you are not a member! (non-members can go to the gun shows, they just have to pay an entrance fee AND leave all guns behind). Yet on the front page of their website, they have the cahones to make this claim:

http://www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/

Why Are We Here?
The Washington Arms Collectors (WAC) is a membership organization affiliated with the National Rifle Association. WAC puts on one of the largest gun shows in Washington State. You can and SHOULD become a member of WAC. Only members can buy and sell guns at our shows. Only members may carry firearms into the venue. Look through this site to find out all the ways that a WAC membership can be of value to you. WAC director positions are occupied by some of the most powerful people in the gun rights arena. WAC works to preserve your 2nd amendment rights. The WAC is based on the principles set forth by the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution which states that every free citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. WAC members VOTE!!

THAT is about the most totally two-faced hypocritcal statement I have ever seen made!

 

[TX expat]

I don't see that as hypocritical at all. As others have said, gun shows are significantly different than walking into Toys R Us. In any normal retail environment, you won't be pulling out your firearm under normal circumstances, nor will you be standing in a room full of people holding guns, all with various levels of safety standards and general common sense.

You may feel you are responsible enough to not make mistakes in a situation as that, but accidents can and do happen, and allowing loaded firearms to be mixed in with unloaded ones would be, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster. Not to mention that it would be more ammunition for the anti gun movement to talk up when something did happen.

For the record, I don't blame any store that wants to ban weapons on their premises; that's their right as a private property owner, and since I don't want someone telling me that I can't set the rules for my own private property, I won't infringe on the rights of anyone else to do the same. I don't patronize businesses that choose that path, but I support their right to make that choice.

 

[eldon519]

Not to semi-hijack, but I think the more prevalent hypocrisy tends to waft around the topic of which guns and arms should be legal for personal ownership. A significant portion of the government harbors the belief that so-called "assault rifles" are too much for us. Some gun owners agree; I'd say the concensus on this forum would oppose. But then where do you draw the line? Repeal 1986 Firearm Owner's Protection Act? What about the 1934 NFA? Should you be able to have an RPG? What about a Javelin? An M1 Abrams? An F-22? An ICBM?

The limit one selects really isn't so important; it's interesting how people justify one and not the other and how they come to decide what's "enough". A lot of the time, the arguments for or against ownership could easily be slid up or down the firepower spectrum, and that's when the hypocrisy often starts. Very few people are willing to take libertarian thought "all the way", perhaps for the better.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Considering that at the time of the American revolution, the founding fathers had the same level of firepower that the government that they revolted against had... I wonder how they would feel about the American citizen being restricted by the government to not be able to possess the same level of firepower as that same government.

 

[mljdeckard]

As far as I know, in Utah, there is no law or regulation requiring you to disclose if you are carrying concealed at a gun show. I wasn't searched or wanded. I did produce the Colt Woodsman I was having appraised to be cleared and zip tied.

If gun shows were free of yahoos, I might complain. But they aren't. My uncle worked the clearing table for years, he had a jar of cartridges he had popped out of 'cleared' guns over the years.

 

[ILikeLead]

Black Toe Knives. I agree 100%

I've only attended one show since I was a kid.

I believe concealed carry is just that, and there were no metal detectors at the check in or exit door.

 

[aryfrosty]

Guns shows...

I am afraid I have gotten over going to gun shows around my home in NH. Everything you see, as far as guns go, is seriously overpriced and the so-called "dealers" are arrogant. I end up paying $7.00 to walk around and have my thoughts insulted by some dealer who wants to hoof off something like a "genu-wine Veet Namb SKS 47 carried by a VC General in the tunnels of Bangkok to fight GIs." Usually for $700.00 out the door. And usually on an el cheapo SKS you can get elsewhere for $100.00. (Yes, I know the tunnels were in Cu-Chi).
I don't carry any guns in to sell. I always carry my concealed weapon. Key word is concealed. I want to able to protect myself if one of the highly professional gun dealers snaps.
I do have to say I enjoy seeing the antique weapons and if there are knifemakers there I haunt their tables. I dearly love handmade knives.
Otherwise I go to my local toystore, "Riley's". They let me carry concealed...they don't charge a door fee and I can look at every gun in the place if I want to. And if I see something I want...which is about every time I go in...they will sell it to me at very fair prices.

 

[wishin]

.....However, I assume most of the participants and visitors keep their personal protection weapon in reserve. I know a far number of quite regular gun show patrons. I don't know any who admit to entirely disarming while in the facility.

I guess it depends on the State and/or the crowd one runs around with because I know of many that honestly admit to entirely disarming at gun shows, myself included.

 

[mljdeckard]

And I also should add, I don't remember the last time I paid to go to a gun show. I have family who work for Crossroads of the West who score me passes. Any deal you think you will find at a gun show needs to consider your expense to go to the gun show in the first place.

 

[Sam1911]

I guess it depends on the State and/or the crowd one runs around

As for the state, most definitely. In some states the posted signs would have some force of law.

As for the crowd, it would be hard to say. My shooting crowd is pretty ... special.

 

[Russ Jackson]

I think loaded guns at a Gun Show is a bad idea. I worked in a gun store for years and you would not believe how many people bring in unloaded guns with one in the chamber. If people would leave loaded guns holstered I am fine with it. But if you open carry sooner or later it would come out for discussion or to show someone and a ND would take place. Plus if you were open carrying I bet pick pockets would steal them. It gets pretty crowded in the aisles and one would be stolen. Imagine the scene at a gun show if an open carry gun was stolen. Why would you want to carry a loaded gun at a gun show? ...Russ

 

[DT Guy]

It's essentially impossible to follow the four rules at a gun show. The clearing essentially acts as a global 'first rule' for the room.

It's only hypocritical if you think there'll be 200 waving guns around at Costco, in which case your analogy might make sense.

Larry

 

[pbearperry]

Forcing folks to unload and make safe any firearms they are bringing into a gun show is smart as far as I am concerned.Why do I say this?I feel that the show safety otherwise would at the mercy of the biggest idiot gun owner there.
To me it would also be stupid for people to start up cars at an inside car show to let people hear the purr of the engine.Every gun owner is as careful as I am sure most folks are in this forum.