I am second guessing my decision to get my first handgun..

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ErminioB

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Honestly what follows could just be out of a frustration moment, but...
long story short, soon I'll become an Arizona resident (Green Card) - I was planning to get a CCW permit, get a gun then carry concealed. While getting into this mindset I find out this "No handgun" sign that any business can post and discover that ignoring it poses the risk to get charged..keep in mind that any charge for me could result in termination of my Green Card and bye bye America, so definitely I want to avoid that. Now it seems every restaurant I go has this sign; I understand malls and theaters are also "gun free" areas, so what should I buy a gun for? Home defense? I'm pretty much never at home and anyway it's actually a small apartment - I doubt I could get to my gun in time if anyone was breaking in, especially if I'm sleeping or listening to music with my headsets..so again, what should I buy a gun for? It seems to me that the "right to bear arms" has been really diluted even here in Arizona, America.
Bear with my moment of frustration, please - kind regards, Erminio
 
Thanks for the quick answer - but I was indeed referring to

4-229 A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises.

I read this as "if I ignore the sign, I am breaking a law"..but I am definitely not educated about guns laws - could you please tell me where I am wrong? Appreciated, Erminio
 
Thanks for the quick answer - but I was indeed referring to

4-229 A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises.

I read this as "if I ignore the sign, I am breaking a law"..but I am definitely not educated about guns laws - could you please tell me where I am wrong? Appreciated, Erminio
Click to expand...

You need to look at AZ law. Do those signs carry force of law. Here in KY they do not. All the owner of the business can do is ask you to remove the gun from the property or leave the property. You can only be arrested for trespassing if you refuse to leave.

I believe AZ is the same. That said I personally respect property owners rights so I do not carry into business or buildings that are "posted".
 
Couple of thoughts...

My wife - until fairly recently - held a green card and ccw here in Arizona. It's easy enough to not get caught afoul of the various "no gun"signs. CCW doesn't mean you MUST carry, merely that you're legally permitted.

As the current status of concealed carry in Arizona is relatively open without a CCW, the major advantage to the card is reciprocity in some other states and simplified firearms purchases within Arizona.

There has been only one time that I have inadvertently entered a "no gun" establishment and had my firearm addressed. When I took off my coat, one of the principals of the establishment politely asked me whether or not I had seen the sign - to which I equally politely stated no. It was in fact obscured but I bet I've missed several over the years.

Apartment dwelling and firearm ownership - that's a whole other can of worms. You'll certainly hear folk come on here telling tales of living their entire lives in apartments with their gat sitting out on the coffee table without it acting as a lure to the neighboring miscreants. Then, there's the rest of us.

I'll just say that you'll need responsible securing options and even with that, if your apartment is broken into and the securing system discovered but left unmolested... they'll be back, properly equipped. Same goes for any shooting paraphernalia found lying about or seen carried to and from your vehicle.

As to the protection of your Legal Immigration/Permanent Resident status... You're correct in looking to protect it above all.
 
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/4/00229.htm&Title=4&DocType=ARS

...
F. This section does not prohibit a person who possesses a handgun from entering the licensed premises for a limited time for the specific purpose of either:
1. Seeking emergency aid.
2. Determining whether a sign has been posted pursuant to subsection A of this section.



Based on that ^ I would look for a sign and then, as an additional CYA, ask a 'manager' type if they prohibit licensed carriers from possessing holstered pistols on their premises. Record who you speak to and when.

But I'm not a lawyer and I don't live in AZ
 
Where in Arizona are you? Speaking for the southeast corner area I find it hard to find businesses that are posted. Only two come to mind, (Verizon and AT&T Wireless) that are phone related and part of larger corporations. Generally that's true of restaurants that are part of a larger chain.

I suggest that while not carrying do some looking around for businesses that are not posted. Take note of them and where they are. Thereafter when you do want to carry patronize them. Put bluntly, they are the ones who deserve to get your money.
 
Hi, I live in Chandler- I updated my profile info, thanks for pointing out the gap.
Good point there - they can choose not to like my gun, I can choose to bring my money elsewhere.
 
I've been carrying for years here, it is not that big a deal. When you first start carrying you will notice a few signs you stop going to those places and things settle down. They are almost always a corporate chain with policy from out of state.
 
Here in Nevada we have both open carry and shall-issue CCW. I just don't take my gun with me when I go to prohibited places like the Post Office, police departments and courthouses. If I walk into a place like a restaurant that has a sign posted, I go elsewhere as I don't feel safe in a place that wants to disarm it's patrons.

I noticed that the local Cabelas has a sign posted that all guns are to be unloaded before entering their store...except CCW holders are exempt. I think they got a lot of flack before they changed their sign.
 
From what I've been told, and don't hold me to this as each state may be different, but in NC if a place of business that posts a "no guns on premises" sign finds out you're carrying, they will likely just tell you to leave and not necessarily file charges against you. Which makes sense, as it wouldn't be good for business to make too much of a stink.

If you refused, they could have you arrested, but only for criminal trespassing. That would impact your eligibility for your green card, though, so my suggestion is to continue to carry and avoid establishments that don't allow guns on the premises.

We should not be supporting such establishments, anyhow, if we are pro-2nd amendment.
 
4-229 A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises.
Click to expand...

Devils n the details, my friend.

"Person with a permit issued..."

So don't get a permit. You don't need one in AZ.
 
smalls said:
Devils n the details, my friend.

"Person with a permit issued..."

So don't get a permit. You don't need one in AZ.
Click to expand...

I somehow doubt that a person without a license can carry in an off-limits location while a person with a license cannot.

Besides that, if you travel much you screw yourself over not having a resident carry permit.
 
So don't get a permit. You don't need one in AZ.
I somehow doubt that a person without a license can carry in an off-limits location while a person with a license cannot.

Besides that, if you travel much you screw yourself over not having a resident carry permit.
Click to expand...

Call it a loophole, or whatever you want, that's how it's written.

But yes, you screw yourself if you travel.
 
Yes, the devil is in the details: if you don't have a permit in AZ, whether issued by AZ or a state with reciprocity, it is illegal to carry in an establishment that sells alcohol for on-site consumption, sign or no sign. It is only legal to carry there if you have a permit, and if there is no legal signage prohibiting it.
 
Yes, the devil is in the details: if you don't have a permit in AZ, whether issued by AZ or a state with reciprocity, it is illegal to carry in an establishment that sells alcohol for on-site consumption, sign or no sign. It is only legal to carry there if you have a permit, and if there is no legal signage prohibiting it.
Click to expand...

But we aren't talking specifically about places serving alcohol, just places with no carry signage in general.
 
The United states doesn't deport people any more, I wouldn't worry about it. Just get a permit and do your best to avoid the places that won't let you carry.
 
I am not a lawyer, but as I read this, it is an affirmative defense if you are not informed of the presence of the sign. I read this to mean that if they dont tell you about the notice you will not be charged.

This basically follows the pattern of you enter, they ask you to leave while telling you about the sign. If you dont leave at that point you are violating the law.

Also the sign has to be the sign from the state, they cant just make up any sign they want.


A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the
premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits
the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following
requirements:
1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the
liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".

B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted
the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.

C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:
1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the
violation.
2. Any one or more of the following apply:
(a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
(b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
(c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty
days before the violation.
Click to expand...
 
But we aren't talking specifically about places serving alcohol, just places with no carry signage in general.
Click to expand...

smells, you partially quoted an Arizona Revised Statute that specifically refers to liquor licensees and then asserted based on an incomplete understanding of the wording of that statute that a person who does not have a permit is legal to carry in such a location in spite of the signs, which is incorrect due to other portions of the statute banning non-permit holders from carrying in such a location anyway. Therefore, it is clear that the conversation has specifically gone in the direction of talking about places licensed for on-site consumption, which includes most of the non-fast food restaurants in the state, and is therefore of significant interest to those who would like to carry in Arizona without running afoul of the law.
 
smells, you partially quoted an Arizona Revised Statute that specifically refers to liquor licensee
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see. I saw no mention of alcohol in what was posted, my apologies.

I still think, however, that the OP isn't necessarily interested in just bars, but whether or not a sign posted anywhere carries weight of law.

Basically, he read the law regarding carry in establishments serving alcohol, read it as I just did, and assumed it meant any establishment with a sign.
 
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