I Deemed Myself

[Magnumite]

My 2 cents coming up.

I have heard this condenscending nature before at shooting ranges by the local "expert". The shooter was having jambs. The expert goes over to look and offers his "help". The he tells the shooter, "First you have to get rid of this junk and get a good gun". He then shows off his Sig and spouts how much it cost.

Or how about the time at a PPC seminar where two guys with Pythons are looking at their targets and then another guys and says, "Even the guy with the Ruger outshot us". We know its not the gun.

It turns off new shooters big time. Who wants to indulge in a hobby or sport they know so little about then be criticized for it. They need guidance, not to be bashed. Now this guy will be always wondering if he can make a sound decision when buying a handgun. He may avoid it and stop shooting.

The origonal poster could have been positive and stated major shooters are winning major national matches with Glocks, easily improved trigger pulls are possible, good selection of sights and parts when the shooter was ready to up grade, if the upgrade would even be necessary.

I am not a Glock "fan" but I will give credit where it is due. Glock makes a good pistol. I have shot a couple and they are nice shooters. Why knock it? I do plan on getting one once I get that Ruger 345 and that...

 

[gudel]

I have heard this condenscending nature before at shooting ranges by the local "expert". The shooter was having jambs. The expert goes over to look and offers his "help". The he tells the shooter, "First you have to get rid of this junk and get a good gun". He then shows off his Sig and spouts how much it cost.

Well, CB900F saved one from the dreaded Glock.

Of course, I have no idea why he recommended a different brand of tactical tupperware...

I have never seen a glock jam in the range, nor have I seen people with their HK jamming in the range. I never had a jam of anykind with my Glock or HK, and I have never had anyone talk smack about my guns either, including my jam-0-matic 1911.

Most people I've seen have either 1911, or Glock. I can tell you though, I've seen people's 1911 jam in the range, including mine.

 

[Magnumite]

gudel, nice experiences for you. May you have many of those.

And many holes in the x rings

 

[Illuminaughty]

Fella's;

Not 'redeemed' which means ya did somethin' not-so-good to begin with. I got it right the first time & boy am I proud!

A fella I've known for about a year came into the shop the other day & said he'd bought a handgun. We'd talked before about guns, he's an enthusiast who's been living in 'Politically Correct' climes. Now that he's in Montana, he's able to actually live the second amendment. He'd gotten a Ruger 10/22 this past summer on my suggestion. Now he said that he'd gotten a pistol.

Since he hadn't discussed this with me, I asked him what he'd gotten. He said the 'G' word. I asked him, "why"? He replied that he'd asked the cop he knows about what to get & the officer had suggested 'that brand'. He then said "you don't sound enthusiastic". I told the truth; that I wasn't, but a lot of people were.

"So what would you suggest?", he asked.

I gave him a short list that included in no particular order: CZ, SIG, H&K, S&W 3rd gen, and Taurus. With the disclaimer to try all of them, what fit me wouldn't neccessarily be what worked for him. At this time he told me that he'd looked the miscegnation of the Austrian military & Legos GMBH over & didn't like the cheap feel & looks of it. And by the way, what did I have?

The store gave him a full refund & has ordered an H&K USPc for him. I pointed out that the H&K also has a 'plastic' frame, and was substantially more expensive. To which he replied, "I can feel the quality here".

It's cold here in central Montana right now. I do believe that I'll let the cyber-flames warm the cockles of me heart from the outraged owners of the 'G' machines.

, , 900F

Its a good thing you caught him right after he bought it, and not after he shot it.

Otherwise you'd be talking about him saving up for a H&K USP, not trading in a superior gun for it.

 

[Magnumite]

" ...not trading in a superior gun for it." (italics mine)

Ooo, busted! That is a 2 pointer!

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

It's so interesting to read the positions of the Glacksters. I'm supposed to lie about how I feel about the thing & support the original decision - which he didn't make himself, but on the suggestion of another 'expert'. I'm not supposed to offer viable alternatives when asked to do so, but only follow The One True Way.

Truly, the cockles of me heart are warmed knowing that the High Road is being taken by the espousers of such sentiments

900F

 

[JohnKSa]

I'm supposed to lie about how I feel about the thing

Nobody said you had to lie, and besides, I don't understand why you think that it's your duty to make your FEELINGS obvious. The fact is that people don't always make purchasing decisions the same way you or I would. That doesn't make their decisions BAD, just different. Trying to get everyone you know to align with your preferences is not necessary and in some cases (including this one) is nothing more than bad manners. Especially if you enjoy "expert" status with the person and abuse that position simply to push your preferences.

I have friends who own guns that I don't care for, but unless their choices are unsafe (pot metal guns) or patently unsuitable for their application (.44Mag revo for CCW, etc.) I refrain from commenting negatively. That's just simple courtesy.

I'm not supposed to offer viable alternatives when asked to do so

According to your story (as told by you) he didn't ask for any alternatives until you made your negative feelings about his original purchase plain. That is NOT the same thing as simply having someone ask you for alternatives.

It's so interesting to read the positions of the Glacksters.

If you persist in believing that only "Glacksters" would respond negatively to your antics, there's not much more that can be said.

Pigeonholing detractors is a tidy way to sweep constructive criticism under the rug, but it almost always requires that you be dishonest with yourself.

 

[Raph84]

Fella's;

Truly, the cockles of me heart are warmed knowing that the High Road is being taken by the espousers of such sentiments

900F

I always find it interesting when people trash others, yet when anyone comes back at them in an even mildly argumentative tone they remind people of the name of this forum. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your neighbors eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own (matthew 7:3).

Any way this is why I rarely post.

 

[medmo]

There is plenty of scripture providing guidance in the righteousness of men judging other men. I can find none regarding publicly proclaiming a judgment on a firearm model, design or manufacture.

THR is about opinions and those interested in other's opinons. I think it would be boring and completely worthless to me if all of the posts duplicated my thoughts and beliefs.

Some folks are acting like CB900F took somebody out back and rubbed their nose in their own poop because you don't support his opinion. I don't agree with CB900F's opinion here but I certainly welcome him to it.

Now if CB900F wants to debate some facts I would tell him that a Glock is a pretty good design for a novice. There isn't a whole lot there to think about operationally besides general firearm safety. I think it is a good design for novice to "cut their teeth on" and let them focus on the front sight.

 

[JohnKSa]

If you look back, I never suggested that he change his beliefs/preferences, nor hinted that his beliefs/preferences were the issue. In fact, I even made a point of saying right up front that it WASN'T about his preference, it was about how he handled the situation.

It's NOT about the brand. It's NOT about right and wrong (or righteousness). It's about being courteous, and about not imposing your own preferences on a newbie simply because you can.

Sure, he's welcome to his opinion, and he's certainly free to voice it, but there are times when it's not exactly the best manners to let it all out. When a newbie comes to you to talk about his new purchase, that's not the time to make your "lack of enthusiasm" so obvious that he can't help but notice.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Blocks . . .

gun compnay . . . . cult

gun company . . . . cult

gun company . . . . .cult

Can't decide!

Maybe I should by one to see what its all about . . . . . naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

- HK and 1911 owner that uses a 44mag for CCW

 

[JohnKSa]

This is almost comedic.

Clearly common courtesy is dead when:

1. People can't even recognize bad manners when they see them.

2. People think that the proper response to someone commenting on bad manners is to accuse that person of being a cult member. (Amazing irony...)

 

[Highland Ranger]

Come on John, we're just funning!

The tip off is somone who owns multiple 1911's attributing cult characteristics/status to another firearm.

That would be an example of IRONY!



Enjoy the season man!

 

[JohnKSa]

Enjoy the season man!

I wish it were over. Have to work 12 hrs tomorrow and all day Christmas Eve. If I'm lucky I'll be off Christmas and won't have to work much next week. And the in-laws are hitting town tonight so I'll have a full house to come home to after the fun at work. Which also means the two days I did have off this week were mostly spent getting the place ready for the visit.

And I'm not getting paid for any of it. Most of the time at work will be put in while I'm officially on vacation...

The only bright spot (literally) is that my Black Bear Search and Rescue flashlight came today--852 lumens of eye-popping fun in a package that's externally indistinguishable from a 4D Maglite.

Ummmm... You did ask me how things were going, right....

So, what kind of .44Mag do you CCW?

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Hmmmm, communication without emotive content. Not gonna say it can't be done, but it would take a concerted effort by a gifted team of communicators to do so. Yet, it seems that it should be done, according to some.

Semantics, a body of learning that specifically addresses the emotive content of communication.

'Imposing your preferences' semantic content arousing visions of concentration camps & torture chambers.

In any case, the friend was over last night & we went over his new H&K. He remarked that before he got the Gork, he'd put his money down on a Hi-Point. When the cop heard that, the officer apparantly took out his verbal truncheon & sinned the same way I done dood. Friend was looking for something of higher quality & therefore compared the Hi-Point to the Austrian Legend at the gun shop, without the cop, & opted for the plastic fantastic. And believed that it was the ne plus ultra of handguns. Then, another opinion was put forth, mine, & he opted to step up in quality again.

Money not being the object, quality was the driver. Neither the cop, nor I, accompanied him to the store & made sure he went with the suggested choice. So much for the imposition.

But, dear friends, it's been entertaining, however it's gone on long enough. So for all the protesting to the contrary, I really do think it's all about who's plastic got picked.

Have a Merry Christmas & to all a good night.
900F

 

[JohnKSa]

communication without emotive content.

Oh brother.

Be happy with the guy about the new pistol he bought. If you can't share another person's emotions just for the sake of being nice, you have some work to do before you're fully human.

I really do think it's all about who's plastic got picked.

I'm sure you do. People invariably judge others based on what they know to be true about themselves. Your actions and words make it painfully clear that it's all about brand to you so naturally, in your view, that must be what everyone else is thinking too.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Inlaws: I find that drinking helps.

Carry 44: That's a bit of a story. I bought 1 of 100 of the ill fated 329PD Lew Horton Performance Center Specials. Different from a regular Smith 329pd in that is had a shorter 3" barrel made from Titanium.

There's a bunch of threads on here from the summer before last concerning the issues some guys had - long story short the gun got recalled because it had a tendency to fly apart.

Another story about replacement options also documented here. Long story short, I had them remount the titanium barrel on a 629 stainless frame and thoroughly work over the gun - trigger et al.

So it's heavier, but stays together when you shoot it. Work of art - I love it.

Smith was great about the whole thing - a class act.

 

[JohnKSa]

You must get some interesting looks when you tell people you carry a .44Mag concealed. I honestly thought you were joking at first...

I remember the 329 fiasco--barrels wanted to go downrange with the bullets.

 

[medmo]

There are humans making posts here? Crap, I'm on the wrong forum again. I don't believe in CCW 44 mags. Years back I purchased one of the short bbl'd Horton Model 29 44 mags because it seemed like such a great idea at the time. One session at that range completely eliminated the "great" idea thing. It hurt really bad regardless of how hard I flinched pulling the trigger. 44 spec ? Charter 2000 Bulldog. My specimen is a high quality one and I like how they made the design more modern.

 

[Highland Ranger]

I'm a big boy, it gets lost in the clothing . . .

the original lew horton 329 actually bruised my hand with full house loads - I have a range report on here somewhere.

With the 629 frame and the compensator, it's stout, but shootable. Can't say I enjoy it as much as I do shooting one of the 1911's, or my Model 41 (22 cal) but it's not terrible.

 

[Cousin Mike]

This thread reminds me of an experience I had last night, making the final payment on my Sig P220 (which I'll be picking up in about 2 hours). I asked the salesman for Sig magazines and he brought them out. $45 for 8 rounds, not too terrible. Then he mentioned that at that particular store, their H&K mags were around $75. I made an idle comment in conversation, something like "Glad I waited to get the USP then."

The salesman seemed to turn red in the face with disgust, and proceeded to bash H&K like nothing I have ever heard. Called them everything but guns, used all kinds of 4 letter words talking about how terrible they were, how he "...would never buy one of those overpriced plastic pieces of sh*t," etc. etc. etc... Very personal. I'd never seen anything like it, although it was hilarious to me how emotional he was getting about it. Have to wonder what would make someone do that.

I'm still going to buy one. But, then again, I've always been very confident in myself and my decisions. Someone who is not confident in themselves is always going to be swayed by one persons opinion or anothers. Not sure if I agree with how he did it, but at least 900F recommended another quality pistol, and his friend was able to get a refund for his Glock.

FWIW, I personally would have congratulated my friend on his new Glock and asked when we were going to shoot it.