I don't get loaded chamber indicators

[danez71]

So far....
We have someone saying there has been a report or 2 of a malfunction in a Ruger MKIII 22lr. NOTE: For all of those using the Ruger MKIII 22lr for self defense, please take this into consideration.


And we have someone claiming the (hardened?) steel LCI is going to wear out being rubbed against much softer lead, brass, and copper. Metallurgy be damned!


And that the LCI is encouraging some from following the 4 Rules. Most likely, those people weren't following the 4 Rules to begin with.

But I don't get my panties in a wad because <snip>.

rc

Conversely, I think some people just aren't happy unless their panties ARE in a wad about something...anything.



ETA: The witness hole on my MPc is only mildly helpful. With brass cartridges in good light its ok but in dim light or nickel plated cartridges, its not helpful at all in practical terms.

 

[Fiv3r]

I can take or leave them as long as they aren't a garish snag-hazard like the SR series.

I don't mind the little bump out on my FNS or Beretta 92fs.
I do prefer a witness hole if possible. My Pico is pretty easy to verify at a glance since all I have to do is check to see if I can see a little brass shining.

In all honesty, I only keep two guns loaded in my house, so a LCI isn't really needed. I keep my pocket edc and my nightstand pistol loaded in the safe by my dresser. The rest of them are stored locked away with no mags inserted.

If they are by my bed or in my pocket, they are loaded.

Still, the indicator isn't a bad thing if it's passive.

 

[chicharrones]

The loaded chamber indicator on say, a Glock, is just a little thing on the extractor.
No big deal one way or another.

That's my favorite kind. Simple, not likely to break on its own, and additional machine cuts in the slide were unnecessary for its installation.

 

[entropy]

In my opinion, that is the problem with these--you can get dependent on something that may break or on other handguns with just a port, not read it properly. I may be old fashioned but I will not depend on anything but my own chamber checking eyeballs.

The casing pushes them out. How can that malfunction and 'not read properly'?

Only one of my pistols has one; It's handy, but I prefer eyeballing the chamber also.

 

[Plan2Live]

So you are concerned that a LCI might, maybe, could possibly, heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy that read on the Internet, break and keep the slide from going into battery but you are okay with pulling the slide out of battery to do a brass check/press check and you aren't concerned it might not go fully back into battery? Really? I'd call that selective speculation.

 

[jdh]

All I'm saying is it is an aid not an absolute.

 

[Wanderling]

Considering that an awful lot - maybe a majority - of accidental shootings happen with guns that are "unloaded," maybe it's not such a bad thing to have an indicator. Unlike things like mag disconnects, which can mess with the trigger feel, I'm not really aware of a downside to them. Most of my guns don't have them, and that's not a problem IMO, but it doesn't seem like something to get worked up about.

^^^^ This.

I like the way Glock did theirs - completely unobtrusive yet simple & easy to check.

 

[Old Dog]

This thread is proof positive that large numbers of gun-owners will consistently seize upon the most minute, benign aspects of any firearm about which to moan and bitch.

Frankly, it's never occurred to me over the past forty years of owning and using firearms, to actually complain about the presence of a loaded chamber indicator.

Now, if you're whining about front-cocking serrations, I'm with ya ...

 

[Kleanbore]

ants beat me to it. Georg Luger put one on his design.

Without one, the only way to make sure that there is a round in the chamber is to open the action part way. I prefer not having to do that.

 

[euclid]

I actually had to use a gun I had tucked away in my house for a self defense encounter. I couldn't remember what condition I left it in and, in my case, I didn't even think to check. I just jacked the slide back to load a round. It turned out my pistol had a round in the chamber, ready to go, so I ended up ejecting a live round, but I would have rather done that than not have a round in the chamber when I needed it.

After that experience, I always questioned the use of the the loaded chamber indicator, other than police officers who want to check the condition of their weapon quickly before or after their shift. In other words, if you routinely carry and have time to check I see its utility but for the rest of us, when the crap hits the fan, we probably won't have time nor care to check.

 

[Kleanbore]

...for the rest of us, when the crap hits the fan, we probably won't have time nor care to check.

That's really not the ideal time to check.

 

[GBExpat]

I actually had to use a gun I had tucked away in my house for a self defense encounter. I couldn't remember what condition I left it in and, in my case, I didn't even think to check. I just jacked the slide back to load a round. ...

Touching the LCI, if it is so equipped, would take no longer than racking the slide ... but racking the slide will certainly confirm for you that a round is chambered.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Let see here...Loaded chamber indicator on my Kimber...Hummmm...Must be that real fine cut on top of the barrel up against the bolt face. Hell!! Ya need a bright flashlight to see if it's loaded.
Much simpler to do a partial slide rack to check for loaded chamber.

Sounds like you don't know so I'll help you out with that one with a couple pics. Very easy to see the bright edge of the rim even in the low loight photo in my kitchen... Much, much easier than drawing the slide especially if someone is all amped up with adrenaline.

No muss - no fuss - no flashlight and no squinting. Very obvious.

...If the hammer is cocked and the safety is on you can bet the chamber is loaded.

Can I? Nope, won't take that bet.


Todd.

 

[The Bushmaster]

ApacheCoTodd...My carry is a Kimber UCC II. It hasn't been unloaded (except for cleaning and inspection) for the last 5 years. I promise you that the chamber is always loaded.

The little cut atop the chamber (as your photo shows) is much smaller and nickle plated cases just don't show.

But not to worry. I only chamber check it in the morning usually coming down from the barn after feeding my horses and usually on my pistol range that is next to the barn.

 

[Shaq]

ants beat me to it. Georg Luger put one on his design.

Without one, the only way to make sure that there is a round in the chamber is to open the action part way. I prefer not having to do that.

No, it isn't. Point the gun and a flashlight at a mirror & move the light until it illuminates the barrel. You'll clearly see the chambered round or an empty chamber.

 

[bannockburn]

An LCI is pretty much a non-issue with me. Liked everything else so much on my Ruger SR9c it really didn't even factor into my decision to get the gun. Have yet to really notice it when I'm using the gun.

 

[SSN Vet]

I have one on my PT-111, I still press check whenever suiting up.

 

[DubbleURX]

No, it isn't. Point the gun and a flashlight at a mirror & move the light until it illuminates the barrel. You'll clearly see the chambered round or an empty chamber.

You can also check the extractor on handguns, if the extractor is externally located.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tallball]

It is scary that lawyers from Massachusetts and California went back in time to force George Luger and Carl Walther to include LCI's in their pistol designs! Doubtless Hillary is somehow to blame.

 

[Zoogster]

I think most are not a big deal.
However, like it or not an extra part that presses against the brass does increase friction and would create slightly less reliability by requiring more force during cycling to extract the cartridge and to overcome the LCI when chambering the next cartridge. That is twice every shot the LCI creates additional force the cycling action must overcome.
Less powerful rounds will be using a higher percentage of their recoil energy and return spring power to overcome the LCI.

It is insignificant enough to matter in many designs, but there nonetheless.


But other mandated requirements I think are much worse, like a magazine disconnect that actually adds moving unnecessary complication to the trigger mechanism and which will wear as it slides against magazines over and over, as well as even be undesirable as a feature.
If I am wearing a pistol and the magazine release gets pressed by accident, I don't want my gun to not work when I pull it out and try to fire defensively because the magazine is not locked into place. I can just see falling or rolling on my gun in a defensive situation, finally getting it out of the holster and then having it not fire even the one round in the chamber because the magazine release was pressed.
I put myself at a disadvantage in the struggle by taking one hand out of what is probably a tough fight to retrieve that gun, and then have the gun not work. I may have given up a more neutral position, and now am being attacked more effectively to retrieve something that doesn't work.

Now if I was a police officer initiating hands on with suspects while open carrying a pistol I may like the option of disabling my gun so easily, or I may not, but I certainly don't think it is a good feature for most. Generally though it seems to be some pathetic attempt to compensate for a lack of understanding that removing the detachable magazine doesn't effect a round in the chamber which most guns should be assumed to have in place.

 

[Old Guy]

#9

The loaded chamber indicator on say, a Glock, is just a little thing on the extractor.
No big deal one way or another.

If I was a Tactical trained Ninja Seal I could see where it could be handy to see if my
gun had a round in the chamber. You know, working in the dark all the time.

Come to think of it, I do set my gun down sometimes. When I pick it up it is convenient
to see that there is a round in the chamber without having to do a chamber check.

__________________
How can you not love a G19?
Steve

If you have ever been around a group of Police Officers, starting a shift? With all the pistol manipulations? Magazine insertions, or slide easing back? To check on that chambered round?

The LCI as described above, the trigger finger can feel the above mentioned LCI, whilst my Glock Gen4, is snug in the holster. And yes, there is always a round chambered, but better to have a LCI, than not.

Old Dog,
Now, if you're whining about front-cocking serrations, I'm with ya ...
Had a South African friend, he was missing a piece of finger, courtesy of front of slide grip to load a Colt 45 at home, he said his hands were sweaty?

 

[Homerboy]

Members of a gun forum do not represent the average gun owner. I would bet that the vast majority of gun owners don't join gun forums. They buy a gun and go on with their life.

But within that small percentage of gun owners who DO join gun forums (and of course I'm a member of that group), there is an even smaller percentage of members who feel that they are invincible pistoleros, and they repeat the same tired old phrases like "my safety is between my ears", and "a safety will get you killed", and "what if I need to fire thst one round while I am doing a tactical reload in the middle of a gunfight?" And so many others. These are people who get insulted if there is ANYTHING between them and pulling a trigger. People have been carrying guns with safeties, may disconnects, and LCI's for decades and somehow they survived.

There's nothing wrong with LCI's. They do nothing to take away from the performance of a weapon. the Ruger .22 one? Anybody carry a Ruger .22 as a defensive pistol? The one on my SR9 is huge. I don't see it as I look down the sights. It may be ugly but the SR9 was never gonna win any beauty contests.

Those who are saved by them don't make the news because nothing happens. The one on my SR9 is actually a selling point for me. And I've been shooting for over 27 years now. Just a little added insurance.

 

[guyfromohio]

The Rugers are a bit much, but I don't mind others. I use mine all the time to make sure I'm chambered and ready to go. Here are two very unobtrusive LCIs. HK on left and PPS on right.

 

[Homerboy]

The ones where the extractor sticks out a bit are kind of useless. My beretta 92 has that and I can barely feel the difference. And the tiny sliver of red isn't very visible either.

 

[I6turbo]

Considering that an awful lot - maybe a majority - of accidental shootings happen with guns that are "unloaded," maybe it's not such a bad thing to have an indicator. Unlike things like mag disconnects, which can mess with the trigger feel, I'm not really aware of a downside to them. Most of my guns don't have them, and that's not a problem IMO, but it doesn't seem like something to get worked up about.

^^ Yes. A well-designed one DOES have utility whether the nay-sayers can understand it or not. I have two guns that have well-designed LCIs (CZ 97 B and 75 D PCR). Even in pitch dark you can instantly and with 100% reliability tell by feel if you have a round in the chamber. You do it silently without any light.

I've had other, less functional ones such as the Beretta 92 and a few others that were only useful in lighted conditions where you can see them clearly. Technically, you could probably tell by feel, but the difference between loaded and empty was too subtle to trust with your life, or even for a dry-fire. Even those less reliable types don't do any harm, but they certainly aren't as useful and fool proof as the type on the CZs.

Here's the CZ LCI on the 97 B. It sticks up enough, and has sharp enough shoulders, that there is no doubt whether there's a cartridge in the chamber, or not. The PCR LCI is positioned on an even flatter surface of the slide.