I found a Good 223 load

[layusn1]

Well, I got to take out all of my 223 loads for a test today. I went figuring the HSM 52gr BTHP Match loads would be the best but I was surprised that they weren't. I loaded the 55gr Win FMJ bulk bullets with 4895 and W748 with 4 different primers for each powder and they all shot like #@&*. I loaded up some Speer 52gr BTHP Match bullets with the W748 and found my load. Its not the greatest, or maybe it is because I'm not the best shot in the world, but I was very happy. I used 27.4 gr of the 748, CCI 425 small rifle magnum primers, the Speer bullets, Federal cases, and an OAL of 2.200. With that powder weight I got a .600 edge to edge group with all of the holes touching or overlapping. I'm not sure if I can tweak that down any or if I just need to load up some more and practice my shooting. I think that will definitely be my load from now on though and as an added bonus, that 748 looks like it will run through a powder dispenser on a progressive like water. Now, what do I do with 900 55gr Win FMJs?

 

[mc223]

Getting there is half the fun.

Not to say you will, but I have blown primers with 748 in hot weather.
I loaded some bulk 55s with V-V N-140 once. Havent messed with them for quite a while. They shot about the same as your load above. I moved on to heavier bullets. The 60g V-Max with around 26g Varget is a good one. Would need to be tuned to your rifle.

 

[billp]

temperature sensitivity

I am super-sensitive about temperature and reloads because I had my worst reloading experience in pullman, wa loading in the winter and firing in the spring.

I'm very concerned in abq, nm where winter/summer temperature differences are more extreme.

P-dog hunters from Illinois and Wisconsin in Motel in Newcastle WY june 2006 showed me some cases which had the head mostly blown away.

My guess is that they tested their loads during winter and used them on p-dogs in june?

Anyone have a plot of temperature, gr charge, case volume, [other variables?] vs pressure for varget?

regards

 

[Walkalong]

Speer 52gr BTHP Match bullets

Congrats on a good load. The 55 FMJ is going to shoot only so well and is best for cheap blasing ammo. The better bullets is where the accuracy lies.

My .222 Mag (.223 before there was a .223) loves Hornady 50 & 55 Gr. soft points ( # 2245 & #2265 ). It will shoot them, as well as the Hornady 53 Gr. Match HP's (#2250), into one hole at 100 yards. It is a Sako heavy barrel varmint gun with a light trigger. I burned up a box of 1000 primers working up some proven loads for it.

It also likes the Sierra 53 Gr. HP (#1400) and the Sierra 60 Gr HP9#1375)
You have to push the 60 Grainer pretty hard to get it to stabilize in this gun.

It also has a taste for the Speer 50 Gr. TNT

 

[wcwhitey]

+1 for the Sierra 53 gr HP. I use them with the same load (27.4) of 748. My primer of choice is WSR. I found that the Win 55 Gr. Bulk, WSR and 748 will give a nice shooting round but not as good as the premier bullets. Some accuracy will be lost but it is as good as any commercial or surplus out there. It's a nice feeling when a load comes together. Now you just have to shop for bulk to keep the price down. LOL, Congrats, Bill

 

[layusn1]

Thanks for the temp warnings. I usually only load what I am going to shot for that weekend but maybe the date field on the load stickers could record the month/temp when you loaded them as well just to be extra sure.

 

[billp]

a bit complicated?

I usually only load what I am going to shot for that weekend but maybe the date field on the load stickers could record the month/temp when you loaded them as well just to be extra sure.​

Having shells one can only use on the month/temp loaded sounds a bit complicated?

Maybe load shells to accomodate the warmest month might be a good idea? And if varget claims are correct, this should not be much different?

That's the reason for asking about plot of temperature, bullet size, gr load, cartridge [other variables] to calculate pressure?

What's your rethought opinion?

 

[layusn1]

Hmm, I havent really given it that much thought. Im not all that knowledgeable and as evidenced by my target I am by no means a benchrest shooter. Thats putting a LOT of thought into EVERY minor detail and I think once youve gone that far you kind of take the fun out of it all. Its like saying I cant shoot today because there is a 3 mile an hour crosswind.

We say this guy at the range today, he took 20 minutes to set up a series of little windmills with streamers between him and his target, setting up a chrono, and pulling out a benchrest that had his rifle so locked down that he wasnt shooting, he was just pulling the trigger. He pulled out a bolt rifle with what looked like a 50 cal. muzzlebreak and a scope that looked more like my first telescope. He sets everything up to his liking and puts a bullet in the rifle and fires...imagine my surprise when I hear the little puff of a 22lr round. I mean honestly, if your going into that much detail and setup I would expect that you are using a large caliber centerfire rifle, not a 22lr. The guy was like a serious butt to everyone else at the range and expected everyone to shoot on HIS schedule. Thats not shooting in my book, that is operating a mounted firearm Seriously though, I just want to have fun putting lead down range in a reasonably accurate manner and have fun doing it. To each his own but thats not my cup of tea. Maybe it was fun for him, who knows.
P.S. I dont mean to insult any of those guys out there that might be like this guy. I just thought it was a bit much, especially for a 22lr.

 

[Hutch]

Now, what do I do with 900 55gr Win FMJs?

Sell them to meeeee....

 

[billp]

I am by no means a benchrest shooter.

At concealed to carry class I learned that maybe its not the best idea to try to put bullets in the same spot.

Try shots two to the chest. Doesn't stop action. Body armor?

Then two shots to the groin. Doesn't stop action? Kevlar shorts?

Then try two shots between the eyes? If you live that long.

 

[layusn1]

How about 2 shot through the body armor with my CZ52?

 

[mc223]

billp and All, here is a link to some temp data from Hodgdon.

There is no comparison for 223, But the 308 operates at around the same pressures , and maybe in some cases a lot lower. Check out what happens at low temps also.

http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page3.php#308win

 

[jeepmor]

a benchrest that had his rifle so locked down that he wasnt shooting, he was just pulling the trigger.

I'd like to do something like this to test handloads and really zero my scope within 1/4" of dead nuts on. Beyond that, nah, I like to see how small of groups "I" can shoot if you know what I mean. If I get within 1" of dead center, I'm good. If they are consistent in regards to smaller grouping near the bullseye, then I'll adjust that last inch to the center. If they wander, I attribute it to my caffeine level and quit before I make things worse by adjusting it.

Neat to find an accurate load though isn't it?

jeepmor

 

[layusn1]

I agree that it would be worth it to really zero in the scope but thats about it. This guy was shooting at sheets of paper with 100 quarter sized targets one by one though...not sighting in.

Yes, it makes everything worthwhile when a load groups. Now I will have to sight in the rifle to that load. More shooting...yea!

 

[billp]

billp and All, here is a link to some temp data from Hodgdon.

Thanks. I haven't read yet.

Here's bullet seating progress for 55 gr v-max and ss109 bullets in stevens 200.

I'm using 1967 instructions





http://www.prosefights.org/funpics/thr/bulletseating/rcbsmanual2.jpg

using my 1967 rock chucker press

http://www.prosefights.org/funpics/thr/bulletseating/rockerchucker.jpg

all bought at the white elephant in spokane wa.

Here's what I've come up with

.223 neck from nominal data in about 1982 speer reloading manual is about .203 inches.

I screwed the seating die to the top of the shell holder.

I back out on turn

Mike in albuquerque had a .30-06 detonate in a seater die!!!​

Then I unscrewed the seating screw.

I ran a resized shell [found at abq shooting range] with no primer + 55 gr v-max into the resizer.

I then screwed down the seating screw 3 turns which should be about .107 inches.

I then removed the 55 gr v-max. And screwed the seating screw 3 turns.

I then seated the 55 gr v-max.

Look at bit long but I tried it in the stevens 200. No land mark on bullet.

But it didn't go through the action smooth.

Increased seating to 4 turns.

Worked great though action.

I then seated the ss109 to 4 turns. No land marks but it didn't go through action smoothly. Scratch you see is from my knife removing the ss109 round.

Increased seating to 5 turns.

Works great through action.

Temperature about 60 today in abq.

63 F predicted tomorrow.

Measured bullet weights on 1967 redding bar scale. Two 55 gr v-max measured 55 gr. Two ss109 measured 62.1 gr.

Both hornaday and ss109 measured .2235 inches in diameter.

I am very interested to read temp data on varget. After dinner, of course.

regards

 

[billp]

i'll try to fix bad jpg lines



bullets compared to 68 gr black hills load.




Note overall length of 55 gr v-max to ss109 are about the same to work smoothly trough action of stevens 200.

regards

 

[redneck2]

If you want to find the most accurate loads, you need to eliminate variables

The benchrest shooter was probably trying to eliminate human error. Your thing of "I want to see how well I shoot" introduces that human error. Once you find a load that shoots perfectly, they you can try it to see what part of the equation you are.

In any event, by far the most important part of rifle (not shooter) accuracy is the bullet itself. If I had to shoot teeny, tiny groups and had a choice of picking either the bullet or the case, powder, and primer I'd pick bullet.

Forty years ago, a 1" group was almost unheard of. Now it's commonplace. We still have basically the same powders and primers. I can't believe cases or primers have changed that much, but bullet manufacturing has.

 

[billp]

I'd pick bullet.

Let's see how the hornaday 55 gr v-max does. For a senior citizen, of course.

Our son loads hornaday .270 sst ammo, in our 1967 rock chucker press.




He says it's the most accurate ammo he has loaded.

He reported the sst really did the number on a texas deer this fall.

 

[Walkalong]

We say this guy at the range today, he took 20 minutes to set up a series of little windmills with streamers between him and his target

You can not be competetive in BR50 or Benchrest if you can't read the wind. It opens up a whole new world.

 

[billp]

pick bullet and technology

Bullet technology increase is pretty impressive.

But so is caliper technology [for about $20 at Harbor Freight] compared to Sears 1960s technology which cost a lot more money then.



Let's hope powder technology, with varget is increasing too.







Total length of ss109 .223 shells measured 2.349 inches. On the v-max 55 gr, 2.396 inches.

Note that the ss109 wouldn't feed correctly stevens 200 with 4 turns. But with 5 turns [1/28 inch per turn] all was okay.

And, OF COURSE, greatest technology advance is with Internet and WHAT IS BEING POSTED WITH THE NEAT SOFTWARE!!!

 

[billp]

WHOOPS again

2.394 on ss109. One turn from 4 to 5 at 1/28 inch made THE difference.
and
2.396 on 55 gr v-max

Seniors can become confused easily.