I have a lot of love for my new S&W revolver - but is it defective?

[miss lead]

UPDATED W/ PICS I have a lot of love for my new S&W revolver - but is it defective?

My revolver arrived yesterday - S&W model 60-4 (as soon as I get pics, I'll post them). It is sweeter than honey. But ... there is something with the cylinder that I'm not sure about. None of the other revolvers I shot recently did this, so I'm wondering if this one has a defect.

If I put pressure backwards on the cylinder when releasing it, it will lock in place (won't spin) once it's all the way open. If I put pressure towards the front when I open it, it spins just fine when it's all the way open.

The gentleman at the gun shop said he'd never seen a gun do that before, but he thought it might have something to do with the former owner having used a speed loader with the gun and had it set up that way on purpose. (I did not purchase the gun at this shop; I got it on the internets.)

It seems to me there's more play (from front to back) in the cylinder than there should be when it's open (it's tight when it's closed). But again, I'm not sure what is normal. Also, the ratchet bumps the - is it the cylinder guard - as the cylinder is going back in.

Is any of this normal? Do I need to take a trip to a gunsmith?

Second question has to do with grips - are new J frame grips different from older ones, like the 60-4 has? I want to get a new set but not sure if I need to be looking for "older" ones. Or are they all the same?

Thanks for your help.

Here are some shots of the stud - in case this helps tell the story:

 

[springfield30-06]

About the grips... There is a difference between square and round butt grips. Here is a comparison between the two:

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

You may wish to have a smith take a look at it just to be safe. I have never encountered the problem you are describing. As far as I know the grips will fit most J frame guns unless you have a round butt gun rather than a square one.

 

[loneviking]

Take and have it checked. I bought a Model 65 with similar problems with the cylinder release not working right;the cylinder locking up and refusing to turn and problems with the pawl. Turns out someone had been 'flipping' the cylinder closed and had damaged several of the internal parts that lock the cylinder in place. The idiot who did this had also been fanning the gun and had damaged more parts. It was a fine little gun once it was fixed.

I just don't understand the stupidity of some people in the way they handle revolvers. I've bought several used ones over the last few years and all but one had to be fixed by a gunsmith for damage caused by improper handling or use of the gun.

 

[Guillermo]

Miss Lead,

Most of us need a good gunsmith.

That is your next search. They are few and far between

 

[miss lead]

Thanks. I'll see what gunsmiths I can find in my area. It's a bit disappointing that the gun potentially has a problem, but maybe I was expecting too much. I probably didn't ask the right questions before purchasing it.

It's got a round butt.

I was looking at Esmeralda's grips but the screw hole didn't seem to be in the same place as mine is, unless her grips are that much bigger and the size difference is throwing me off.

 

[MrBorland]

If I put pressure backwards on the cylinder when releasing it, it will lock in place (won't spin) once it's all the way open. If I put pressure towards the front when I open it, it spins just fine when it's all the way open.

Do you mean literally "lock", or that there's just significant resistance when you try to spin the open cylinder while applying back pressure? If the latter, it's perfectly normal.

There's a small tab on the frame that's meant to contact the back of the cylinder when open to keep it from sliding off the crane. If you were to unscrew the crane screw (on the other side of the frame, near the front of the cylinder), you'd be then able to slide the entire crane/cylinder assembly free of the gun. Furthermore, once free, the cylinder simply slides backward off the crane (and onto the floor :banghead. The tab on the frame therefore prevents the open cylinder from falling off the gun when the gun is completely assembled, and does so by contacting the cylinder when pushed back.

 

[Guillermo]

the way I read it, if she manipulates the cylinder backwards before she swings it out, even when open the cylinder will not spin.

It is obviously binding on the crane when pushed backwards.

(unless I did not understand exactly what is happening)

 

[miss lead]

Do you mean literally "lock", or that there's just significant resistance

It locks tight.

the way I read it, if she manipulates the cylinder backwards before she swings it out, even when open the cylinder will not spin. ... unless I did not understand exactly what is happening

That is correct. It's like if I move the cylinder backwards (there's not a lot of movement, but even a tiny bit), I can swing it out and it locks in place when it's open. If I move the cylinder towards the front and swing it out, it spins freely when it's open.

 

[rmfnla]

Sounds like you are pushing the cylinder against the retaining lug on the frame (which is there to keep the cylinder from sliding off the crane when it is open).

If this is the case just don't do it and you will be fine.

 

[duns]

What is its functionality when shooting?

 

[miss lead]

I just picked it up last night and haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. Plus, I thought perhaps I should have someone knowledgeable look at it before I actually put live rounds in it.

 

[Owen]

miss lead, have you seen the revolver check-out thread?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430

 

[Triggernosis]

Miss Lead,
Congrats on the new 60-4. BTW, where did you find it and how much did it cost (PM me if you wish)?

If you want some replacement grips that won't break the bank, check out Grand Blue Grips.

Also, since you're now an official owner of a quality S&W handgun, please visit and join the S&W forum here:http://smith-wessonforum.com/
Ask your question there and you'll be sure to get a straight answer.

 

[Guillermo]

send Old Fuff a pm.

He fixed one of my revolvers with by way of telekineses. Unfortunately I got him mad and he broke one of my revolvers by the same method. (Mess with Old Fuff at your own peril)

Seriously, he is one of the folks of the THR that can probably diagnosis

 

[Ala Dan]

Here is a pic of my Smith & Wesson model 60-4 .38 Special.

*FootNote: I'm not sure what kind'a grips are on this weapon;
as they were on the gun, when we purchased a large collection
out of Chicago a couple of years back.

 

[BullfrogKen]

The factory will repair it for a reasonable fee, if it needs repaired. If you bring it to an FFL, they can ship directly to the factory using the US Post Office (you may not) and save you the higher Fed Ex overnight fee.


The location of the grip screw is not as important and getting the correct era, round butt grips.

 

[Jim K]

I don't know about Old Fuff and telekinesis, but I think I know what is wrong with that gun and it is not good news. There is a little stud set into the frame that keeps the cylinder from coming off the crane backwards when the cylinder is open. Normally, only the front of that stud touches the cylinder. But because the stud has to miss the cartridge rims, there is not a lot of engagement.

So if the stud is worn down, or if there is any play in the cylinder, it can partly miss the stud and wedge up against the stud, keeping the cylinder from turning and giving the condition described.

So here is the bad news. That stud is either a permanent assembly into the frame or (on new guns) a part of the frame. Whether it is worn down, or polished down in refinishing the gun (a common cause of the problem), or the cylinder is loose on the crane, it is a job for the factory. Period. Not DIY, not a gunsmith.

Can you get a full refund? The gun is certainly defective and you will have to pay to have it fixed. If the seller refuses to take the gun back and refund your money, including shipping, there is not a lot you can do unless you want to pay out thousands for attorney's fees and court costs to sue. (Welcome to the world of Internet sales!)

If you can't get a refund or decide to keep the gun anyway, call S&W and describe the problem and tell them you want them to fix it. I doubt they will do so free or under warranty unless (unlikely) the problem was there when the gun was shipped. They may provide a shipping label or your local shop may be willing to mail the gun at less cost than using a common carrier.

Now, let's discuss the false economy involved in buying guns on the internet.

Jim

 

[miss lead]

Something tells me you're right, Jim. There's this odd wedging problem, only when the cylinder is in a particular spot.

I don't think there's a problem sending the gun back - the seller has a refund policy and has been a nice guy to deal with. I'm out the FFL fees and shipping, of course. But the bad part is that other than this problem the gun is in beautiful shape (I had a gun friend look at it today and he said it was excellent otherwise) and even worse is I got attached to it since yesterday.

If the repair weren't going to be really costly, I wouldn't mind paying a few bucks to get it fixed because I got the gun at a decent price. But if it's going to cost an arm and a leg then I'll have to send it back.

Is a factory repair automatically really expensive?

I am trying not to get bummed about this.

 

[ozmosis]

There is a chance that there is nothing wrong, call S&W repair and ask to talk to a tech. You could send it in to S&W for a go over and see what they say. Who ever took you shooting should look at it, then go from there.

 

[Triggernosis]

There is a chance that there is nothing wrong, call S&W repair and ask to talk to a tech.

That's excellent advice. Also, if S&W says that it probably needs to be repaired, ask the seller if he'd be willing to pay for the cost of repair rather than returning the gun to him. Since he's been pleasant to deal with so far, and he almost certainly didn't know anything may be wrong with it, he'll probably be willing to pay for the repair.
BTW, S&W will likely send you a pre-paid shipping label and you can mail it back to them yourself at no cost to you.

Please keep us advised.

 

[woad_yurt]

How does it cycle when you dry fire it?

 

[Confederate]

I just don't understand the stupidity of some people in the way they handle revolvers. I've bought several used ones over the last few years and all but one had to be fixed by a gunsmith for damage caused by improper handling or use of the gun.

I don't doubt it, but could you give some examples?

What the OP describes sounds like a manufacturer's glitch, or defect. Without seeing the gun, I don't know what the problem is, but it sounds like it affects the operational integrity of the gun. In that case the user has to determine whether the gun can be operated reliably as is. If not, then he needs to contact the seller and renegotiate.

 

[gbw]

You made a great choice, it's a shame about the stud.

Mr. Keenan is almost certainly right. Just one opinion, I'd return the gun immediately if you have the option, and find another. Or have Smith&Wesson repair it. There is no satisfactory third option.

(If you keep it, also consider having S&W replace the wide trigger with a standard width - much easier for DA shooting with the small gun.)

I'd guess someone, who did not know what they were doing, took a file to the stud, which makes the whole gun suspect. Heaven knows what else they filed.

One of my 60s (actually a 60-4!) had a related problem; cartridge rims wedged against the second step of the stud. It got past S&W QC - easily possible since it occurred only if the rims were positioned just so when the cylinder was opened or closed. Very light filing to correct and easy to do.

But just a bit too much filing and the stud function is kaput, I'd speculate this could have happened to yours. There is very little space between the cartridge rim edge and the cylinder edge.

If Mr. Keenan is correct, the seller is incompetent, but we hope honest.

Send it back and keep looking. There's another one out there. It's a shame the internet is such a sorry place to try to buy anything, but if you're looking for a specific model sometimes there just isn't any choice. Always insist on an inspection/return option.

 

[miss lead]

Does anybody have a really good diagram or photo of a revolver with all the parts called out? I've found several diagrams online but they don't show all of the parts (such as the stud) on the exterior of the gun. I want to be able to speak to someone about the problem I'm having, but it's important that I use the correct terminology so I don't sound like an idiot.

I am pretty sure I know what the stud is but I want to confirm it and if I could actually see it, that would be helpful. The other part name I'm not certain of is the back end of the ejector rod - the little piece that protrudes the furthest back, like out of the center of the ratchet - does that little piece have a name?