S&W 586 no dash: Question for revolver experts out there

[easyrider604]

My 586's cylinder is stuck.....like it doesn't want to open (to load ammo).

Everything else functions properly but the cylinder release. It hasn't been returned to S&W for the no dash and dash one factory mods.

From what I can see, the cylinder pin at the rear, in the center of the extractor star, releases. But the front pin is not pushed out enough when I push forward on the cylinder latch/release. So the extractor rod is still locked in front, while the rear of the cylinder can move.

The cylinder has always been a little reluctant to open, requiring a little pressure to open, but now, no reasonable amount of pressure can get the front to budge. Good thing this didn't happen at the range with live ammo.

Is this an easy fix?

 

[highorder]

I bet the ejector rod is simply unscrewed...

I'm not sure how to address it if you CAN'T get the cylinder open.

 

[hiram2005]

2 things you might try.

#1 Small (very small) screwdriver. insert into the end of the ejector rod and push towards the front of the gun to depress the plunger holding the ejector in place.

#2 Wedge the tip of said screwdriver into the ejctor shroud to put pressure on the rod,(to keep it from turning, pull back the hammer slightly so the cylinder will turn, turn and hold ejector, this may tighten it enuf to open.


Try #1 first.

 

[Ron James]

It do sound as if the ejector rod is loose,

 

[hiram2005]

Right. What I said should open it, then it can be tightened up. I've had this happen a few times.

 

[easyrider604]

Thank you for your quick response, gentlemen. I'll try your fixes later tonight.

 

[easyrider604]

#1 Small (very small) screwdriver. insert into the end of the ejector rod and push towards the front of the gun to depress the plunger holding the ejector in place.

OK I was able to open the cylinder using hiram2005's procedure. Worked like a charm.

Next I tightened the ejector rod and tried to close and open the cylinder.

I then opened and closed the cylinder several times, with the cylinder rotating as I closed it. A different chamber was aligned with the barrel each time, and there were positions when the cylinder was tight, requiring higher than normal force to open. On my other L frames, there was never an issue with opening the cylinder (all of my 686's is and were -3s)

I do not want to loc-tite the threads until the cylinder releases uniformly easy and smoothly regardless of which chamber is aligned with the barrel.

What is wrong?

 

[rswartsell]

Hmmm, not sure. but it seems that you are introducing a new situation. S&W revolvers have always been somewhat prone to the ejector rod backing out so many of us S&W mavens do the blue loc-tite as a matter of course in the normal long term operation of these weapons especially if you use pretty hot ammunition (higher recoil speeds the backing out of the ejector rod), It's not a big deal, just an idiosyncrasy of a fine weapon.

If however you see that without engaging the lockwork at all, you have uneven resistance to the swing out of the cylinder I am first thinking that the bearing that should insure that the cylinder spins true has been unevenly worn or damaged by using a wrist flip to cowboy the cylinder closed.

An experienced gunsmith (which I am not) should give you a better idea of the problem, but I do believe that while the original lock up was not an indication of a real problem (just S&W ejector rod back out), this is and should have attention.

Perhaps someone here might give you a better solution but it seems to me a trip to a smith (or better back to S&W) might be in order.

 

[Oro]

Sometimes these loosen to the point they will immediately back out again without securing them. Did you check the rod again that it had not immediately backed out?

I also think that for some reason the 1990-ish 686-3's and -4's are heavily prone to this. I've seen it a few times on other's guns and I also had a 2.5" 686-4 that went through this same thing. The ejector rod would not stay put on it's own for less than two cycles of the action unless it was loc-tited in place.

When you loc-tite it, degrease the threads on both ends. Apply the loc-tite and when tightening it, wrap a piece of glove leather over the knurled rod-end to get a good grip and tighten firmly. Do not apply enough force to tweak the rod - 10lbs or less of torque is sufficient. Let the loc-tite set up sufficiently before testing. Lube the locking bolt in the front lug so it moves very freely - this will reduce friction on the ejector rod as it turns. These sometimes bind with goo and dried lube over the years.

You may have another issue, but 97 times out of 100 this is it, and there's likely little other explanation if it started suddenly and you did not previously drop the gun or otherwise impact the cylinder such that you might have tweaked the yoke.

 

[OldCavSoldier]

All the above guys have some really good points. If you continue to have problems, my two cents is to send it back to S&W with a note telling them both the problem and what you did to correct it. I'll bet that the only cost to you will be in shipping/insurance. These days, S&W is ONE OF THE BEST companies to work with.

 

[Jubjub]

Send it in for the recall. They will fix anything else at the same time.

 

[easyrider604]

Thank for the replies gentlemen. I'll try the loctite trick and lube the front locking bolt as well.

Another question: what is the difference between the blue loctite and regular? I do have the blue one. How much blue loctite, should I put? Ok that was 2 questions

This problem never occurred with the 3 686-3s I had, two of which were shot a few thousand rounds each. The remaining -3 I have has about a thousand through it with no issues at all.

If this fix fails, off she goes to S&W.

 

[Oro]

Blue loctite can be broken with torque. Red Loctite requires heat to break, so you don't want to use it in places you need to open regularly or where you don't want to apply a torch - like your gun. Use the blue.

Send it in for the recall. They will fix anything else at the same time.

The last I heard (a year or two ago) was that they weren't just doing the blanket modification for those guns anymore (it was overkill to begin with, so I don't see a problem with that). They do it on a case-by-case basis if the guns are seizing at the firing pin during strings of fire. Again, this is second hand information. Someone else may know better.

 

[Jim K]

There are other possible problems. A cylinder can bind if the crane or the cylinder arbor is bent. Also, if the cylinder is binding at certain points, the cylinder itself may not be machined correctly*. Those are not common conditions, but have been known. While a good gunsmith can correct those problems, it is better to send the revolver back to S&W as the cylinder machining at least is clearly a manufacturing defect.

*With the gun unloaded and the cylinder closed, hold the gun up so a light source shows through the barrel-cylinder gap and rotate the cylinder. If the gap varies as the cylinder turns, either the cylinder is not right or the cylinder arbor/crane is bent.

Jim

 

[David E]

First, degrease the ejector rod/extractor threads.

Second, I use a very small amount of nail polish instead of Loc-Tite. Just enough to fill 1/8th" of the thread "valleys" even with the top of the thread "peaks." If you use too much, it'll leak out into areas you don't want it, causing ejection problems.

Your other problem of binding is probably caused by unburnt powder or build up of same under the extractor star and/or on the back of the cylinder where the extractor star seats. Simply brush these areas clean.

Both are common problems with easy fixes.

 

[Rio Laxas]

I had something similar happen with a 586 no dash. I thought the ejector rod might be loose or bent, but that was not the problem. The center pin had to be replaced because the face of the pin was not flat where it engaged the parts in the lug. The result was that it opened easily on some chambers, but not others. I ordered a new one from Numrich and had no further problems.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrProductSKU=305460&CatID=10075&mySort=2

I would check the face of your center pin and see if it is flat when compared to the end of the ejector rod and see if that is possibly the problem.

 

[SWAddict]

I have a 586 No Dash that also had the same problem.

Firstly, like the above posts have stated, make sure that the ejector rod assembly is screwed into the cylinder snugly and use some locktite on the threads.

Secondly, make sure that the screw which holds yoke in the frame is tight. If it is not, this can allow the yoke to move forward just enough to make it difficult to open the cylinder. If the screw is tight and the yoke has some front to back play then the screw has some wear. A good and easy fix is to try swapping that screw with the screw from above the trigger. The screws are the same and the screw above the trigger won't have any wear on it.

Finally, if the above are not the problem, it could be that the machining on the front of the ejector rod is a bit rough. On my 586, the cylinder would only be difficult to open on 2 cylinders but not the rest. After further examination, I noticed that the front of the ejector rod was not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the rod. So the higher side was not able to clear the detent in the barrel when trying to open the cylinder. I used an India stone to polish and true up the flat portion on the front of the ejector rod and that solved the problem. I also had the same problem on a 625 3" Model of 1989 and the front of the ejector rod not being true was the problem. Used the India stone there also (after checking everything else) and it fixed the problem.

Good luck.

 

[texas bulldog]

frankly, if it happens again, my recommendation would be to simply send it to S&W. they will make it right. but then, i am by no means a "revolver expert". i was interested simply because i also have a 586 no dash.

 

[easyrider604]

Thanks again for the replies, gentlemen. Really appreciate your ideas and help.

I'm experiencing the same symptoms as Swaddict and almostfree....My cylinder is hard to swing out on 2 out of six possible cylinder positions.

The tip of the extractor rod seems to be perpendicular to my naked eye and without any gauges to measure angle.

I'll try stoning it. Will report the result later.

 

[easyrider604]

Stoning worked.

Much thanks for all your help, gentlemen.

 

[mouser]

My cylinder became hard to open on the third box of shells and ended up locked closed. The ejector rod had backed out. This forum helped me figure it out. One other item to note is that it has a left hand thread.