I just acquired a strange little handgun.

[davek]

What do you think?



My wife's mother's foster-dad gave me this little revolver. I'm not really sure about it, but I didn't want to be rude, so I thanked him and accepted it graciously.

First, it's old. The heel of the grip shows a lot of what I can only imagine is Overall Pocket Wear, and there' a little pitting on the frame behind the cylinder. Other than that, it seems to be a pretty well put together gun. The bore has some gunk in it, but doesn't look coroded or pitted, but I'll know better when I clean it.

On the grips it has a stylized "F&W". So right off the bat, I'm reminded of those "Ray-Fan" sun glasses I bought off of a cab driver's brother-in-law in Cairo, Egypt some years ago.

Along the top of that freaky sight rib thing, it says, "Foremand Arms Co Worchester Mass U.S.A." and then says "Pat'd Dec.1.86 & Jan.11.87". One thing that's conspicuously missing is what caliber it is. I can't find it anywhere. It looks a lot like a .32, but I'm gonna get that checked out.

...and it's got this silly little rear sight. check it out...



That's it. That's the whole thing. It's barely wider than the front sight.

Finally, there seem to be serial numbers on both the frame and the cylinder...and they don't even match.

So what do you think? I soooo want to get this thing cleaned up and take it to the range once I figure out what it shoots. What is this gun? Who is Foremand Arms? Will it asplode first time I pull the trigger?

 

[Shear_stress]

F&W = "Forehand & Wadworth".

 

[Jim March]

Whoo boy.

Is it rimfire or centerfire? Might be one of the last of the rimfires. If not it's likely a 32S&W...but you need to do two things before shooting that old pup:

1) Confirm whether this is a "black powder only" gun or was made in the early smokeless era. Trust me, it matters, esp. in breaktops. You can still find 32S&W ammo brand new, but it's smokeless. Somewhere I read that some of the smaller "cowboy match ammo houses" were rolling up black powder 32S&W rounds but I could be wrong.

2) With old breaktops like this, the "revolver checkout" will give you a starting point as to the gun's condition but I would really recommend a professional gunsmith examine it before you shoot it. Breaktops are not really very strong, m'kay? Esp. if I was going to run smokeless ammo in it, I'd be REAL wary.

Oh yeah, it might NOT be a 32S&W. If you're real unlucky it's meant for a heeled bullet...like the old 32Colt(?) or something...I'm hazy on pocket pistol calibers of the late 1800s/early 1900s, it's not my "thing".

 

[Strings]

Looks VERY similar to my H&R in .32 S&W. And DEFINATELY check out the timing: mine hasn't been fired because it doesn't lock up anywhere close to "tight"...

 

[Jim March]

Let me try and nutshell this for ya.

Nothing makes us mutter "Oh God, I hope he doesn't blow his hand off" like an antique breaktop of dubious origins when it was NEW.

'Kay?

 

[Strings]

Which is a LARGE part of the reason I haven't played with mine all that much. Should I ever use it, it'll probably be with down-powered BP loads (using it in cowboy side matches)...

 

[Steve C]

Nothing makes us mutter "Oh God, I hope he doesn't blow his hand off" like an antique breaktop of dubious origins when it was NEW.

May be one of the reasons they're known as SUICIDE SPECIALS.

There where a bunch of companies making these little break top pocket pistols from around 1890 to 1910. They where the RG's or Hi-points of their era. A cheap pistol of dubious quality. The term suicide special came from the common occurance of their use in suicides. While not particularily valuable they're a piece of memorabelia from the turn of the previous century and make an inexpensive wall hanger or curio.

 

[rich e]

I have also inherited a wall hanger revolver from my mother in law...Since I have other modern quality handguns I don't really have the desire to lose a finger or an eye..........Years and years ago I bought an old H&R top brake 38 S&W that looked similiar to yours...It was in rough shape and it was cheap......I put on safety glasses and goggles,,heavy welding gloves,,a motorcycle helmit and a couple of coats..Should have taken a picture...LOADED HER UP AND LET HER RIP......Click,click,bang,click, bang...I had a target 5 feet in front of me and did'nt even hit it...It took 15 minutes to shoot 1/2 box of 38 S&W...More clicks than bangs that day....My buddy who was there with me ended up giving me what I paid for it because I did'nt want it...The pistol was $20 bucks and the box of ammo was $15.....

 

[Novus Collectus]

Lol. I fired my .38 S&W firing Iver Johnson hammerless the first time at an apple I set up about fifteen feet away. I missed so I went to ten feet. I missed again so I went to five feet.....I missed. I think I finally hit it at two feet.

I figure it still has a use though. It would probably make a good starting pistol.
But I still love those top breaks. Especially the hammerless ones.

 

[Jackal]

I say to anyone: If you must have a top break, buy a new Navy Arms Shofield top break or a Webley/Enfield revolver.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Why stop at one? I'd love to have a Webley and a Schoefield as well. I'd probably use the Webley as a shooter because I'd heard they are nice shooters.

 

[Strings]

umm, since I have a Webly, I have to agree with what you've heard. Chambered in .38 S&W, it's now my preferance for "next step up from .22" with new shooters...

 

[Ron James]

Wow, You gentlemen who don't know what a Forehand and Wadsworth is need to get out in the sun more I just wish someone would give me a hundred year old piece of firearm history. The company dates back to the Civil War but didn't start operating under the name Forehand and Wadsworth until 1871. It was brought by Hopkins and Allen in 1902. Your " Pocket Revolver" dates from 1888 to 1898. In good condition I've seen them go for 400 to 500 dollars. Their army model gos for 3 to 4 thousand dollars. While not a really high dollar item they were considered a well made fire arm at the time. Sights are not very good because they were considered a pocket or belly gun to be used at close range. They were never designed to be shot at paper targets. They did make a so called saturday night special, the Swamp Angel. Made in both 32 and 38 centerfire, they are most diffidently black power firearms. Don't even think about shooting modern cartridges in them. That's the nut shell version of F&W. BTW, the term suicide special doesn't mean a gun that will blow up in your face, the term means what it says. If your going to commit suicide, then you don't want to waste your money on a high dollar gun, after all, you're only going to use it once.

 

[gopguy]

I used to have a Forehand and Wadsworth .22 short revolver with the hammer mounted to the side of the frame. Sort of reminded me of the way a Colt Root revolver looked.

I don't advise shooting that. Parts would be too hard to come by if something breaks....and frankly it is not worth fixing if something does break. Neat but not valuable.

 

[DonP]

Hopkins & Allen?

That looks an awful lot like the "Hopkins & Allen Forehand Model 1901", break top in .38 special my Dad asked me to clean up and check out for him. The serial number is on the bottom of the grip. I've got it sitting in by car right now in fact.

Holds 5 rounds and has an auto extractor, like an old S&W, that pops the empty rounds out. I think they made them in .32 as well. They bought the Forehand and Wadsworth company around 1904 I think and consolidated their models, hence the "Forehand Model" designation.

He's had the pistol for over 50 years. Bought it from a friend back in 1953 when we first moved out into, what was then, the boonies. We haven't shot it in about 20 years, since he got a Ruger semi-auto.

I'm cleaning it up for him and digging out as much information on them as I can. H&A went out of business way back when, I'm not sure exactly when yet. Just started to do some research.

 

[ATAShooter]

It is a dangerous gun.... please send it to me for proper keeping, uh hum,... I mean for proper disposal....

 

[Jim K]

Today, those little guns are scorned, partly because of the similar junk that was made at the time and since. But in that period, companies like Forehand & Wadsworth, Iver Johnson, and Harrington and Richardson made top quality guns, mostly better made than anything on the market today. The guns generally recognized as the best made were not by Colt or S&W, but by Merwin, Hulbert & Co., whose designs and manufacturing were top quality. Of course, the guns were built with the technology of the day, which depended heavily on leaf springs and the use of highly skilled labor.

As for "suicide specials", so-called because they were supposedly good for only one shot, most were actually of fair quality. Even Colt made its own versions, the so-called New Line revolvers. Of all the companies, the only one remaining that never compromised quality was S&W; their revolvers often compared unfavorably with others in power, but their workmanship was never anything but top drawer.

But H&R, I.J. and the others failed for economic reasons, brought on in part due to the bans on concealed carry enacted in the 1920's "gangster era." Further, they never were able to accumulate the capital necessary to upgrade their designs to meet foreign and domestic competition.

Jim

 

[Cosmoline]

There's nothing wrong or per se dangerous about these break top five shots. They have a bad rep now because people have had experiences with substandard knockoffs or old ones so beat up they fall apart in the hand. But there's a reason they were so popular. They were simple, sturdy and above all easy to pocket. In fact, they were the original modern CCW handguns and were VERY popular here and in Europe before the governments started cracking down on carrying. The reason they're still affordable today is because so many were made. If you went back to 1900, you'd see many more of these being used in the US than Single Action Armies and big framed cowboy revolvers.

That looks an awful lot like the "Hopkins & Allen Forehand Model 1901", break top in .38 special

.38 SPECIAL? Whoa there! I know of no break tops in .38 SPECIAL. They were, however, frequently chambered for .38 S&W. Along with .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and similar old classics. Make sure you use what it's chambered for.