skidooman603
Member
Flip side of that is if you can shoot open sights well the optics shooting is a breeze 
I just can't shoot at 100yds
- Thread starter kd7nqb
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jcwit
member
Are you flinching? The Mosin because of stock design kicks like a mule, and may not be helping you at all.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Caliper_Mi
Member
What? A MN without a bayonet? If you really want one without, sell the M44 and get a M38 or M91/30 (Dunhams in my area has them). There are plenty of other wierdos like myself that want the pointy bits on surplus rifles.
I haven't had a problem with bayonets on my Mosins though. The 91/30 will shift POI between bayo/no bayo but either way makes a respectable grouping for a rifle older than my father. I've only shot my M44 with the bayo extended, but I have heard of problems if the bayo, when folded, is pressing against the stock.
I'm getting 3-4 MOA for a 5 shot group with any of my three Mosins and I know that I'm not doing all I can (flinch a bit, gee wonder why?). All have decent bores though. Some pitting but no counterbores. Wish I could hold your group size with a handgun though...
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
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Process of elimination. Start at the beginning - the 'tripod' of accuracy:
1. Gun
2. Ammo (& more specifically, ammo to gun match)
3. Shooter, including both shooter skill & rest setup.
First, try to eliminate #3 buy getting a good rest setup. Solid bench and lead sled or GOOD sandbag rests - these are not cheap - lead sled is probably easiest way to get into something reasonably stable. Also, shooting skill is involved in #3, but with groups that big, it ain't your skill in all likelihood. But to be sure, add an optical sight if possible with a QUALITY mount and quality rings, or a peep rear sight in place of the stock rear. Make sure your Rx glasses are up to date. Control breathing, etc. Recoil pad if you think you're flinching. Try 50 yards to see if the groups are roughly 1/2 size, or way less than 1/2 size. If way less, then it may be your vision/sight combo. Use a highly visible bullseye.
Failing that, you'll need to pick rifle or ammo. First, other ammo, I suppose. Work up some handloads or take 3-5 different kinds to range and test them all. If you feel like you have a good rest / good hold, then try ammo first instead of second. Most likely culprit, if you feel like you're getting good holds.
Failing that, it's the rifle. Bore clean thoroughly to remove copper and other fouling. Make sure stock screws are secured tightly. Failing that, new rifle - that one's just a collector, or an up close and personal kinda gun (unless you want to try accuracy tricks like re-crown, stock bedding, etc.)
1. Gun
2. Ammo (& more specifically, ammo to gun match)
3. Shooter, including both shooter skill & rest setup.
First, try to eliminate #3 buy getting a good rest setup. Solid bench and lead sled or GOOD sandbag rests - these are not cheap - lead sled is probably easiest way to get into something reasonably stable. Also, shooting skill is involved in #3, but with groups that big, it ain't your skill in all likelihood. But to be sure, add an optical sight if possible with a QUALITY mount and quality rings, or a peep rear sight in place of the stock rear. Make sure your Rx glasses are up to date. Control breathing, etc. Recoil pad if you think you're flinching. Try 50 yards to see if the groups are roughly 1/2 size, or way less than 1/2 size. If way less, then it may be your vision/sight combo. Use a highly visible bullseye.
Failing that, you'll need to pick rifle or ammo. First, other ammo, I suppose. Work up some handloads or take 3-5 different kinds to range and test them all. If you feel like you have a good rest / good hold, then try ammo first instead of second. Most likely culprit, if you feel like you're getting good holds.
Failing that, it's the rifle. Bore clean thoroughly to remove copper and other fouling. Make sure stock screws are secured tightly. Failing that, new rifle - that one's just a collector, or an up close and personal kinda gun (unless you want to try accuracy tricks like re-crown, stock bedding, etc.)
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kd7nqb
Member
Thanks for the help. I will make sure to really clean the bore well including getting any and all traces of copper out of there. Then I will pick up a few different types of ammo and then take it to the range and shoot it from the Lead Sled. I will of course report my findings.
rangerruck
Member
one more thing; go get a couple of boxes of silver bear , think they are 180 grainers, and get some brown bear 205er's. I have never seen either of these, that did not shoot good in every rifle they were tried, especially the 205's.
shiftyer1
Member
deleted
W.E.G.
Member
Nagant M44 - precise as a dental pick.
W.E.G.
Member
Oh yeah?... well Nagants can be stylish AND tactical too!
SSN Vet
Member
appeture sights are a wonderful thing
TexasPatriot.308
Member
can you fix it so it be a grenade launcher?? should cure your problem.
100yds
Here is a cheep thing to try.
Try to find a cartridge with a lighter projectile. Your rate of twist may be to slow to stabelize a heavy bullet. I dont know anything about the rifle in question, but I can tell you I had a Rem 700 .223 that absolutley would not hold a pattern with a 60gr bullet and shot like a dream with a 50 gr bullet after some research I found out that a 1 in 12 twist would not handle a 60 gr bullet. Now when I purchase a rifle the first thing I figure out is what bullet weight I want to shoot from the rifle.
Here is a cheep thing to try.
Try to find a cartridge with a lighter projectile. Your rate of twist may be to slow to stabelize a heavy bullet. I dont know anything about the rifle in question, but I can tell you I had a Rem 700 .223 that absolutley would not hold a pattern with a 60gr bullet and shot like a dream with a 50 gr bullet after some research I found out that a 1 in 12 twist would not handle a 60 gr bullet. Now when I purchase a rifle the first thing I figure out is what bullet weight I want to shoot from the rifle.
Sunray
Member
"...Mosin because of stock design kicks like a mule..." And the weight.
Like Cosmoline says, the ammo matters. Milsurp ammo isn't made for great accuracy. Slug the barrel.
W.E.G., fabulous 07:05 PM picture. Says a great deal about shooting PBI rifle ammo out of a carbine. The other one looks like a Star Wars reject. That you shooting? It hurt to shoot?
Like Cosmoline says, the ammo matters. Milsurp ammo isn't made for great accuracy. Slug the barrel.
W.E.G., fabulous 07:05 PM picture. Says a great deal about shooting PBI rifle ammo out of a carbine. The other one looks like a Star Wars reject. That you shooting? It hurt to shoot?
rangerruck
Member
... that pic above... that has to be the most thorougly bubba'd up rifle I have ever seen. Do we know that it is even real? My God, looka that thing...
Badlander
Member
WEG That looks like A very practical rifle you have there. Good Squirrel rifle.
First, cut yourself a 3/4" X 3/4" piece of black electrical tape. Poke a good, clean pin hole through the very center. Then, stick that to your lens (eye glasses or shooting goggles so that in the shooting position, you are looking through that pin hole. Your front and rear sights will be clear and crisp, and so will your target. It will create an aperture effect, and remedy most eye issues.
Second, if checking for accuracy, you need a rest in the front and in the rear. Start at 50 yards for confidence and to check group, then move to 100.
Third, if 1 and 2 fail to produce decent groups, check the ammo. Then check the rifle for issues. You should be able to hit 8" circles at 100 yards off the bench.
Best of luck and please let us know what you experience.
Geno
Second, if checking for accuracy, you need a rest in the front and in the rear. Start at 50 yards for confidence and to check group, then move to 100.
Third, if 1 and 2 fail to produce decent groups, check the ammo. Then check the rifle for issues. You should be able to hit 8" circles at 100 yards off the bench.
Best of luck and please let us know what you experience.
Geno
doc2rn
Member
I would check the crown if its bright and shiney you may have one that was recrowned on the fly to push it out the door. It may need a compitent gunsmith to recrown your barrel. Another thought would be to shoot some lighter ammo than full charged 7.62x54r. I know my shoulder hurts after a few of those.
Not to be off topic, but if this gun is not very accurate,how did the russians hold stalingrad with this pig iron in wwII ?or fight on any front for that matter? it was also used as a sniper rifle,& add the russian winter to the mix,i guess you have to hand it to them ! boy are we spoiled today compared to them ! 
ol' scratch
Member
It could be a number of things. First off, the sights on the Mosin are not to my liking. Also, you could be flinching. Have someone load a dumby round in your rifle and go through the paces. If you jerk when you get to the dumby round, you are flinching. Most people don't even notice until they have a FTF. If you do have a flinch, go through some dry fire exercises to gain some muscle memory. Also, it could be that you are not focusing on the target, but instead on the front sight.
Squeeze the trigger, don't pull it. Leave about a half inch gap between your trigger finger and the stock. Practice breathing. What works for me is to take a deep breath, let it out a little bit, hold the rest and squeeze.
These are all things I did to improve my marksmanship. I too was a good pistol shot and horrible on the rifle range, but have improved dramatically. My last trip to the range was my best-Shot under 2 with an unaltered M1 Garand using 168 grain Hornady Match BTHP's at 100 yards. The rifle has a great barrel, however. It gauges in at a 1' at the muzzle and a 1.5 at the throat.
After all of that, it could be the rifle. Most of those Mosins were run hard and put to bed wet. It could be the rifling is worn at the muzzle. If you are still having problems, pick up a muzzle gauge and check the wear.
Squeeze the trigger, don't pull it. Leave about a half inch gap between your trigger finger and the stock. Practice breathing. What works for me is to take a deep breath, let it out a little bit, hold the rest and squeeze.
These are all things I did to improve my marksmanship. I too was a good pistol shot and horrible on the rifle range, but have improved dramatically. My last trip to the range was my best-Shot under 2 with an unaltered M1 Garand using 168 grain Hornady Match BTHP's at 100 yards. The rifle has a great barrel, however. It gauges in at a 1' at the muzzle and a 1.5 at the throat.
After all of that, it could be the rifle. Most of those Mosins were run hard and put to bed wet. It could be the rifling is worn at the muzzle. If you are still having problems, pick up a muzzle gauge and check the wear.
panrobercik
Member
Mosins can be picky about ammo. I had a 91/30 that wouldn't really group at 50 yards with HB ammo but than it made nice touching groups with LB.
M44 due to the bayonet attached is a little weird to shoot. I sold mine and got some 91/59's and M38. Love those.
Aiming at 4 inch target, I printed 4 inch group @50. (I can't see a damn thing at 100 so I shoot open sights at 50) Next I attempted to shoot 1 inch target but since I couldn't see it , using a marker I drew 2 inch target and shot 2 inch group.
Where I'm going with this is that I think you should shoot the smallest target you can see. At 100 yards I would suggest a red bullseye so it doesn't blend with the sights.
M44 due to the bayonet attached is a little weird to shoot. I sold mine and got some 91/59's and M38. Love those.
Aiming at 4 inch target, I printed 4 inch group @50. (I can't see a damn thing at 100 so I shoot open sights at 50) Next I attempted to shoot 1 inch target but since I couldn't see it , using a marker I drew 2 inch target and shot 2 inch group.
Where I'm going with this is that I think you should shoot the smallest target you can see. At 100 yards I would suggest a red bullseye so it doesn't blend with the sights.
smince
Member.
Am I missing something here? The Op said:
Then Geno said:
It's not like we all don't know this rifle won't shoot sub-MOA groups anyway.
The OP fired 15 shots at 100 yds. 11 hit inside an 8" circle. Even though it is referred to as 'no signs of grouping', from a 20" barrel surplus fireball-maker with sights designed to hit men, not small bullseye targets. I don't really see the problem.
Then Geno said:
Which, from the Op, says that's what the rifle did.
It's not like we all don't know this rifle won't shoot sub-MOA groups anyway.
joshk-k
Member
"What are you focusing on when you are shooting at that distance? The target or the front sight?"
What is the correct answer to this question? In other words, at 100 yrds with iron sights, should I be focussing on the target or the front sight? The answer tot his almost certainly will help me too.
Thanks,
JOsh
What is the correct answer to this question? In other words, at 100 yrds with iron sights, should I be focussing on the target or the front sight? The answer tot his almost certainly will help me too.
Thanks,
JOsh
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