I just got off the line with Charter 2000's CEO!

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gunfan

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I had suggested that he build an "I" frame-sized "undercover-type" of revolver, chambering it in both .32 H&R Magnum (six-shot) and .38 S&W Special (five-shot) revolvers. He was very interested! If he does thses in both all-steel and aluminum alloy frames, these will be an undercover Narcotics Officer's dream!

We need to watch for his Bulldog-frame revolvers in .44 Special (2, 4 and 6" barrels), .357 S&W Magnum (also in 2, 4 and 6" barrels) and in .32 H&R Magnum (in 2 and 4" barrels). They will be making their debut at the Las Vegas SHOT show in february!

Scott
 
Now that MKS Supply is handeling sales, marketing and distribution of Charter firearms, maybe Charter can concentrate on improving their quality.
 
magsnubby said:
Now that MKS Supply is handeling sales, marketing and distribution of Charter firearms, maybe Charter can concentrate on improving their quality.
Click to expand...

I told him of peoples' trepidation concerning such issues. He assured me that these were being addressed. I told him that we wanted to see the Charter Arms of the 1980's revived yet again. He assured me that it would be.

Scott
 
If he should make a true I-frame gun it would be nice for the reasons you stated. But the I-frame cylinder is only 1.250 long. You could make versions in .22 LR, .22 WRM, .32 H&R Magnum, 9mm Para., .38 Super Automatic, and .38 S&W (unlikely), but not .38 Special, unless you want to stick to full wadcutters only. The pistol cartridges would require clips of course.
 
Charter could fill a good gap in the market, if they tried. There are plenty of folks who would LOVE to buy their stuff if it weren't the Yugo of handguns. (or so people think)
I wish Charter all the luck in the world. An affordable .44 special sixgun that wasn't the size of a catcher's mitt would be a great thing on the market, as long as it worked properly.
 
Old Fuff said:
If he should make a true I-frame gun it would be nice for the reasons you stated. But the I-frame cylinder is only 1.250 long. You could make versions in .22 LR, .22 WRM, .32 H&R Magnum, 9mm Para., .38 Super Automatic, and .38 S&W (unlikely), but not .38 Special, unless you want to stick to full wadcutters only. The pistol cartridges would require clips of course.
Click to expand...

Were they to chamber it in .22 LR, (as they do in their Pathfinder) .22 WRM, (as does S&W in their "J" frame) .32 H&R Magnum, (as they will in their Bulldog lineup) 9mm Parabelleum (as Taurus does in the IB lineup) The .38 Super will not likely happen in this frame becuase it would not be efficient.

The .38 Super would work well in their Bulldog line, due to its increased case volume and slow-burning propellants in commercial loadings. Their .357 Magnum Bulldog would be a perfect platform for the .38 Super cartridge.

A five-shot 9mm would make a very nice "I" frame arrangement. .35 caliber, good short-barrel ballistics, excellent for deep concealment. If you were to arrange for the forcing cone to be flush with the inside of the frame "window", you could conceivably shoot 125-grain JHP .38 S&W special loads.

Scott
 
When I called, I had suggested that he could manufacture the "I" sized frame from his aluminum alloy, (in their "Off-Duty" permutation) so that he could get the revolver down to about 8 ounces. This would be a Narcotic Officer's dream! .38 S&W Special performance (9mm Parabellum, .32 H&R Magnum, and .38 S&W Special) in an uber-light revolver! What a concept! :what: :eek: :rolleyes:

Scott
 
gunfan:

S&W I-frame cylinder length = 1.250"

.38 Special OAL = 1.550" (max.) You'll need to go to a J-frame size for this.

But a .38 Super will just fit in a I-frame cylinder if the rim (.050") is outside of the chamber, supported and headspaced by a clip. The length of the cartridge inside of the cylinder would = 1.230". or less. (1.280" OAL - .050" rim = 1.230"). You could use a 9mm Para., but why send a boy to do a man's work? :evil: :D
 
Old Fuff said:
gunfan:

S&W I-frame cylinder length = 1.250"

.38 Special OAL = 1.550" (max.) You'll need to go to a J-frame size for this.

But a .38 Super will just fit in a I-frame cylinder if the rim (.050") is outside of the chamber, supported and headspaced by a clip. The length of the cartridge inside of the cylinder would = 1.230". or less. (1.280" OAL - .050" rim = 1.230"). You could use a 9mm Para., but why send a boy to do a man's work? :evil: :D
Click to expand...

Old Fuff: David slew Goliath with a sling, cut off his head with his own sword and took 5 smooth stones in preparation to kill Goliath's brothers. Man's work, indeed! :what: :neener: :D I'd take a 9mm, five shot revolver into a "scrappy" situation, (read: up against a drug dealer) wouldn't you? :confused:

Scott
 
gunfan:

If I knew I was going to be in the situation your described, I'd want the biggest, meanest handgun (or shotgun) on the block, preferably mounted on wheels… :evil:

However if I was limited to a middle-bore, 5-shot snubby – then yes, a 9mm Para. would be as acceptable as say a .38 Special.

But if I could get a more compact S&W I-frame, or Colt Pocket Positive sized gun with a short 1.250” cylinder and equally sized down frame I would choose the more powerful .38 Super over the lesser 9mm Para in the same package.

The .38 Super cartridge is the longest, popular round that you can get into a short 1.250” cylinder, and anything the 9mm can do, the .38 Super can do better. Other then the 9mm’s international availability and relatively low cost for practice ammunition I don’t see any advantage in using it in place of the .38 Super.

I see this concept as a pocket or ankle holster gun – or one carried in deep concealment. In such an environment anything that shortens the overall length or reduces weight or bulk is advantageous.

Most of our traditional revolver cartridges are based on black powder beginnings, and therefore long in length. Or they are Magnums, made even longer to prevent use in non-magnum guns. All of this requires long cylinders. Pistol cartridges were made to be used with smokeless powder from git-go, and are shorter. Unless someone is going to bring out a new line of short revolver cartridges (which is unlikely, Federal tried with the 9mm and failed) pistol cartridges will be the best candidates for use in a short cylindered revolver, excluding the .32 H&R Magnum or various .22 rimfires. The .38 Super by the way is the same OAL as the .32 S&W Long.

An argument could be made to shorten both the frame and cylinder to match the 9mm cartridge, and that could have some merit. But if we are going to look at a duplication of the S&W I-frame/Colt Pocket Positive/Taurus I.B. with a 1.25” cylinder I’d still advocate the .38 Super over the 9mm. ;)
 
Old Fuff: I spoke with Nick at Charter 2000 yet again this morning. He said that he was looking into obtaining an "I" frame for further investigation. I spoke to him of the 9mm and the .38 Super as well. If he is a thinking man, (as I believe he is) he will look into producing the diminuitive "I" frame size in the following 4 calibers: 22 WMRF, .32 H&R Magnum, 9mm Parabellum and .38 Super.

These should be manufactured with both 2", 3" and 4" barrels. The 4" barrel should have the option of adjustable sights. This revolver will "fill the gap" left when S&W discontinued the "I" frame in 1961, and provide more potent chamberings in the frame size to boot! What could be more desirable than that?

By the way, Nick said that he believes that the 9mm version would, in his words, "sell like crazy". I believe that he's right! Either way, anyone that wants a potent "pocket" revolver is going to benefit from these developments, don't you think?

Scott
 
Yup...I wanted to get a Charter in 44 Special...AND I called...a year ago...AND I was given this long song about production troubles...their machinist/tooling guy was in Iraq?.... AND how he wnated to revive the old Charter...AND the GREAT improvements to the old Smith Design...AND I got the whole blowing smoke thing....AND was told in six months they would be in full swing...so just wait for those great revlovers to come out...

It still has not happened.

I spent my $ elsewhere.

Shane
 
Very cool! :cool:

I look forward to checking the snubby lines out. ;) I'm not a .44 special guy, but there seem to be lots of 'em about and there's not much on the market in that caliber now. I'd be more interested in the .357 mag offerings. I have a good +P rated Taurus "Ultra Lite" that's pretty nice.
 
Could you get him to make a bulldog-sized gun in .45lc or perhaps .45acp with moonclips? I'm not going to pick up a .44 special bulldog, but I'll probably have .45lc/acp lying around because of various single action autos and revolvers.
 
If it was affordable and small and reasonably light, I might go for a 9mm with moon clips mainly for the cheap ammo, but also because out of a snubby, it's got more power than a .38. I have a 9mm compact, but I'd like to have a snubby revolver also. I'd want a 3" barrel on it.
 
Yugo? Nah...maybe Chevy Chevette.

wheelgunslinger said:
Charter could fill a good gap in the market, if they tried. There are plenty of folks who would LOVE to buy their stuff if it weren't the Yugo of handguns. (or so people think)
I wish Charter all the luck in the world. An affordable .44 special sixgun that wasn't the size of a catcher's mitt would be a great thing on the market, as long as it worked properly.
Click to expand...

I have a Charter Bulldog Pug from the late 80's that still chugs along, and one of their old stainless .38 Off Duty revolvers. They are both good shooters and have at least 500 rounds apeice through them.

No, not as pretty by any means as one of my Smith & Wessons, or as classy as a nice Detective's Special...but they work.

I agree with you wheelgunslinger, I wish them luck, and would buy another Charter.
 
They can give S&W a "run for their money"! Believe me, Charter 2000 is not dead. They have the pooprtunity to ursup Taurus from their position.

Taurus' quality control is its "achille's heel" and with a coup de grace, Charter could knock Taurus props put from under them! :eek: :)

Go get 'em Nick!

Scott
 
In our latest conversation...

Nick told me of someone that had returned his .44 Bulldog to the factory 3 times! The man lived about 1/2 mile from the factory, and handloaded his own ammunition. Bringing his own ammunition to the factory range, Nick first tried shooting standard 'factory' .44 S&W Special ammunition through the customers revolver. Noticing no ill effects or complications, Nick swiched over to the customer's handloads... Holy $#!#! The customer's loads were so hot, they equated .44 Magnum fodder! :what: :eek: :uhoh: The muzzle flash and recoil were so intense that it was incredible!:eek: Of course, Nick told him that he couldn't feed the revolver handloads of that intensity.

The fact is that the strength of Charter 2000's lineup should be evident. They're not the fragile revolvers that many have been led to believe. Nick told me that he has so few returns on his products that it is unreal. It may be wise to give his newer products their due. I can't wait for the results from February's SHOT show.

Scott
 
gunfan

Yea, I love that. People think you can just shove as much powder into a gun as they can and expect it to work. Had one person at the local range try and bum some of my 357 loads in 38 Special brass from me. (Blue Dot powder needs to be compressed, thus I use the smaller case.) He quit when I told him that they would blow his gun into about 50 pieces. I even have them labled .357 Magnum, but he saw the 38 Special headstamp and kept "wanting to try them".
 
I had a Charter many years ago and liked it fine as a range gun. I'd like to have one that I could trust as a carry piece as the quality on that .38 Undercover was less than I desired. I've been looking for a .22mag Pathfinder for years with no luck as I really liked that one, I hope it gets returned to production(and CA Aproved). I wish them luck and I'll buy something from them just to keep the doors open.
 
I have a Charter 2000 Bulldog Pug in .44 special.
It is a good little belly gun or extra piece to keep in the car. I've
only run through a few cylinders worth of ammo but no problems.
Cost less than $200 out the door from Acad (it was on clearance).

All around no complaints.
 
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