I just got off the line with Charter 2000's CEO!

[gunfan]

I'd really like to see nice, small frame .32 (Long or Mag) and .22 Mag revolvers with 3" barrels.

The .32 revolver with 3" barrel topic has already been covered.

So I'd like to add that a .22 Mag small frame revolver with 3" barrel would be infineately better than the 2" barrels now offered by S&W, Taurus, Charter Arms, and possibly others.

The .22 Mag revolver is ideal for very recoil sensitive people wanting a light, small gun. The problem with .22 Mag is that it is loaded with slow burning powder for rifles. It is not loaded for shorter handgun barrels. Therefore, the .22 Mag velocity suffers severely from a 2" barrel. The 3" barrel would largely correct this while providing more sight radius, not adding much weight, and still be able to fit in a coat pocket.

From a 3" barrel the .22 Mag would have enough velocity to be a serious weapon, especially with regard to penetration. From a 2" barrel the .22 Mag is very wussy for defense.

I believe that in .22 Mag a 3" barrel makes it a viable 3 shot stopper while the lightest gun that a recoil sensitive person can easily fire and conceal.

In 2" barrel, the .22 Mag is almost useless for defense. The ballistic difference and accuracy difference are extreme between the 2" and 3" barrel. I don't like the 4" barrels because who can conceal one?

The .32 H&R Magnum is the only practical way to obtain 98-120 grain SWCHP lead projectiles (w/gas check) to cruise along at approximately 1000 fps. This would virtually duplicate the performance of the 158-grain SWCHP in .38 S&W Special. (from a 4" barrel). If you load the 98-grain WC to 1100 fps with 4.1 grains of WW-231 in a Federal case, you will have a potent (and controllable) load for use in the 2"-2.5" barrel. I'd be willing to go so far as to say that that you could see a healthy 1025-1050 fps from these "snubbies".

Scott

 

[HiCap1]

For years I've toyed with getting a Bulldog, and yesterday I bought a new Pug and took it to the range for a quick check to see how the recoil was going to be. One round of Blazer and it jammed. Opened the cylinder, shook it, and tried to dry fire it. It finally worked. One more round of 6.5 gr. Unique behind a 240 gr. LSWC, and it jammed. Very disappointing. It's going back, and I'm certain it will be fixed to my satisfaction, but instead of working on new applications perhaps the effort should be devoted to QC.

HiCap

 

[gunfan]

I have no problem putting a Taurus small frame .38 special with 3" barrel into my general size coat pocket. It fits well and does not show.

However, I can't handle the recoil due to arthritis and screws holding my hand together.

I'm hoping for a .32 Long or .32 Mag revolver with 3" barrel, hopefully not too light. Around 20 to 23 oz would be perfect for me to shoot .32 Longs. I suppose 17 to 18 oz would also work for .32 Longs.

I just would shoot .32 Longs and not .32 Mags in a gun this size. To handle the .32 Mag I need a larger heavier revolver like Ruger SP-101, which I also own and can shoot.

The small frame .38 I mentioned I can no longer shoot due to hand problems.

My point is that a small frame .32 or .38 with 3" barrel fits fine in a coat pocket. It won't fit in a pants pocket with a 3" barrel, but I wouldn't want the 2" in my pants either (uncomfortable).

So a 3" barrel is not just for holsters, it's also great for coat pockets.

Thanks

If you call Nick @ 1-203-922-1652, he'll listen to what you have to say! I think that his fit/finish will be improving in 2006. A 4" adjustable-sight "Bulldog" in both 4" and a fixed-sight 2" version will be at the SHOT show in February.

Scott

 

[albanian]

I had an older Off Duty SS and a newer Charter 2000 Undercover. The old Charters were good guns but the newer ones lacked quality. I wouldn't call them junk but they are not as well made as the old stuff.

If they made a decent 9mm that was about 12ozs, I could see that being a real winner. I think the 9mm is a good fit for a snubby. I would buy one if they would just make the darn thing!

 

[gunfan]

My point precisely!

This is why I have suggested a ressurection of the "I" frame. An 8-9 ounce 9mm, .32 H&R Mag. or 9-shot WRM (aluminum frame) would be a less-than-healthy "surprise" for some junkie @$$hole!

Scott

 

[jsr5]

I see a bull dog pug in 44 in my future and if I like it enough a pathfinder in 22 or 22mag.

 

[GaryP]

CA Pathfinder

Yep, a 4" or 6" Pathfinder --- preferrably 6"--- would be welcome back in the CA catalog!

 

[joneb]

would anyone like to see a .40 S&W rimmed cartridge ???

 

[Crosshair]

would anyone like to see a .40 S&W rimmed cartridge ???

Na, just use moonclips.

 

[joneb]

ya, it might go the way of the 9mm federal and the .45 auto rim. I just think it would make a more efficient revolver. Able to shoot the .40 S&W with moon clips, but better yet be more powerful than the .38 spl.and with a shorter cylinder could give way for a longer barrel and still be compact. Well I guess I'll just keep dreaming. :banghead:

 

[foghornl]

I would love to see how a Charter would would perform with the new materials and manufacturing processes available now.

I had one of the 1974-75 or so vintage .44Spl bulldogs. The only knock I had was not against the revolver, but the cost of ammo...

44Mag was less than $20/50, 44Spl was around $30/50...sometimes as much as $35/50...pretty cotton-pickin' expensive for the mid 70's, when I was making $120 a week.

 

[kmrcstintn]

A few things to contemplate

Taurus came out with 9mm snub revolvers near the size of an "I" frame...they flopped and have been discontinued. 9mm out of a short barrel is not efficient; the powder is still burning outside if the barrel...you lose performance, reduced velocity and diminished energy numbers.

Taurus came out with .45acp revolvers, one size with a 2" barrel...they flopped and have been discontinued. Sometimes trying to develop, market, and distribute revolvers, especially insanely lightweight ones, to chamber semiauto calibers is not the best thing to do. They are ineffficient, hurt the shooter, and take resources from a manufacturer, especially one that is trying to revamp and remake their image. :banghead:

 

[KeltiKevin]

If someone comes out with a light weight double action "I" framed revolver in .32 H&R, I will purchase it on the first day it's released.

 

[gunfan]

Taurus came out with 9mm snub revolvers near the size of an "I" frame...they flopped and have been discontinued. 9mm out of a short barrel is not efficient; the powder is still burning outside if the barrel...you lose performance, reduced velocity and diminished energy numbers.

Taurus came out with .45acp revolvers, one size with a 2" barrel...they flopped and have been discontinued. Sometimes trying to develop, market, and distribute revolvers, especially insanely lightweight ones, to chamber semiauto calibers is not the best thing to do. They are ineffficient, hurt the shooter, and take resources from a manufacturer, especially one that is trying to revamp and remake their image. :banghead:

Let's face it, Taurus' QC is not only 'spotty' but questionable at best. Nick at Charter Arms has said that not only will his products' quality improve, but that we can expect innovations and products unseen in over 20 years.

Scott

 

[HiCap1]

Got my new Bulldog back from Charter and will try it today. Installed a nicely bobbed hammer. I hope it shoots as well as it looks. Report tomorrow.

HiCap

 

[gunfan]

By the way...

S&W Builds "snub-nosed" revolvers in .45 ACP and they are being purchased in spades! S&W built a 9mm revolver it is highly sought after by shooters and collectors.

The 9mm DOES lose some power from shorter barrels, however, the 9mm loses a comparable amount of power as does the .45 ACP from the same length of barrel. Why? The shorter case of the 9mm can be loaded with faster-burning propellants that will accelerate the lighter bullets to their terminal velocity more quickly with the shorter runway than do cartridge with larger cases (e.g. .38 S&W Special, .357 S&W Magnum).

This is why a short-barreled revolver chambered in 9mm Parabellum/.380 ACP will work VERY well. Even the Russians realize that the 9 X 18 function well in revolvers. (Their 9 X 18 revolver using moon clips is an issue piece of ordnance to certain members of their military).

Scott

 

[HiCap1]

The Bulldog performed admirably. At 7 yards it shot low with 200 Gr. Blazer but right on with 240 Gr. lead 6.5 Gr. Unique. Nice protection.

HiCap

 

[Biker]

How many fps do you figure you're getting with the 240gr load?
Biker

 

[JamesCNC]

Charter 2000 Bulldog .44

I had posted in another thread where someone was making noise about how he wouldn't own a charter arms pistol. i had a large supply of various .44 special ammo laying around bc i sold my Smith mdl 24. planned on firing it out of my .44 magnums but saw this Charter 2000 Bulldog at my local gunshop for $279.00
I have since fired 1000 rounds of 240gr winchester cowboy, several hundred rounds of 165gr cor bon jhp, some winchester silvertips, and a couple hundred rounds of Hornady 200gr jhp. through this gun. it still has a very tight lockup, the Dbl action trigger pull stacks terribly but averages about 10lb
the single action drops at about 5lb and is crisp. it consistently puts the Hornady ammo into an inch or less at 30 feet, can cover most groups with a quarter. wont put two federal SWCHP's into the same zip code tho, go figure.
all the other stuff gives steady 2 inch or so group, you just have to hold off according to the bullet weight. IMHO this is a high quality affordable shooter and i think you'd be hard pressed to better it in its price range. i have had Smith's that wouldn't shoot a 1 inch group with any bullet known to man at 30 feet.

 

[gulogulo1970]

Taurus came out with 9mm snub revolvers near the size of an "I" frame...they flopped and have been discontinued. 9mm out of a short barrel is not efficient; the powder is still burning outside if the barrel...you lose performance, reduced velocity and diminished energy numbers. :

Wrong, the 9mm does very well out of short barrels. It is quite a bit more efficent than a 357 out of a short barrel. The pressure spike is quicker than the longer cased 357, which really need a long barrel to become useful to a point of putting up with the extra flash and recoil and I dare say noise. Plus if you look at the numbers the 9mm out of a revolver and a 357 mag are very close ballisticlly. The 357 still has an edge but not by very much.

I would love an I frame in 9mm or 40S&W.

 

[Blimp Captain]

Just out of curiousity is the 9x19 Para and .380ACP interchangable in a revolver?

I would be interested in a 9mm revo as the only other guns I own other than 22lr and blackpowder are 9mms and the keeping the ammo types to a minimum sounds great.

A 9mm revolver would be perfect for the 9mm shotshells as they won't cycle in my semi. However, I would perfer for the moonclips to be more of an optionable item.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I told him of peoples' trepidation concerning such issues. He assured me that these were being addressed. I told him that we wanted to see the Charter Arms of the 1980's revived yet again. He assured me that it would be.

Scott

I loved my old blued steel .44 Bulldog I bought in the early 1980s. I kick myself regularly for selling it. It was about the most ideal carry revolver ever made. Not designed to be shot a lot, but carried often. Only complaint I had with it was that a cross pin in the frame would work itself out after about fifty rounds of fire. All I had to do was remember to push it back in after each box, and it was fine. I'm sure a gun smith could have fixed it so it didn't come out, but I chose to sell it. What a dummy! Anyone know where I can buy one of those "kick yourself" devices?

 

[gunfan]

Just out of curiousity is the 9x19 Para and .380ACP interchangable in a revolver?

I would be interested in a 9mm revo as the only other guns I own other than 22lr and blackpowder are 9mms and the keeping the ammo types to a minimum sounds great.

A 9mm revolver would be perfect for the 9mm shotshells as they won't cycle in my semi. However, I would perfer for the moonclips to be more of an optionable item.

Yes it would! A ressurection of the "I" framed revolver (in 9mm/.380) would be quite welcome among Undercover Narcotics Officers and American Military Personnel (as a backup to their Beretta M9). Even the great Massad Ayoob believes that it would be a good idea! Mas told me that he is going to drop by Nick's booth at the SHOT show to support for my "I" frame, 9mm/.380, .32 H&R Magnum, 22WRF/WMRF idea. Now that's an endorsement!

Consider the possibilities!

Scott

 

[gunfan]

The Bulldog performed admirably. At 7 yards it shot low with 200 Gr. Blazer but right on with 240 Gr. lead 6.5 Gr. Unique. Nice protection.

HiCap

Good on ya, Brother! Shoot it in good health!

Scott

 

[gunfan]

Biker:

How many fps do you figure you're getting with the 240gr load?
Biker

About 650fps from a 3" barrel (with standard-pressure .44 S&W Special lead loads). This is just an interpolation from ammunition catalogs.

Scott