I just saw a movie that made me crack up

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AbitNutz

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So I flip on the TV and there is an old movie on with Randolph Scott called Colt 45. It was about 15 minutes into it and a guy walks on wearing a double gun rig up on his hips. The shot pans back so I can see that the guns he has on are either Colt second or third model Dragoons! The holsters go clear to his knees! It's like he was wearing chaps made out of a pair of holsters. At first I thought they had some kind of goofy rifle rigged up like a mare's leg.

It was hilarious...he must have been toting around 15 pounds of iron and leather. No wonder those guys walked funny.

Imagine, a double buscadero rig with Colt's dragoons...
 
But, back then men were MEN and they had icewater in their veins not blood .....

I've seen a lot of bizarre get-ups in old western movies & TV shows over the years.
I recall an episode of HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL in which the badguy had a device that held the gun to the holster but the gun was fully exposed, sorta like how Captain Kirk wore his phaser on STAR TREK, except the gun could be tilted upward to fire even without removing it from the rig.
Turned out such things actually existed but weren't very popular.
I suppose those big horsepistols could be toted along in holsters but it likely wasn't very common.
 
I really can't see anyone working in that western heat wearing a revolver of any kind, except maybe a Pocket. Maybe that's why the 51' Navy was so popular as it was light compared to the earlier Dragoons and Walkers.
 
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I suppose those big horsepistols could be toted along in holsters but it likely wasn't very common.
I suppose unlikely too, I've always read the big, early cavalry revolvers were carried in saddle scabbards. Since my 1950s film-going boyhood, I have learned also that most Hollywood Westerns were written by immigrant Easterners who knew nothing about the Real West but what they read in dime novels.
 
What about the famous pic of RIP Ford carrying two Dragoons or Walkers on holsters
 
I recall an episode of HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL in which the badguy had a device that held the gun to the holster but the gun was fully exposed, sorta like how Captain Kirk wore his phaser on STAR TREK, except the gun could be tilted upward to fire even without removing it from the rig.

Funny you should mention that. I saw this photo of the Bridgeport rig (the name of the rig in question) on a Youtube video on capandball and grabbed a screencap, waiting for the right time.

Here it is:
Bridgeport Rig.jpg
 
What about the famous pic of RIP Ford carrying two Dragoons or Walkers on holsters
Not saying it was never done, just that it was likely very rare.
We do know that they were called "horsepistols" because they were carried by the horse, as Carl Brown stated above. That would be the norm.
That doesn't mean there wasn't anyone who decided to put together a holster & belt rig to carry them .... even back then there were likely a few people who thought they were big men and needed a bigger gun.
 
One thing to be aware of about the era - in the first half of the 19th century men generally wore sashes and not belts. Pistols would be worn like the old single shot flintlock thrust through the sash. It would be difficult to carry a pistol as heavy as a Colt Dragoon in a sash without the weight pulling it down below your waist.

I'm not really sure what it was which changed - whether it was just fashion to wear a belt, or the large number of males who started wearing belts when they went to fight in the civil war where a belt was part of the uniform.
 
If you look at other threads in this forum, e.g. Texas Rangers handguns, there is historical evidence as well as actual antique belt holster examples that Rangers and other "mounted gunmen" indeed carried large "horse" holster revolvers in belt holsters on the Texas and western frontier, but then again, they were Rangers, not ordinary frontiersmen. ;-)
 
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Maybe that's what started the popularity of the 51' Navy, ease of carry and a 38 caliber punch as opposed to the Pocket's 31 caliber.
 
I think the idea of carrying at least one gun on the body would make sense to anyone. You are not always on the horse, you get off to pee [I would anyway] to check tracks, to set up camp for the night, adjust the horse's feed bag, or cinch, and at any time due to thunder clap, hostile fire, or what have you, and you could get seperated from your mount. Would you really want to be on foot, with no weapon in hostile country?
 
So I flip on the TV and there is an old movie on with Randolph Scott called Colt 45. It was about 15 minutes into it and a guy walks on wearing a double gun rig up on his hips. The shot pans back so I can see that the guns he has on are either Colt second or third model Dragoons! The holsters go clear to his knees! It's like he was wearing chaps made out of a pair of holsters. At first I thought they had some kind of goofy rifle rigged up like a mare's leg.

It was hilarious...he must have been toting around 15 pounds of iron and leather. No wonder those guys walked funny.

Imagine, a double buscadero rig with Colt's dragoons...

I've seen that movie, but it's been a long time. Wasn't Scott supposedly a salesman for Colt. I remember him showing two pairs of what look like 3rd model dragoons, which was the new fangled six shooter he was selling. One pair was in a cased set and the pair he carried.

The villain in the movie steals one of the sets, but the actor was a bit of a shrimp---so the Dragoons just looked too big for him. The only other thing I remember is thinking that since the movie was made in the early 50's--long before any of Italian replicas were available, they had to either find (or fabricate) what looked like factory new Colt Dragoons.

If real, those would be some really high dollar pistols today.

Cheers
 
Dear Friends,
I am a long time Western Buff. Started when on my 7th. Birthday, a maternal Aunt gave me a book entitled, "Such Outlaws as Jesse James." It was cheaply produced on wartime paper, and contained it's fair share of Romantic Hogwash, but it had some truth as well.
It purported to tell the true tales of such persons as James Butler Hickok, Henry McCarthy,
John Wesley Hardin, and many others. The chapter dealing with the Earp Brothers and the Gunfight at the OK Corral, was entitled, "The Rustlers of Galeyville!" I cannot recall who the author was, but he sure wet my appetite!
I spent the first 38 years of my life in my
native England. Served three plus years in Britain's Royal Air Force, Used to vacation at England's only Guest Ranch worthy of the name, "The Flying G Ranch, at Burley, in Hampshire's New Forest. It was seeded in 1077, but you know the Brits? It is STILL called the NEW Forest! I became a farrier in England, but in my native country, horses don't go,
"Clip, Clop!" They go,"Squelch, Squelch!" It really rains that much. Every time I wanted to have fun
outdoors, it darned well rained! So in very late
1974, I took of for Australia! Stayed there for three years, and then an American I had met in England, and who had since returned to the USA,
wrote me and told me he had found me a job over here! He said, "There will be,"No Problems with Immigration!" There turned out to be more problems than you could shake a stick at! I will
not bore anyone with the somewhat devious route
I chose to get around these problems, but I can now proudly say that this coming September, I will celebrate 32 years as an United States Citizen, and
very proud of it!
I have always been fascinated with guns, but being born where I was, it was an exercise in
extreme frustration!!! It was not until I was in my early thirties, that I finally got a Firearm Certificate
and became the proud owner of an 1873 Colt S.A.
Army in caliber .45 Long Colt! I also bought a rig to wear it in, (But only at the pistol club!) which was, "Pure Hollywierd," and was of the type we now call the Buscadero Rig, and had anyone actually tried to wear an abomination like it in 19th. Century Dodge City, many of the locals would have died. (Laughing!) I bought it with me on my very first vacation to the USA in the fall of 1974. It taught me several things! 1/ Don't EVER wear such a rig on horseback! If you have the thong tied down to your thigh, the cantle will have a number of dents in the leather, for the butt of the pistol will beat a steady tattoo on it if the horse moves faster than a walk! If you UN-tie the thong, then holster and pistol will flap up and down on your leg in a way that rapidly becomes very annoying! One afternoon was sufficient. I borrowed a holster from our friends, that rode high on a waistbelt, and soon learned from some very patient
Wyoming Cowboys, that, "Fast Draw," was a figment of some Dime Novel Author's imagination!
Since coming here to live, I have had a variety of guns, and have finally settled on Percussion Revolvers! I carry a 5.5" barreled Remington 1863 for self defense, and have worked out a load for this gun that gets well over 900 fps.
(And for a Black Powder revolver with a short barrel, that ain't hay!) I reckon any Homo Sapiens of the Felonious Persuasion who I hit fair and square 'tween Wind & Water, will only have need of one doctor! The Medical Examiner! (Far Better if one's antagonist is Dead! Then yours is the only tale told in court! No knowing how many lies he and his Shyster Lawyer could think up about one!)
I belong to the 1858Remington.com Forum
where a great many experienced shooter's congregate. Some of the others are showing a lot of interest in "Sawn Off Remmies and Colts." I feel this is is an answer to a problem that doen't exist!
I am not a big man. I used to stand 5'-8", but I believe the years have taken their toll, and that I have shrunk an inch. I weigh 165 Lbs. (Starkers on the bathroom scales.) and yet I can conceal a Shorty Remmie, very easily under just a light cotton "Safari Vest!" So why bother with the sawn off "Gambler's Specials?" Quite frankly, I would hate to have to turn loose my Self-Defense Load, in
an indoor situation. I probably would not be able to hear anything for two days afterwards! I'd also probably set my victims clothes afire!
I hope I am not going to upset anyone here, but I would not give a Colt Style Caplock
revolver Houseroom! I think the design is a very poor one. My very first cap & Ball revolver was a replica 1860 Army. I still regard it as the perfect gun for introducing a newcomer to the PROBLEMS
of Black Powder shooting! Every six shots I fired with the Darned Thing, a spent cap would fall into the innards of the thing, and I would have to resort to my Dental Pick to extract the @#*&%^ thing!
There were times when I almost hurled the wretched thing down range in sheer frustration! One evening a nice young fellow asked me if I'd like to try his Remington Replica. I accepted his kind offer, and to my amazement, got six consequtive shots off! In amazement I asked the guy to remove the cylinder for me, and when he did so, and I saw the ease with which this task was accomplished, I was further amazed. When I saw the narrow slot through which the Remington Hammer strikes the cap! I realised that this was the gun for me! I have three short barreled Remington's, Betsina, Clementina, and Sophia!, and go out as regularly as my gas allowance will permit, to shatter the Peace and Quiet of the desert. (As soon as I had the "Remington Revelation," I prayed that the Lord would send me a man foolish enough to buy my 1860 Army. The Lord provided such a man, and with the funds thus realised, I purchased a Remington, and have never looked back!)
I was prompted to join this forum, by the thead about carrying a percussion Revolver for Self Defense. IF you load your cylinders with the most
meticulous care, there is NO REASON that a Cap &
Ball revolver cannot be made every bit as reliable as a cartridge gun. In fact, they are capable of producing the most horrific injuries, because of the Pure Lead projectiles they shoot! Anyone who atacks a man who is armed with a .44 cap &Ball revolver, is in imminent danger of Death. Just look at a page of photographs of veterans of the. "War
of Northern Aggression!" Notice the high percentage of empty sleeves and trouser legs! When a projectile of Pure Lead strikes a bone, it doesn't just break it, It smashes anywhere from one inch, to four inches of the bone, into powder or Bone shrapnel Depending on whether the poor fellow was struck with a Pistol Ball, or a .58 Minie
Ball!
So if any of you are interested in loading your cylinders in such a way, that they will ALWAYS give you a nice, satisfying "BOOM!" Every
time you press the trigger, let me know, and I will divulge my secret! When one fires off this load, it does feel a little like setting of a Nike Ground to Air Missile, with your Own Two Sweaty Little Hands!
Accuracy is very good within seven to ten yards!
and it would not look too good in court, if you shot
a man at over that distance. Someone might say if he was that far away, he did not represent a threat! In fact I believe that if a man is carrying a knife, Officers of many of our police departments
are told not to let the man get closer that fifteen yards! It seems some men from Mexico are very quick indeed with the blade! Personally, I'd prefer the man to be a little closer than that, but it would depend on the circumstances of the conflict, and how scared I was! LOL!
If any of you live in Arizona, reasonably near to, "The Greater Phoenix Area," I'd be pleased to her from you, and perhaps burning some powder with you.
Sincerely, Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.
 
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Turner Classic Movies has the opening scene of the movie online:
dqrmdd.jpg
Colt .45 ( 1950) -- (Movie Clip) Finest Guns Ever Made
Opening scene, gun salesman Farrell (Randolph Scott) pitching to the sheriff (Charles Evans) when prisoner Brett (Zachary Scott) commits the crime that will drive the conflict, in Colt .45, 1950.
 
Wow. I never knew that Zachary Scott (an Austin native) was in a western as a bad guy. I need to check the Internet Movie Firearms Database to see if this one is there. I am working on going through my stash of Errol Flynn westerns (eg, Santa Fe Trail, Dodge City, They Died With Their Boots On, etc. to document the old shooters the cast used.
 
Berkley
It's interesting how Randolph Scott tells the sheriff how his two six shooters saved his life during the Mexican War while the rest of his command was massacred. If he had Colt's six shooters during the war they would not have been Dragoons or even Walkers, since US Army officers in the USMR were not allowed to draw the new revolvers during the war. The 100 Walkers issued to Capt. Sam Walkers replacement were only issued to enlisted mounted troops per regulation. Only after the Mexican War did officers AND enlisted troopers draw Dragoons and the 500 to 600 Walkers in the Baton Rouge armory stores after the war. Makes for a good movie story though. :)
 
I don't know if anybody noticed, but the two dragoons in the cased set are two different models. It's easy to spot the different trigger guards, the 2nd having a square back and the 3rd having a round. The loading lever catches are different also, but they aren't as easy to make out.

The rest of the case and it's contents are just stuff thrown together for the movie. Some sort of weird flask, a brass cap box, a tool that I can't tell if its a mold or a screwdriver--all in a French fitted style case---none of which look like anything that would have come from Colt.

Of course Hollyweird never figured the typical movie goer would notice any of this and back in 1950, I sure very few would.

Cheers
 
Yesterday the History Channel announced a new star studded (Bill Paxton, Brendon Fraser, Ray Liotta, et al) miniseries "Lone Star Rising" about the Texas Rangers from the Texas Revolution through the Mexican War by the same guys that did "The Hatfields and McCoys". No filming location has been announced...maybe Texas or New Mexico. Hopefully it will be filmed in Texas. H&M was filmed in Romania of all places with extras that didn't speak English. Hopefully they will get the guns right on this one. If filmed here I'm trying out for an extra spot. ;-). Stay tuned.
 
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The Italian made movies really pushed Hollywood towards a more accurate depiction of the firearms used during that period. Although not nearly as accurate as it should have been, at least we were seeing more revolvers looking like 51’ Navys and not 73' Peacemakers.

I saw that Elhombre and even though they have a good line up of actors, I’m hoping they stay on course with the firearms. I see one Remington or Winchester, I’m done and I’m going back to my spaghetti westerns. ;)
 
I hope they use an armorer like the one that worked on the original Lonesome Dove series and perhaps Dr. Steven Hardin to provide the historical background. He was one of the consultants on the 2003 Alamo movie and is a known Ranger expert. While a stinker movie it was historically accurate (even the predawn assault that caught the Alamo's defenders sound asleep. Unfortunately the set burned down during wild fires a few years ago. I visited the set on the Reimers ranch near Hamilton Pool sw of Austin during filming with a teamster buddy who was working there. The set was huge and a full scale reproduction of the mission and its grounds. The sheer size of the set really made me think how impossible it would have been to defend it with the .150-250 Texian and Tejano volunteers that Travis had by an outright assault of 1800 Mexican troops even without the surprise. The Texians actually had Santa Ana outgunned as far as artillery is concerned, but did not use them due to lack of powder and shell. The Alamo producer spent a ton of money on historical accuracy, especially the Mexican army. I would DEFINITELY HAVE to see s bunch of Patersons, like Barry Corbin's Rosco carried in his belt in Lonesome Dove as well as Walkers and muzzleloading single shot pistols and long guns.
 
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I liked that 2003 Alamo movie as it was more of a down to earth look at Bowie, Crockett and Travis but you’re absolutely right as they need to get that Doctor on site to show them the right types of weapons they were using like in that newer Alamo movie. That was Ron Howard that produced it wasn't it?

But hopefully the bad guys are historically armed also and would probably be using single shot pistols and duelers or pepperboxes or flinters and Bowie knives or Arkansas toothpicks.

Of course, watching with eyes the size of saucers as the Ranger slowly pulls his Paterson or Walker out of its holster.
 
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