I learned a lot about our Ruger LCR

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Working with my Wife on finding out Soul Mate CCW guns. Over the Summer we have test shot pretty much everything that is within a realm of possibility of being carried concealed given our sizes and statures. During the search she has naturally gravitated to revolvers. She just shoots them well right out of the gate with double action trigger pulls and her confidence level and accuracy is more inherent with revolvers than autos. She shoots her Fathers S&W model 19 with 4" barrel and my Dan Wesson with 4" or 6" barrel very well but both of these guns would be way too large for her to conceal....not to mention heavier than she will fell comfortable lugging around. She's 5' and about 120 at 56 years old with some arthritis in the hands starting.

Enter the Ruger LCR .38 Special +P which we purchased lightly used (50 rounds by the original owner) like NIB for $350. I never shot a 2" revolver before let alone an air weight, polymer framed 2" but suspected it might be a handful in terms of recoil with full house loads. I asked about recoil when we looked at it. The guys at the Range/LGS said "No big deal...no worse than that 9mm subcompact you shoot" It's pretty snappy with factory 125 gr loads. I can only imagine what it would do in +P. I hand loaded some 125 gr. XTP bullets with 4.4 gr. of Unique and some 158 gr. lead flat points with 3.3 gr. og Unique and these loads are powder puffs in a full size revolver yet still pretty snappy in the LCR.

We learned to shoot the LCR (both of us) today by ignoring the sights and just point shooting at 21' - it is actually a lot more accurate this way than trying to line up the trench sight and the front big white dot. But the recoil is simply painful. My guess is that this is simply inherent and to be expected in an ultralight 2" revolver...we shot an S&W air weight (scandium frame?) with the same ammo and it smacks just as hard. So, we have learned that if we want this LCR as a BUG or lightweight carry gun that hides easily, we'll either be icing our wrists after a range session or limiting how much we shoot it/practice with it. Which makes it hard to be confident with if you can't shoot it more than 20 rounds at a session. This is not a target/range gun - not a piece to practice marksmanship with. I shot 150 rounds of factory 130 gr. FMJ and mixed light hand loads and, to be frank, I'm sore 7 hours later. And I'm 6' 3" and 178. I can put 200 rounds of hot 9mm thru my Glock 26 or an equal number of factory 158 gr .38 Special +P thru my Dan Wesson .357 and not be sore like this.

I assume this is normal but I'm curious about folks who say the LCR or other 2" airweight revolvers are "no big deal" and that their 11 year old daughters shoot them. I rather like shooting it (kinda like being slapped hard on a first date...) and I'm hitting well at 21' as long as I stay away from the sights but the only thing this gun has going for it is that it is uber/ultra concealable. Neet little revolver but unless I'm wearing a speedo ( ) I can certainly hide something like my Glock 26 or Beretta Px4 sc in 9mm that won't slap me silly if I need to use it.

Or are we missing the point? I'd love to hear from other LCR owners that are having a rough adjustment period...most of what I read on the 'Net makes me feel like we are the only ones that have noticed that this gun bites more than just a little. I have some 158 gr. 38 Special +P I'm tempted to shoot and see if the recoil "tops out"....Can it be proportional?

VooDoo

 

[rcmodel]

It has been my observation over 50 years that a 300 pound man gets kicked harder by a 30-06 rifle then a 150 pound man.

Something about Rolling with the Punches?

Or an Immovable object and the Irresistible force??

I forget which???

But there is no doubt about it.
Any 10-12 oz gun firing a SD caliber is going to kick. Hard!

On the other hand?
shooting 150 rounds of anything in a 12 oz gun in one session is doing more good for your ego then your marksmanship skills.

A mans gotta know his limitations!!!

Pace yourself, and learn the fine marksmanship skills without wearing out your central nervous system in one range session by shooting too much.

rc

 

[John C]

I have an S&W 642. I don't have an issue shooting a box of ammo through it, but I typically shoot 148 gr wadcutters during practice.

One thing to try is get a larger grip for the pistol. That will allow for more control. Also, consider getting a .22 version to practice with. It'll pay for itself once .22 ammo becomes available again. Plus, small .22 revolvers are a blast to shoot. I'm serious about the .22 version. I have a S&W 317, and it's simply an outstanding revolver.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a suspicion that you and your wife are shooting from some type of Weaver style stance/arm geometry with push/pull isometric tension and locking your arms/elbow to control the anticipated recoil.

I shot several cylinders through a LCR (it wasn't mine) to help a friend fine tune his grip and check zero (I like the sights). I thought the snap was substantially less than I was getting from my S&W 642. I really like the feel of the grips on the LCR and they really made the snap pretty comfortable.

I would avoid using 158gr slugs in the LCR, I had very good luck with the Speer 135gr +P Gold Dot...plus it was softer shooting.

If you start using the Modern Isosceles arm geometry and allow the flex of your elbows absorb most of the recoil, I think you'd be a lot happier

 

[Manny]

I picked the KLCR .357 for my CCW which weighs about 3oz more and has a stainless frame rather than aluminum. A bit more weight helps attenuate recoil and as have the CT grips rather than the stock Houges, plus I shoot +p .38 ammo, every little bit helps. If you like the LCR, and don't find other work arounds, stepping up to a KLCR might help.

 

[btg3]

For my 642, grips make the difference. But the optimal grip will not be the same for everyone.

Would you buy shoes based on how they fit me, or would you want to be sure they fit you?

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Guys!

I have a 2" barrel and shroud coming for my Dan Wesson which is a substantially heavier gun but it won't be here until April. Over the holidays I'm gonna borrow my Mother in Law's Colt Detective Special and shoot it and the LCR side by side with the same ammunition. I have a sneaking suspicion Mama will be back on the revolver as a "primary carry piece" agenda when that comparison happens.

Actually, I find the LCR to not beat on me so badly when I one hand it if that makes sense. So maybe letting the gun roll and snap without attempting to fight the recoil is actually a better solution...this being my first experience with a 2" light weight I'm kinda vexed and out of my element. I have always shot as a sport and practiced marksmanship/bullseye shooting and then shot some rapid fire at the end of a session to get myself/keep myself in the SD mode with that particular gun.

But that has always been stuff like a 4" .357 or a Colt Officers ACP, a 9mm Beretta, or even out Colt .32 ACP Hammerless. I'd appreciate perspective on what I can expect with the same ammunition out of a different 2" revolver that weighs substantially more like the Colt DS. I'm feeling at this point that rather than fight the LCR we are better off switching gears and just using the investment to stay in the same vein (short barreled/compact size .38 Special but in a slightly larger/heavier gun) before Mama gets discouraged.

Perspective from the more experienced is needed and I thnk you guys in advance!

VooDoo

 

[longspurr]

As others say - grips make a big difference. Howerver for this lighweight a gun I would be using 38 wadcutters for practice, and since you reload, bumping up the velocity a bit for carry loads.

In the latest Handloader mag. Dave Scoville says"On a scale of one to 10, a wadcutter has a splatter factor of 12.

In snubby revolvers that are very iffy on energy & making a bullet expand, the wadcutter will work every time.

 

[larryh1108]

Have you considered non +P or cowboy loads for range use (with the last cylinder your carry ammo) to get comfortable with the gun? Why punish yourself with +P practice ammo if you shoot more than a handful of rounds? Just a thought to make the range trip more enjoyable while still getting the benefit of the lighter gun.

 

[HexHead]

A few things. Snubbys are meant to be fired one handed. This Weaver/isosceles stance thing has just become popular the last couple of decades. For a hundred years before that, people shot revolvers one handed. Hell, if you see film of the Army training pistol shooters in WWII, they are all shooting their 1911s one handed. Revolvers are designed to roll up in your hand when shot. You'll find them much more comfortable doing that.

When my wife first got her carry permit, I got a 442, which she could use when she wanted. We went to the range, she fired three shots, put the gun down and never touched it again. She much preferred shooting my Browning HiPower. I ended up getting her a steel framed S&W Model 36 and she's fine with that. A little more weight made all the difference, as did grips that fit her better.

 

[ares338]

Actually my KLCR has become one of my favorite shooters. I had a long adjustment period with this revolver and thought I had made a mistake in buying it. Once I got a feel for the sights it was all downhill from there.

The first 357 rounds through this little revolver was a tad eye opening. Long story short...I was choking it to death on the 357 rounds. I worked on my grip to stop so much firing hand grip pressure and my support hand does just that...it supports the shooting hand (nut cup and saucer). Of course it still is a handful in 357 but I can easily go through a box of 50 125 grain and not have to ice down my hand...LOL.

This is the only revolver I own and I probably won't get any steel revolvers (not that I wouldn't like to) because I own too many pistols and finances dictate that I don't. Value to money ratio on this Ruger KLCR is excellent. This baby gets 2nd in carry time to my XDS and I would never think of getting rid of it.

 

[DocRx]

I also carry the Ruger KLCR .357mag for SD, loaded with Winchester PDX1+P 130gr, or CorBon DPX 110gr .357mag when available in my area. I use the same grip method explained by ares338, tighter with the support hand and find them more than comfortable to shoot. Practice ammo is always a .38spl variety of ammo, finishing up with my carry at that time-2 cylinders worth. I also installed a XS Big Dot (improved accuracy/follow up shots tremendously). The Hogue Tamers are great too, and I also have some Eagle Rosewood FBI Grips to use-no problem. Recoil is an individual perception, approaching it as "expected", not "feared or scary", will help deal with it. I never feel outgunned when I have my KLCR and a reload or 2 with me. Be safe and have fun!

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Have you considered non +P or cowboy loads for range use (with the last cylinder your carry ammo) to get comfortable with the gun?

We have been shooting primarily standard pressure rounds....some 130 gr. FMJ American Eagle (2 boxes) and it was the first stuff we shot. Very snappy - too snappy for Kelly, I found it brisk but not a show stopper. I hand loaded some 125 gr. XTP's that were a gift with a very moderate amount of Unique - 4.4 gr. and these rounds yield .22 type recoil in a 4" S&W M19 and 4" Dan Wesson 15-2VH.

These are still rather snappy in the LCR but accurate and OK for me. I also loaded some 158 gr. lead flat nose with 4.3 gr. of Unique and some with 3.5 gr. of the same powder....basically very mild loads as well with excellent target accuracy and pleasant/very low recoil in the same larger 4" revolvers.

The heavier charged 158 gr. is brutal in the LCR but really accurate...the lower charge 158 gr. is still really snappy in the LCR. I discovered yesterday that all of these are a lot more tolerable (fun and accurate in SD style rapid fire at 21') shot one handed/point shooting. I'm loading some even lighter 125 gr. XTP's this afternoon.

We'll shoot all of these rounds minus the American Eagle 130 gr. FMJ's (which we shot up...love the brass!! ) in the LCP and in her Mothers Colt Detective Special over the holidays. My guess is that all of this stuff will be moot in a heavier Colt revolver and might salvage the relationship of snubbie revolvers for my Wife. She's really ouchy today and I can tell she has "jumped the shark" on the LCR...I can salvage that maybe if I develop a load that doesn't beat on her but I suspect she'll shoot the same loads in the Colt DS and the LCR will be looking for a new home after the first of the year. She will not entertain the concept of shooting mouse fart loads at the range and carrying more potent SD ammunition and truthfully the light loads I have developed and will continue to work on are too anemic for SD.

We'll see.

By the way, our LCR came with the Big Dot sight and Hogue grips. The Big Dot seems useless as the gun does not shoot to POA with the sights. We both can hammer a bulls eye with it via point shooting at 21'...I was pretty stunned to be able to shoot better groups at 21' via point shooting in rapid fire than concentrated slow sighted fire with it and factory ammo. I love the gun but it is just not a revolver for casual/range use or inexperienced or recoil sensitive folks in the least. I just found out we will have a Ruger SP101 with bobbed hammer and Hogue grips to test with the Colt DT nest time. We'll get to the bottom of this.

VooDoo

 

[larryh1108]

I have a Charter Arms Undercover, which is a light .38 Special snub. I use 2.8gr to 3.0gr of Bullseye with a 158gr LSWC for range use. Very low recoil compared to standard .38 Special loads. I am starting to get arthritis in my wrists and shooting anything started to get painful after a few minutes. I dialed down all my range ammo to allow me to enjoy the range like I used to. Wimpy? Maybe. But at least I can shoot more than 2 cylinders before it becomes too painful to be fun.

 

[DocRx]

Just a note. Read the directions for "sight picture" for the Big Dot, both from Ruger and XS if available. You have to set the Dot in the crux of the back sight, and "cover" your POI with the Dot to hit anticipated POA. It works for me beautifully at any range. YMMV. Be safe.

 

[Haywood]

If you do not have the Tamer Grip, Try it, it cushions the recoil on my 357 LCR. My wife is recoil sensitive so I have her practice with 125g. 38 and a heavyer gun and only a half hour on the Range. My point is. A Tamer Grip, lighter loads for most of the practice, and a shorter practice session may help. My wife shoots a 2" snub well for the first half hour. As her hand gets tired, her accuracy goes.

 

[Old Fuff]

My Taurus 85 Lightweight and Colt Detective Special are usually loaded with 148 grain wadcutters backed with 3 grains of Bullseye. The performance and recoil is about the same as .38 S&W factory loads, but the wadcutter bullet is far more effective.

People forget (or ignore) that the .38 S&W was developed and expected to be used in pocket revolvers, and during the time it was popular was regarded as a good fight-stopper at close range.

If for some reason I feel that this isn't enough (which is seldom) I switch to a larger gun and cartridge. Too many folks forget Bill Jordan's excellent advise to balance the cartridge to match the gun's size and weight.

Using too much cartridge performance (meaning recoil and muzzle blast/flash) in a lightweight snubby revolver usually ends up causing a serious case of flinching, and that is not good.

 

[BSA1]

You are getting lots of good advice.

First of all you have discovered the everything is a trade off in firearms. Lighter weight, smaller frame and grips along with hotter the load means more recoil.

Second it sounds like both of you need to work on the basics. Work on the hammer dropping while pulling the trigger through being a surprise. Avoid looking over the sights after firing the round.

Third and perhaps most important is quit shooting when you get tired regardless of number of rounds you have shot whether it 10 , 25 or 50. In fact I would limit my shooting session to not more than 50. Once you keep shooting as you get tired is reinforcing bad shooting habits which undoes the positive skills you are trying to learn and as we know bad habits are very hard to break.

As pointed out wadcutter and semi-wadcutters are effective S.D. rounds. I would forgo the +P stuff until you master the basic wit reduced loads.

 

[contender]

From my experience, the LCR 357 model is the perfect compromise in weight for pocket carry and enjoyment in shooting +P 38 special ammunition.

Heavier than a standard LCR or a Smith airweight, while lighter than a Smith 649 or sp101.

The LCR magnum is tolerable in the pocket and enjoyable at the range therefore she gets carried often and shot often.

It replaced my S&W 642 which was carried often and beginning to be shot seldom.

 

[SeanSw]

I have not fired any of the LCR models yet but my partner and I have been hemming and hawing over a variety of snub nose carry options. I was prepared to hate the Ruger over the S&W options but my preconceptions were wrong about the LCR and the new Smiths were below expectation.

I was a bit surprised at the weight difference between the .38 and .357 models. The magnum version is 21% heavier. I realize it's just a few ounces overall but that's a significant increase over starting weight for a type of ammo that may honestly never be used in our pocket gun. It's a game of ounces. I'm beginning to feel that even my Taurus TCP is too heavy for pocket carry and belongs on a belt but I'm sure most people would just tell me to get over it.

 

[btg3]

If thinking about a .357 instead of .38spl, the .44 special might be an even better choice for reasons given in this thread...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=737451

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

One of these suggestions may be the answer:

Change the grips on the LCR
Change the ammo in the .38sp LCR (90gr Hornady?)
Change the LCR to the .22 Magnum or .22lr model
Change the LCR to the heavier .357 model

 

[LeontheProfessional]

I have a KLCR that I shoot 38s and 38+Ps out of regularly. The recoil is very manageable. I carry some 125gr Hornady Critical Defense 357Mag that are a pain to shoot but they are mean!!!

 

[John C]

I see your wife's point about training the way she would fight. But I think that she's overlooking the fact that she needs to train up to the level of the LCR, if she decides to carry it. Obviously, any CCW handgun is a compromise between size, capacity, power, concealability, and hassle. If she wants a lightweight, powerful gun, it's going to kick. These pistols are not for beginners.

Another point about training the way you fight is if you can only handle 148 gr wadcutters, then carry those. Defensive ammunition has surpassed the humble wadcutter in effectiveness, but similar powered options like the Federal Nyclad are out there. A 125 gr bullet at 830 fps will feel quite similar to the 148 gr wadcutter at 700 fps.

Since you reload, why not work up some easy practice/plinking loads that you can shoot a lot of without tiring? Matts bullets has wadcutters from 75 grains on up. http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65&zenid=ca2eaj2vtck1pnj2bkn7mfmk81 Those and a couple of grains of bullseye will allow you to practice working the revolver without developing a flinch or other bad habit.

The Detective Special is bigger, heavier, holds one more round, and easier to shoot. The only issue is that it's more difficult to carry day in and day out. Again, use it as a training piece, then work up to the LCR. Or, if that's truly your limit, stay there. Steel framed snubbies are excellent revolvers.

Good luck,

-John

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

The Detective Special is bigger, heavier, holds one more round, and easier to shoot. The only issue is that it's more difficult to carry day in and day out. Again, use it as a training piece, then work up to the LCR. Or, if that's truly your limit, stay there. Steel framed snubbies are excellent revolvers.

Good luck,

-John

Thanks for the comments Guys.

I loaded some bare bones 125 gr and 110 gr. bullets today and these are about as long as I can go and get the bullets out of the barrel. We'll give them a shot next time at the range and see if we can revive her interest in the LCR. Frankly? I don't think I can dumb them down low enough to make them comfortable in the LCR.

She loves the gun...the trigger pull, the conceal ability, the finish and durability/craftsmanship of the gun is classic Ruger. Top of the line. I think we have simply reached the limit of how small and light we can go and still have a functional revolver for a small person that is, to some degree, compromised by arthritis and age/life.

That said, she's still hot on a revolver and gaining a higher comfort level with this as her primary carry piece and that means more range time and more bullets in the target. She's not gonna get that with the LCR until she can master the recoil and discomfort so we are seeking other revolvers to train with. We have an S&W model 19 4" and a Dan Wesson with a snubbie barrel and shroud coming. We have access to a Colt Detective Special and my Gun Buddy at the range is gonna let her shoot his Ruger SP101 2".

Comparing these steel alternatives side by side shows that they are bigger and heavier but not so much that hiding them will be impossible. She shoots well and confidently with our M19 and the Dan Wesson 15-2VH and the Colt DS and Ruger SP101 and well as a borrowed S&W M60LS appeal to her very much and she is comfortable handling and dry firing them.

I'll reserve judgement until we actually shoot them but my guess is that all of the recoil issues and such will disappear with a 21 - 26 oz gun. The Ruger LCR is a fine piece but it's gonna be more practical in much larger hands.

Again...we'll see. But we are getting a huge education in snubbies and despite the discomfort we are moving well ahead and making good choices. Plus it gives me reloading time and both of us time at the range so who's losing at this game?

VooDoo