I miss Cooper

[Yo Mama]

I was looking at another post and saw a member learned about the word hoplophobe. It got me thinking how since Col. Jeff Cooper has died, has his wisdom began to disappear?

Are there new icons that you feel are on par with Cooper? I'm not talking gurus, but real people of thought and wisdom.

http://myweb.cebridge.net/mkeithr/Jeff/
I posted this on another discussion, but wanted to add here. It's Cooper's commentaries from 93-02.

We miss you Col. Jeff Cooper.

 

[Nushif]

I think that Massad Ayoob guy is one of the newer icons. He seems to be more worried about training than second amendment rights, though.

 

[Joe Demko]

Cooper's additions to the world of firearms knowledge are indisputable. I do not miss his pontificating on other topics.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

I always enjoyed Col. Cooper's firearm wisdom as well as his take on life.
My father passed away in 2002 at age 90. Before radio and television, folks shared knowledge on the front posrch. The Great Depression wasn't just a page in a history book, my father lived through it.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I also miss Jeff Cooper. I didn't always agree with him, but I appreciated much about his direct approach to things. It's a pleasure to go back and read his Commentaries from time to time. They are still available up on the Internet. I've also downloaded them in case they ever disappear from cyberspace.

 

[Old Fuff]

I had the privilege and pleasure of knowing him, and we never had a discussion that wasn’t enlightening. His intellect, knowledge, and interests went far beyond firearms, and while his opinions were sometimes controversial, they were seldom wrong – at least from my point of view – and you never failed to know where he stood, about anything. In a final assessment he was something seldom seen today, a man for all seasons.

Yes, I do miss him...

 

[oldbear]

Col Cooper

I did not always agree with Col. Cooper's view of the world, but I could never disagree with his thoughts on self defense, and the roll the handgun played in it.

On two occasions I wrote the Col. and both times I received timely and gracious responses, one of the marks of a true gentleman.

 

[loadedround]

I too miss Jeff Cooper along with Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan, and Skeeter Skelton. Gun writers today couldn't even carry these gentlemen's ammo, let alone write like them.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Jeff Cooper

While the good Colonel was undeniably knowledgeable regarding firearms, self-defense, and other areas, I had/have trouble reading his work.

My impression is that his attitude always seemed to be, "I'm the expert, I'm right, this is how it is, any expressions or thoughts to the contrary, or even ideas that you might have something to add to what I say, are wrong-headed, ill-informed, or just plain stupid. You're wasting my audiences' and my time. Now shut up and listen to The Word."

This attitude, while useful in a sergeant instructing recruits, would seem to be counter-productive in even a very highly qualified expert, when addressing the general public, some of whom may indeed have intelligence, knowledge, and experience of their own.

I grant you his expertise. I grant you his wisdom. I grant you his experience. But I gave up reading him years ago.

 

[Ron James]

It is very easy to place individuals on a pedestal once they have gone on that last journey, and I was always told not to speak disregardful of the departed. However, I have always thought Cooper was just too full of his self. His way or no way and every one else was wrong. Also many of his so call exploits have been called into question, such as his so call adventure in Viet Nam. As others have posted, I stopped reading anything written by Cooper a long time ago. Cooper was just too full of BS and overly opinionated.

 

[KodiakBeer]

You don't have to like his attitude or agree with him to respect and admire him.

Cooper was a holdover from an earlier time when men still spoke directly and honestly, without using all the weasel words we use today to hide our true thoughts behind a veil of political correctness. People like Cooper weren't controversial fifty years ago.

 

[sig220mw]

Cooper had something that is rare in the media these days. Honor, intelligence and common sense.

Today everything is reversed. Bad behavior is celebrated. When someone points it out they are called judgemental. But the ones yelling out about being judged don't mind doing a little judging themselves.

Cooper may have been a "know it all" but he was a good man.

 

[3845]

About 20 years ago or so I was in attendance at a departmental firearm training session with an out of state (always better than home grown!) instructor. During a break he asked me if I had attended any shooting schools, because he was of the opinion that the way I held my revolver was very correct. He wanted to know where I learned the grip.
I told him that I had never been to a shooting school, but when I was young I read Cooper On Handguns, and studied the photos. He said, "Oh", like that explained everything. I suppose it did, too.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Fifty years ago...

Kodiak Beer--a half-century ago, people with strong opinions who expressed them, and gave the impression that opinions to the contrary were not only wrong, but stupid, were called big-headed loudmouths.

You said,

Cooper was a holdover from an earlier time when men still spoke directly and honestly, without using all the weasel words we use today to hide our true thoughts behind a veil of political correctness. People like Cooper weren't controversial fifty years ago.

I will respond to your comment in the manner I was taught, well over 50 years ago: Sir, while I respect your opinion, and your right to hold it, and will defend to the death your right to express it, I feel that you are seriously mistaken. Civility, politeness, and mutual respect have never been out of style.

 

[Ky Larry]

I always felt Col.Cooper was a man of personal and intellectual honesty. He said what was on his mind and he believed what he said. His knowledge and experience was offered to any who were interested but were never forced on any one. Kind of reminds me of 'Tuner on this forum.

 

[Hangingrock]

his so call adventure in Viet Nam?

Ron James :Also many of his so call exploits have been called into question, such as his so call adventure in Viet Nam.

What adventure in Vietnam?

 

[Jim Watson]

I like Cooper's stuff.

There was a generation of writers before Cooper and Skelton; less well known contemporaries of Elmer Keith.
I really like Henry M. Stebbins, author of 'Handguns, a Modern Encyclopedia' and 'Rifles, a Modern Encyclopedia' ca 1958; along with some other books and Gun Digest articles.
In his day, Phil Sharpe was a major writer on guns and handloading.
Captain Charles Askins was a nicer guy than his son Colonel Charles Askins, but I never read much of his stuff because he was largely a shotgunner.

Current writers, I like Tim Mullin's stuff; he has some very unconventional takes on well known firearms.
I think our own C.E. Harris is one of the more levelheaded writers in the game.

 

[Hangingrock]

Jim Watson: I really like Henry M. Stebbins, author of 'Handguns, a Modern Encyclopedia' and 'Rifles, a Modern Encyclopedia'

Yes! I have both. Great books.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Kodiak Beer--a half-century ago, people with strong opinions who expressed them, and gave the impression that opinions to the contrary were not only wrong, but stupid, were called big-headed loudmouths.

True, but none of those adjectives describe Cooper. He always gave a rational argument in response to a disagreement. The only people he had no patience for were those who based on arguments on emotional grounds. Such people are fools and it would be dishonest to characterize them as anything else.

I once had a series of emails with him about his Scout Rifle concept. Basically, I told him he was barking up the wrong tree and that the Scout Rifle already existed in the Browning BLR Lightweight since it incorporated everything he asked for with the exception of being a lever gun instead of a bolt rifle.
He didn't respond by calling me a fool or stupid, in fact he told me it was an excellent suggestion and that he would try one out. Months later, out of the blue, he emailed me and said he had tried one and found it to be everything I'd said it was - fast, accurate, light, magazine fed, etc. He thanked me for the suggestion and said the only issue was that it couldn't be shot effectively from a prone position. And he's right about that. You can shoot a BLR from prone, but you have to break your sight picture to do it.

I found him pleasant and open to new ideas.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

If one has resolve in what they have found to believe, and they speak with assertion and confidence, then they may appear to be arrogant and full of themselves. On the other hand, they may just be sincere, frank, and earnest, and not worried about how they come across....only that they have stated themselves clearly. If we come to a point in our reasoning, double check it to insure validity, then we do not have to apologize if it offends someone. "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth" about sums it up. Cooper rode, shot, and spoke straight from the head and heart.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Cooper & Kodiak...

Kodiak Beer--I am glad for you that you had a positive experience, and a useful exchange of ideas.

ETA--Sharps Dressed Man--you said,

then we do not have to apologize if it offends someone.

I once read that a gentleman never offends others--unintentionally. One need not be offensive in order to clearly and unequivocally express one's point of view.

And with this, in the interest of remaining High Road, I am going to cease responding to this thread. If that seems abrupt I apologize.

 

[SaxonPig]

Too opinionated? Oh, you don't like people with strong opinions? Then the Internet is the place for you.

Cooper's critics usually cite arrogance as their main complaint. He did have attitude but my theory is that when someone has the credentials and can back up what they say with what they do (or have done) then I cut them some slack.

Cooper graduated from Stanford and had a masters degree from the Univ. of Ca at Riverside. He wrote numerous books and countless magazine articles. He served in the USMC during WW II and the Korean Conflict retiring as a Lt. Colonel. He spoke of being in three gunfights with handguns.

He is credited with being the founder of modern practical pistol training. He trained thousands of police, military and civilians. He hinted at doing covert government work in the 1950s and 1960s.

Was he perfect? No. Does everyone always agree with him? Of course not. But who of us here has the credentials to stand as Cooper's peer and offer criticism?

 

[Pocket Rocket]

I think that Massad Ayoob guy is one of the newer icons. He seems to be more worried about training than second amendment rights, though.

Nushif,

Has he published something that isn't pro 2A? I've never gotten that feeling from reading any of his books or articles.

 

[SalchaketJoe]

I too miss Col. Cooper and have a few of his books that I dust off now and again. Though, I believe he was hung up on the bolt action rifle as being the end all, be all. Not saying that it has outlived its usefullness, but an accurate semi in a good riflemans hands is more effective on the battlefield. M1 Garand vs. variety of other bolt action WWII rifles showed that you can have both fast and accurate fire.

Oh, it was partly on Mr. Cooper's fondness of them that I ended up trying out the CZ75 I now have. He was right about its ergonomics being excellent.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Smokey Joe,

My impression is that his attitude always seemed to be, "I'm the expert, I'm right, this is how it is, any expressions or thoughts to the contrary, or even ideas that you might have something to add to what I say, are wrong-headed, ill-informed, or just plain stupid. You're wasting my audiences' and my time. Now shut up and listen to The Word."

I'm not saying this is the case but someone far wiser than I once told me if you talk down to people they tend to start thinking a bit harder and examine topics more closely just to prove you wrong. Could it be possible this Cooper was using this device for that purpose as well?