I need a good definition of "sticky extraction" in a revolver

[crimsoncomet]

I shot some 357s yesterday. I came up with pretty decent loads. I loaded some 140ftx with aa#9 and some 200gr cast with h110.
Here are the loads:

140 ftx
Wspm primer
Worked up to 13.5gr of aa#9
Remington cases
Cases were standard length
(Primer real flat)

200 cpb
Wspm primer
Worked up to 11.5gr of h110
Winchester cases
(Primer not flat at all)

Here is the question. I want a definition of sticky extraction. What I mean by definition is, barely hang in the cylinder, hard to push out by hand, drive the cases out. I normally don't look at primers for pressure signs. But the 140's loaded in the remingtin brass look pretty flat. Could have something to do with the strange beveled primer pockets. No extrusion into the firing pin hole. The primers in the winchester brass looks very round. They both extracted with the push of my finger on the extractor rod. They came out with slight resistance. I was able to place them back into the cylinder with ease. But there was some resistance. Just want some input before working the 200's up further.

 

[beatledog7]

Opinions will vary.

To me, any spent cartridge that won't fall out of the cylinder by gravity alone exhibits a degree of sticky extraction (mechanical extractors notwithstanding). Perhaps a more knowledgeable member can answer this followup question:

Wouldn't full power loads will quite often fit this description without necessarily indicating any overpressure hazard?

 

[45ACPUSER]

If when the revolver is inverted 90 degrees from being perpendicular to the floor, the cases do not darn near fall out of a relatively clean chambers then you have a probelem. A person barely have to touch the ejector rod to get the cases falling....

H110 is not a powder you work up. It needs to be at near the max. The max reduction is 3 Percent from a published reliable data source.. Probably not good powder to use with plain base cast bullets either.....H110/296 if not operating near max will have a lot of blow by around the cases.....which can give you sticky extraction.

Having fired a bunch of 38's before testing 357's can give sticky extraction from bulelt lube, and carbon deposits...

Best to test load with a clean and dry cylinder.....

 

[kingmt]

45ACP just about took the wards out of my mouth. Most of your sticky extraction will go away with a quick cleaning or you don't have enough pressure to seal the brass to the walls. The over pressure rounds I have seen in a revolver won't go back in by pressure.

 

[918v]

In most cases, fired brass will not fall out on it's own when the cylinder is tilted. They need assistance from the extractor star. Consider the amount of effort it takes to move the extractor. A cylinderful of fired brass should not put an additional detectable load on the extractor.

 

[crimsoncomet]

A cylinderful of fired brass should not put an additional detectable load on the extractor.

Very little pressure was put on the extractor star to extract the cases.

H110 is not a powder you work up.

I do understand that. I was given a charge of 11.0gr of h110 by CPB company. The cases come out dirty as heck. I will def be going up in charge.

 

[45ACPUSER]

If your cases are dirty as heck...that is blow....get a different powder.....IMR 4227 comes to mind....

 

[kingmt]

"The cases come out dirty as heck."
I don't use H110 but I bet this is the "sticky" you fell.

When you get one you will know it. The bad thing is if you get to that point you are way over pressure.

 

[Slamfire]

Here is the question. I want a definition of sticky extraction. What I mean by definition is, barely hang in the cylinder, hard to push out by hand, drive the cases out. I normally don't look at primers for pressure signs. But the 140's loaded in the remingtin brass look pretty flat. Could have something to do with the strange beveled primer pockets. No extrusion into the firing pin hole. The primers in the winchester brass looks very round. They both extracted with the push of my finger on the extractor rod. They came out with slight resistance. I was able to place them back into the cylinder with ease. But there was some resistance. Just want some input before working the 200's up further.

Wish it were simple. Whether or not the brass just falls from the revolver depends on a number of factors.

My 357 Ruger Blackhawk has rough chambers. Cases usually won't fall out under gravity.

My 357 S&W M27 revolver chambers have mirror finishes but tighter chamber mouths. So loads that that easily extract in the Ruger take a push out of the Smith.

If it takes more than a simple rap on the ejector rod to extract cases, the load is too hot. As the cylinders get fouled from powder residue and unburnt bullet lube you would expect extraction to get more difficult, and it does. Call it parasitic friction.

If you have to put the ejector rod on a table and push on the grip to get the cases out of the chamber, your load is way too hot.

For a top break revolver, any load above powder puff level is too hot.