I need a little bit of edumacation-7.7 Jap and .303

[possom813]

I got to go to Big Town gun show today with the wifey. We saw a lot of stuff that I could have broke the bank on. Anyways, we looked around bought a set of maple grips for the Charter .38.

I was there mostly for reloading stuff, but what I want can be had cheaper online. So I started looking for a K-31 because I've been jonesing for one for a while now. I found two good specimens, but a little more than I wanted to pay for them.

So we kept looking and I found a sporterized(not bubba'd) .303 like my dad used hunt with. The only thing that I found wrong with it was the peep sight. It has the peep sight that can be adjusted up to 13(1300 yds??) But the piece that actually makes it move up and down is missing, the slide is on the sight, but nothing else. I've already fired about 10 rounds through it and it's dead on as is at about 125 yards. I know info is out there to let me know exactly what I've got, but I'm not sure where to start looking. Not bad for a gun with 90 buck sticker on it.

My wife showed up at the table about the time we were trying to figure out the trick to making the bolt go back in and noticed another rifle that was gorgeous. It was a 7.7 Jap(Arisaka maybe?). I don't know anything about this gun. I remember someone telling me a long time ago that there was a military rifle that the bolt would sometimes blow back into the shooters face. I don't remember what type of rifle it was, but two different vendors assured me that this wasn't it. I bought it as well with an 80 buck sticker on it.

To sum up, I bought two sporterized military rifles for 160(10$ off for buying both) out the door. The .303 came with 30rds, well 29, one was a .308 and the 7.7 came with 23 rounds. So I figure I got a pretty decent deal, but would like to know where to find out more info on both.

Thanks,

John

 

[PTK]

Very good deal, even with the SMLE being sporterized. Is the mum intact on the Arisaka?

 

[dmftoy1]

Here's some help for your Enfield: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/

Great guys there and I bet they can help you locate any missing parts . .

 

[possom813]

Is the mum intact on the Arisaka?

What's the mum? And are all 7.7's Arisaka?

And the .303 is a SMLE???

 

[possom813]

NM on the mum, found it on the web. It's not intact, it's worn down in the center so that the outside petals are visible.

 

[jlmurphy]

Later Arisakas were 7.7, earlier models were 6.5, they decided the 6.5 was too small for machine gun use, so converted to 7.7 just before W.W. II, but never fully phased out the 6.5's.

 

[DougW]

The cool thing is that if you reload, both rifles use a .311 bullet (7.7mm). It will make bullet selection a bit easier. The dies are different though.

 

[Oohrah]

Sporting ammo for the .303 British is pretty easy to come by, but
can only recall Norma for the 7.7. I sure there may be some importers
now, and I seem to recall Hornaday may be making military versions of
both.

 

[aka108]

Might as well buy something in 7.65 Argentine and a set of dies since the same bullet will work there to. Cases can be formed from 8mm Mauser brass.

 

[Vaarok]

Privi's making 7.7 Japanese for cheap. My local shops charge $17.99 a box.

 

[fireflyfather]

Grafs & Sons is by far the cheapest place to buy ammo for the Arisaka. They also have new brass (PRVI). I'd buy a set of dies from Lee (not sure if it headspaces on the rim...if so, might think about asking Lee to make you a custom neck sizing die to improve brass life over full length sizing) and a bunch of brass from Grafs. PRVI also makes decent BTSP bullets for .303/7.7/7.62x54r. If you cast, slug that barrel and start thinking of the TL-312-160-2R mold from Lee (Ed Harris design). Works great in my Mosin.

I would not worry about the bolt flying out on the 7.7 Arisaka. That rifle is widely considered to have one of,if not THE strongest actions ever on a military issue bolt action service rifle. If the rifle still has the anti-aircraft style sights, that is a bonus too (they used those rifles for squad/platoon volley fire against aircraft...I recently read a story of a Flying Tiger pilot's plane being shredded behind the cockpit, only because his plane was a bit faster than the plane the rifle sights were calibrated to shoot down. Had he been in a P-36, the pilot would have been shredded by rifle fire). Nice rifle. Wish I had one and a set of neck-sizing dies. I'll have to make do with my Mosin.

Edit: Grafs is out of the cheap ammo. They have Norma & Hornady, but at high prices. The components, however, are still cheap. PRVI brass at $0.40 per case, and PRVI 150gr SPBT at $0.18 per bullet. That's about $0.80 per shot, and $0.40 once you start reloading that brass. If you buy in bulk, shoot very light loads, and especially if you cast, you can get that cost WAY down.

 

[goon]

The Arisaka is known to be very strong. Most of the stuff I've heard or read about the bolt flying out of them was from guns that were not built correctly and pushed into service because of the war.

 

[SMLE]

The rifle that had the bolt issues was the Canadian Ross. The 7.7 jap RIFLE ammo is rimless and therefore headspaces on the shoulder just like 30-06 or 308.
The 7.7 jap machinegun ammo was "semi-rimmed" and I'm not sure how they headspaced them. The japs also used .303 Brit as well, so they had three DIFFERENT 7.7 cartridges in their supply stream to keep straight.

If your new Enfield has the peep sight, it is a #4, not a SMLE. rear sight parts are not that hard to find. Numrich, Sarco and Springfield Sporters should all have them.

 

[MM]

The Arisaka rifles manufactured late in the war, refered to as "last ditch" rifles have a notorious rep for using cheap metal. I have a type 38 6.5 mm brought home by my father. No chrysanthemum exstant, it shoots well, seems very stout, but is expnsive to feed.
MM

 

[possom813]

If your new Enfield has the peep sight, it is a #4, not a SMLE. rear sight parts are not that hard to find. Numrich, Sarco and Springfield Sporters should all have them.

So far what I've learned from the enfield forum that was linked earlier is that it's a No4 MKI. It has the MKIII rear sight, which isn't broken, I was mistaken on how it worked. Also, they said it was probably a Fazakerly?

 

[Wheeler44]

There is a very helpful Lee Enfield forum over at gunboards.com. Come to think of it there is a Japanese forum there as well. Good luck with your new firearms.

 

[MM]

Here is the Type 38 to which i alluded...
MM

 

[MM]

OK, let's try that again...
MM

 

[MM]

HMMMMM, seems to have a prob uploading...
MM