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I need a spicier large pistol primer

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by R.W.Dale, Mar 3, 2010.

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  1. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    After today's first outing with the 45 win mag bolt gun it's become rather obvious that win LP primers aren't up to the task of igniting 28grs + of ww296-h110

    What I need is the hottest, hardest, meanest large rifle primer made. Pretty much a LR primer in a LP cup.
     
  2. bogus mcall

    bogus mcall Member

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    So now what are u gonna do? I'veI read that Federal primers are the hotest but that's still not LR mag primer. Maybe you can modify the pocket so you can use LR mag primers.
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I'm confused. The .458 Mag cases can take LR Mag primers, so why the LP cup reference. Ignition problems? Do you want the hottest LP or LR primer?
     
  4. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    How cold is it there kroch?

    I've used 28 grs of W296 under a 44 mag bullet with WLP with no problems.

    I have used CCI 350 Magnums too, it may be hotter than the WLP.

    Most of the time it is much warmer here, I would think. If it is too cold I stay in the house, my bones don't work good with cold.

    Here's a link for Rifle primers, got to look fro the Pistol link...

    http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

    Jimmy K
     
  5. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Today was a nice day in the 50's. But in spite of this I was getting 100fps + velocity spreads and was reduced to swabbing out the unburnt powder from the bore between shots.


    Walkalong you're not the first to assume 45 and 458 win mag are the same. Which of course they're not.
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Are we talking about a bolt-action chambered for the .45 WinMag Wildey Pistol cartridge?

    Or the .458 WinMag elephant rifle cartridge??

    If it's the auto pistol cartridge headspaced on the mouth, it just might be the lack of a firm roll crimp holding on to the bullet until the powder lights off.

    At any rate, a Mag Pistol primer should light off 28 grains of H110/WW296 just fine.
    That's about the going rate in a lot of .44 Mag loads with a firm roll crimp.

    I'd try sizing but not expanding at all to up the neck tension to the max and see what happens.

    rc
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Well dang. I'll blame it on old eyes, and the bolt gun reference. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    AA #9 & N110 are much easier to ignite, and have given me some good numbers. Just a thought.

    rc's right. That is not much more H-110 than a .44 Mag load with 240's, and about the same with 200's.
     
  9. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    Walk and Rc I had to read it twice myself, I think kroch was messing with us!

    I shoot that load in my 44 mag, with a 200 gr Speer, it is stiff!

    What kind of gun do you have in 45 Win mag?

    Jimmy K
     
  10. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    this


    It's a Stevens 200 wearing a 1/28" twist 17" mcgowan bbl
     
  11. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    i use cci lp mag primers for igniting heavy doses of h-110 in 50 ae, 480, and 41.
     
  12. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    That would make a neet hog gun for the GA swamps! Photos?

    Jimmy K
     
  13. billybob44

    billybob44 Member

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    I light off 30gr. of H-110 under a Hornady 180gr. XTP with Wolf Large Pistol Mag., with great success. Just put together some of those .44's this AM.
     
  14. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    [​IMG]


    I snagged a couple packages of cci mag lp primers on the way to work just now (what the shop had)

    A lot of comparisons to 44mag are being made but after some thought I'm not so sure they're valid. At similar charge, bullet weights and case capacities the pressure curve is going to drop off much more rapidly with a bore of .452 vs .430 just as a simple function of the greater surface area on the base of the bullet.
     
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    4227? Sr4759?
     
  16. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    I believe the CCI #35 is the hottest primer out there. Enlarging the pocket might be a problem! :banghead:
     
  17. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I don't think we'll have to go to that extreme yet.

    I fully expect my results to improve with more suitable lp primer. That said I'd still like to find the toughest ones, because as it stands with a fully supported case, in an action capable of 65k psi my limiting factor is going to be what a LP primer can take.
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I still think it has more to do with not being able to roll-crimp like you do in a magnum revolver caliber.

    Try it without neck expanding to get more case neck tension and I bet you get better results.

    rc
     
  19. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I've already tried that (albeit on accident) without belling the case mouth you cannot get a bullet to even attempt to seat. But aside from slightly expanding the case mouth my Lee expander die is not expanding the "neck" to any measurable extent at all.

    I just don't think the win primers are hot enough. There's a post somewhere where 1858 had the exact same problem with 45 LC, win primers and 296-h110. Either way if the cci350's don't fix my problem I'll definitely post about it. I may turn out too that a 200grn bullet is just too light for h-110/296 to do it's thing.
     
  20. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  21. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I figure there's a good reason only one of my (speer no11) manuals show this powder with 200grn bullets. You'll note hodgdon only goes as light as 230
     
  22. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  23. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I think I'm going to write off this powder and bullet combo in favor of ww231 loaded to 1K fps for when I get a can.

    I just ordered 3 boxes of 250grn Nosler JHP's, I'm thinking this weight will better serve this cartridge and platform. I may really go out on a limb and see if I can get suitable performance (read accuracy) from N-120 of which I have almost 4 lbs left over from my 30ppc largo days. I also still have 1lb of LIL GUN of which I have no Idea what to do with.



    FYI the primer shortage may be easing up but right now Jacketed handgun bullets are nonexistent
     
  24. kludge

    kludge Member

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    Tag.

    Hornady 230gr or 250gr XTP's? 240gr XTP/M?
     
  25. Maj Dad

    Maj Dad Member

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    Try AA#9

    Olin has always stated in their loading data (mirrored by the other manuals) that a heavy crimp is necessary for proper burning of 296 (and can give squid loads without it), as rc implied. If you can't get that with yours, I think you'll have to at least consider switching powders. AA#9 has always worked well for me in my 44s, but I have always used a heavy crimp in 44s (&357s) so I can't speak to not using it. I have not seen any language from AA indicating that a heavy crimp is required... :scrutiny:
     
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