I found a very nice model 19. It is 2 1/2 inch square butt. The blueing on the gun is almost perfect. It has a serial number of 7807xx.
The shop wants $299. Is that a good deal?
Zach
The shop wants $299. Is that a good deal?
Zach
I need advice on a model 19
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Never seen a square butt 2 1/2 19 before (though not doubting they made them).
Personally might be of collector interest but I really prefer the RB for snubs so I'd wait. If you like it though and all else checks out good, would not be a bad price in my area at all.
Personally might be of collector interest but I really prefer the RB for snubs so I'd wait. If you like it though and all else checks out good, would not be a bad price in my area at all.
Blueduck is right, a square-butt model 19 with a 2 1/2" barrel wasn't a catalog item. This doesn't mean that S&W didn't make any, but it is a good reason to be careful. The next thing is the serial number you posted. A model 19 should have a letter(s) preceeding or after the number, and what they are could make a big difference. Depending on the age, the number should be on the bottom of the butt, or on the frame under the barrel. To see it you will have to swing out the cylinder. You may also find it marked with the model (19) or with a dash number (19-2) or whatever. All of this will help identify what you are looking at. Then the discussion can turn to values.
The serial number has a K before it. The serial number is on the butt of the gun.
I was wrong. The grip is a round butt.
I was wrong. The grip is a round butt.
"K7807xx."
This puts your Model 19 (a -3 model) in the 1968 time period, pretty early in the year.
I'd say get it if it passes the Jim March test. Get it quickly before it disappears into someone else's hands.
This puts your Model 19 (a -3 model) in the 1968 time period, pretty early in the year.
I'd say get it if it passes the Jim March test. Get it quickly before it disappears into someone else's hands.
I personally don't have much use for a .357 Magnum with a 2 1/2" barrel - a 3" or longer length is better suited to the cartridge. However I agree with FPrice, if this revolver turns you on, move - and do so quickly!
Old Fuff...
"I personally don't have much use for a .357 Magnum with a 2 1/2" barrel - a 3" or longer length is better suited to the cartridge."
I generally agree with you on this point. However I do prefer to use .38+P in K-frame snubbies. If I intend to use .357 Magnums primarily I'll use a 4" barrel. But the nice thing about the 2 1/2" is that you can use a Magnum round if you have to. I just don't like to use very many.
The other point is that S&W revolvers from that time period seem to be pretty good. And this one seems to be a good buy based on the evidence presented.
"I personally don't have much use for a .357 Magnum with a 2 1/2" barrel - a 3" or longer length is better suited to the cartridge."
I generally agree with you on this point. However I do prefer to use .38+P in K-frame snubbies. If I intend to use .357 Magnums primarily I'll use a 4" barrel. But the nice thing about the 2 1/2" is that you can use a Magnum round if you have to. I just don't like to use very many.
The other point is that S&W revolvers from that time period seem to be pretty good. And this one seems to be a good buy based on the evidence presented.
Another factor may be that sub $300 used S/W revolvers used to fill up every dealers and pawn shops shelf space between all the guns they were *really* trying to sell. At least around here those days have pretty much come and gone
I really wish 5 years ago I would have taken $1,500 or so and bought a collection of 6 or so near perfect condition used model 19's 13's 15's and 10's. Not that it could not be done now, but literally I could have done it in a weekend back then, now it would take carefull shopping and months if not years of waiting for the best deals to turn up.
I don't think it's gonna get any easier (or cheaper) in the future
I really wish 5 years ago I would have taken $1,500 or so and bought a collection of 6 or so near perfect condition used model 19's 13's 15's and 10's. Not that it could not be done now, but literally I could have done it in a weekend back then, now it would take carefull shopping and months if not years of waiting for the best deals to turn up.
I don't think it's gonna get any easier (or cheaper) in the future
If it is mechanically sound, I personally would buy the 19. That model and barrel lenght have been referred to as the "Cadilac of snub nose revolvers".Yes it will rock you when you shoot full blown magnum rounds but generally you will be praticing with .38 special target loads which are pleasant and affordable to shoot.
FPrice:
Besides the limitations a 2 ½-inch barrel imposes on the Magnum’s performance you have a shorter ejection rod trying to extract a longer cartridge or case. Also the short barrel can cause the handle to pivot away from the body unless you are using an IWB holster. All of these faults can be cured by going to a 3-inch or longer barrel. The slight additional length (on a S&W K-frame) doesn’t make the revolver harder to carry, and does make it a better weapon. Of all the revolvers you may carry the snub-nose is the least effective when it comes to shooting, and especially so if you have to fire rapidly while maintaining accuracy. They are however the easiest to conceal, and adaptable to pocket or ankle carry. For this purpose the smaller frames are more desirable. I have both 2 and three inch J-frame S&W revolvers as well as an older Colt “D†frame snub. My S&W K-frames are all 3-inches or longer (mostly longer). My marksmanship with the smaller guns is more then adequate, but it is better, sometimes much better, with the longer barreled ones.
That said, a fair part of this discussion has to do with the advisability of purchasing a certain gun for a quoted price – and on this point we are in full agreement. He should run, not walk.
And I would do the same.
Besides the limitations a 2 ½-inch barrel imposes on the Magnum’s performance you have a shorter ejection rod trying to extract a longer cartridge or case. Also the short barrel can cause the handle to pivot away from the body unless you are using an IWB holster. All of these faults can be cured by going to a 3-inch or longer barrel. The slight additional length (on a S&W K-frame) doesn’t make the revolver harder to carry, and does make it a better weapon. Of all the revolvers you may carry the snub-nose is the least effective when it comes to shooting, and especially so if you have to fire rapidly while maintaining accuracy. They are however the easiest to conceal, and adaptable to pocket or ankle carry. For this purpose the smaller frames are more desirable. I have both 2 and three inch J-frame S&W revolvers as well as an older Colt “D†frame snub. My S&W K-frames are all 3-inches or longer (mostly longer). My marksmanship with the smaller guns is more then adequate, but it is better, sometimes much better, with the longer barreled ones.
That said, a fair part of this discussion has to do with the advisability of purchasing a certain gun for a quoted price – and on this point we are in full agreement. He should run, not walk.
And I would do the same.
I'd never argue with Fuff on a subject he knows about 20 times as much as me about, but as someone who carried a 2 1/2" 19 for a few years and gets to see about 20 mostly non-gun people go through qualifications with various short revolvers twice a year, do have a couple of observations.
Full length extraction on 3" guns is kinda nice as spent rounds rarely get stuck in chamber on relaod having to be picked out by hand, but I've also noticed never seeing a short extrator rod gun getting a case stuck under the star which I've seen a lot of with longer barreled guns, so to me it's kind of wash as to which is better. Even more of a non-issue to me because if you reload correctly by turing barrel up and giving a sharp rap on rod neither situation should ever occur anyway. Course 3" 19's are pretty rare critters regardless
Agree the J's are easier to carry than the 2 1/2" 19/66's, but the K's also have more weight to reduce recoil and steady the gun, genereally substantially better trigger pulls, and on all but the new adjustable sight 3" 60, better sights.
I've seen several shooters who were constantly barely qualifying with 2 or 3 inch fixed sight J-frames, switch to a 2 1/2" 66's or 686 with great results. Little more trouble to carry but was worth it to them.
JMHO
Full length extraction on 3" guns is kinda nice as spent rounds rarely get stuck in chamber on relaod having to be picked out by hand, but I've also noticed never seeing a short extrator rod gun getting a case stuck under the star which I've seen a lot of with longer barreled guns, so to me it's kind of wash as to which is better. Even more of a non-issue to me because if you reload correctly by turing barrel up and giving a sharp rap on rod neither situation should ever occur anyway. Course 3" 19's are pretty rare critters regardless
Agree the J's are easier to carry than the 2 1/2" 19/66's, but the K's also have more weight to reduce recoil and steady the gun, genereally substantially better trigger pulls, and on all but the new adjustable sight 3" 60, better sights.
I've seen several shooters who were constantly barely qualifying with 2 or 3 inch fixed sight J-frames, switch to a 2 1/2" 66's or 686 with great results. Little more trouble to carry but was worth it to them.
JMHO
Ok a little more information and a question.
I looked inside the crane and it is a 19-3.
There is a bevel where the frame meets the barrel. It looks even and has the blueing intact. I was under the impression that the frame was squared off and dropped down to the barrel. Is this normal or does it sound like it has been worn or modified?
Zach
I looked inside the crane and it is a 19-3.
There is a bevel where the frame meets the barrel. It looks even and has the blueing intact. I was under the impression that the frame was squared off and dropped down to the barrel. Is this normal or does it sound like it has been worn or modified?
Zach
Zach:
I think that would be normal, unless the bevel goes below the barrel surface rather then up to it.
Blueduck:
We don't really disagree. When you point out that most people can shoot better with a K or L frame over the smaller J-frame you're right, especially if the smallest gun is an airweight. However I'd say that most of those with the K or L-frame revolver would do even better if they had a barrel longer then 2 1/2 inches, all other things being equal. You are right about finding 3" model 19/66 guns. Most of the ones I've owned started life as a 4-inch. In addition I treasure an old model 13/3-inch that was part of an FBI over-run. These are all fine belt guns, but not so great in a pocket - unless it's an overcoat pocket.
I have found the 3-inch barrel on a K-frame to be an excellent compromise between portability and concealment vs. effective markmanship - and the latter is far more important then the latest trick bullet. On the other hand the small-frame snubbies are ideal when, for what ever reason, something bigger won't do.
I think that would be normal, unless the bevel goes below the barrel surface rather then up to it.
Blueduck:
We don't really disagree. When you point out that most people can shoot better with a K or L frame over the smaller J-frame you're right, especially if the smallest gun is an airweight. However I'd say that most of those with the K or L-frame revolver would do even better if they had a barrel longer then 2 1/2 inches, all other things being equal. You are right about finding 3" model 19/66 guns. Most of the ones I've owned started life as a 4-inch. In addition I treasure an old model 13/3-inch that was part of an FBI over-run. These are all fine belt guns, but not so great in a pocket - unless it's an overcoat pocket.
I have found the 3-inch barrel on a K-frame to be an excellent compromise between portability and concealment vs. effective markmanship - and the latter is far more important then the latest trick bullet. On the other hand the small-frame snubbies are ideal when, for what ever reason, something bigger won't do.
Buy it immediately, then shoot it with tons of 38's, up to +P+. Limit the number of 357's, especially the 125 grain loads. You'll find out it is a 2&1/2" target revolver. It's quite well balanced and quick. It CAN be shot effectively at 100 yards, if your eyes are up to it, and your technique is good. If you want to carry it, don't use rubber grips, as they "grab" covering garments. They also contribute to inconsistency of grip, which open up groups. If it comes with factory "Magna" grips try a Tyler T-grip if you cant spring for a set of Herret's.
Yeah, 3" fixed sight 357's are better in some ways, but you can't adjust the sights for more than one load. I've a M19 2&1/2 that has become part of me. 33 years later she needs some tightening. Maybe take it to Terry Tussey next time I hit Carson City.
Yeah, 3" fixed sight 357's are better in some ways, but you can't adjust the sights for more than one load. I've a M19 2&1/2 that has become part of me. 33 years later she needs some tightening. Maybe take it to Terry Tussey next time I hit Carson City.
Zach,
Here's a closeup pic of my 2.5" 19-3. As you can see my gun also has a slight bevel in the same place. Nothing to worry about.
Grab it at $299. I gave $350 for mine. It came with the correct box and tools. It's a great shooting snubby and I'll never part with it.
Randy
Smith didn't make a 2.5 inch barrel w/square butt, but there was a time when Bill Jordan advocated a four inch barrel with round butt. You couldn't get it from Smith like that, but if you had two m-19's, one with four inch (sq. butt) and one with 2.5 inch (rd butt), you could ship them to the factory and have the barrels swapped.
I did that. But the barrels didn't line up with the frame and so I sent them back.
Sounds like you may have gotten just such a conversion.
I did that. But the barrels didn't line up with the frame and so I sent them back.
Sounds like you may have gotten just such a conversion.
P&R, bit up in the thread Zach notes he was mistaken and it was a round butt after all.
btw S/W did make some round butt 4" 19's. They are pretty rare and sought after though. If you would like one and can't come across a factory model several smiths will convert SB to RB and re-stamp serial number if needed for a semi-reasonable fee.
btw S/W did make some round butt 4" 19's. They are pretty rare and sought after though. If you would like one and can't come across a factory model several smiths will convert SB to RB and re-stamp serial number if needed for a semi-reasonable fee.
Nice piece. And I'm looking for just such a critter. Only I want a model 66. If anybody has one for sale in central California.............
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