I Need Work Related Help!

[Mot45acp]

I work in various refineries and chemical complexes. I recently got approached by a big name chemical company to solve their problem due to my interest in firearms.

The Company has a flare stack that wont ignite. Their remote pilot and ignition systems are out, with no possible fix until mid 2008. I cant say what gases go to the flare, but, it is a mix of some that are lighter than air, and some that are heavier than air. The only way to see said gases is with a thermal camera.

The flare is approximately 150' tall and 925' horizontal from the place they would like to ignite it from.

A tracer round is out due to PC headlines such as "Company X kills local fisherman in bayou behind plant"

The main idea being kicked around now is the 37mm (civy version of M79)flare gun.

I need the mass of a 37mm flare projectile. I also need the speed (fps). These are to be submitted to the engineer who will calculate the angle to be fired.
Then the package will be submitted to plant management.

Other ideas are welcome. I cannot stress the emphases on safety. What might be safe to you and I must look good enough on paper to submit to non gunny upper management.

Two other ideas being kicked around are launching a model rocket through the plume, and a sacrificial RC aircraft with a flare.

Another kicker. There is a potential that upon approval, Company X would purchase said flare gun and I get to keep it With the stipulation that should they need it again, I provide the service (for a fee of course).

I would like to submit my presentation by this Friday.

Thanks
Mot

 

[Thegungal]

It sounds fun but are you telling me that engineers at a chemical company cant figure out how to mount or repair a fixed ignition system?

 

[MisterPX]

You can't use a 12G flare form Walmart or Bass Pro?

 

[Mot45acp]

They would have to shut a multi million dollar a day facility down. It takes about a week to accomplish this and is not cost effective. The shutdown is scheduled for May 2008.

 

[pax]

Flare gun sounds cool, but I bet sacrificial RC plane ends up being more practical.

pax

 

[Regolith]

Personally, I think the RC plane is the best way to go, but probably not the cheapest.

I don't know the range of of a flare, but 300 yards seems a bit of a long shot for a standard flare launcher. Then again the heavy duty ones are designed to be shot high enough to be seen from long distances, so perhaps its not too much of a stretch.

Definately do a Google search. You'd be surprised at how much information you can scrounge up.

 

[Regolith]

You can't use a 12G flare form Walmart or Bass Pro?

I don't think a 12 gauge flare would have the range necessary.


Also, I just found a website (via Google ) that is devoted exclusively to 37mm flare launchers (some of them even have them mounted on AR-15's! ). I'll be they'd have the information you need.

http://www.37mm.com/

 

[Mot45acp]

12 ga doesnt have the range. They already have one for other flares. The concern is from a safe distance. The main product going to this is highly volitle. You probably wouldnt need a flare if using a gas engine.The concern with the RC aircraft is winds.

 

[prism]

how often will it need to be ignited? is it likely to ignite "easily"?

could someone stand very near the bottom of the stack and do it (whatever it is)?



{edit} could a tethered ballon be used? dangle a 30-minute road flare from a balloon and let it lift the flare up there. to play the wind angles, it could be tethered to a vehicle or cart.{/edit}

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

If you're shooting up 150' from 925' away, you're looking at almost a 300 meter shot. I don't know how big the top of your flare stack is, but that's a pretty long shot with a 40mm. I can't imagine a 37mm being much better.

I'm not sure you could find a parachute flare that would go that far before popping.

Not sure on the weight, but the velocity is slow. It's on the order of 250 fps.

 

[alucard0822]

You can't use a 12G flare form Walmart or Bass Pro?

+

There is a potential that upon approval, Company X would purchase said flare gun and I get to keep it

=12 ga flares and a nice benelli

although I think im with PAX, as a RC plane/heli while requiring a rediculous ammount of skill and coordination to operate, would probably work better, plus there is such a thing as an aerial drop module available, where the RC vehicle would not have to be "sacrificial", just in case it doesn't work on the first attempt. If a worker could attatch a small pulley to the far side of the stack (before it's lit) couldnt you just tie a cord around a road flare, run the cord throught the pulley on the stack, and back to you, pull on the cord, and the flare would head twards the stack to light it.

 

[Mot45acp]

You cannot go closer than 900' period whether lit or not while the plant is running. As per safety protocol. The main product is Ethylene. It ignites very easily. Any RC craft is guaranteed to be sacrificial.

 

[GigaBuist]

Flaming arrows? Trebuchet loaded with a flaming ball of tar?

 

[spartan55]

A walmart fire starter, and a very long pole

 

[Regolith]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think an Estes Rocket would work extremely well for this.

You can get them for about $20 at any hobby store, and that includes the rocket, motors, rocket launcher, etc (although any half decent engineer could rig up a decent rocket launcher for those things with spare parts). They have all the range you'd need (especially the ones that can run the C and D rockets). 300 yards would be easy for one of them, and if you figure your angles and trajectories right, you could get the secondary explosion (designed to deploy the parachute) to go off right in the middle of the cloud.

 

[Big_R]

I don't know the layout or topography, but is there any way they would be willing to pay for a helicopter ride? Could you fire a tracer from the helicopter into the ground/safe backstop.

Ryan

 

[Geronimo45]

Tannerite?

 

[Cacique500]

Why not run 1000 feet of wire and ignite it electrically? A simple spark should do it if you're working with volatiles like Ethylene...

Does the winning idea get a valuable prize??

 

[taliv]

my vote is an RC helicopter, instead of the plane.
it can still be done for under $1000, but you can also buy remote cameras to mount on it so you can see where you're going, and you can haul a decent payload with them too. so you could take it exactly where you wanted to go.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Estes rockets are too light, too hard to aim, unpredictable in wind, and once you put anything that resembles an explosive or incindiary payload on it, the ATF starts getting pretty interested.

Do you really want a still lit flare landing in the woods behind the plant?

 

[yesit'sloaded]

An R/c vehicle is looking real good right now. I'm not sure about range, but will a crossbow reach out that far? All you need is a spark so a flint tip on bolt might do the trick.

 

[skinewmexico]

I had a buddy who tried to light 30' tall test flares on drilling rigs with a 12 gauge flare gun, from about 150' away. He said it took a huge number of flares before they got one to light the flare. For economic reasons, he stopped that. And if you'r shooting a big flare close to a bayou, you'd better let the Coast Guard know first. You're probably close enough to navigable waters to make playing with flares illegal.

 

[JLStorm]

I couldnt imagine anything with more precision than an RC helicopter. It is safe, effective, and generally under $1000.00 so its not to costly to be used one time only. The important part would be to get someone who is an excellent operator, you could start to get ideas by looking here http://www.ircha.org/ I dont know much about RC devices, but I happened to be in a hobby store this weekend and saw some of these helicopters, they are definitely agile machines.

 

[Finch]

Does anybody on here wish that they had a job where at random they are asked to research ways to light stuff on fire at a distance? I sure do....stupid TSA....

 

[Dave A]

The armed forces, or at least the Navy, used to have small aluminum rockets that mated to the typical flare gun. They had the capability of reaching much higher altitudes than the typical flare gun, which is useful for long range signaling. Among the available "warheads" was a magnesium illumination parachute supported flare. The advantage of such a device would be a more predictable flight path, use of a "gun tube" would help, and very low kinetic energy of the spent rocket body. The big challenge would timing the ignition of the magnesium and retarding it long enough in the gas cloud to insure a nice whoomp! when it does cook off. Consulting with the manufacturers of such devices might produce custom made solutions to the problem.