cdb1
Member
Just a couple towns over a 699 pound black bear was shot. Maine record. I would want to shoot him with enough gun if the opportunity arose.
I wouldn’t feel undergunned on a black bear that size with a .280 or a 7x57.
Just a couple towns over a 699 pound black bear was shot. Maine record. I would want to shoot him with enough gun if the opportunity arose.
Anything less than .30 cal ain't enough for something bigger than Bambi, cuz 'Murica!I wouldn’t feel undergunned on a black bear that size with a .280 or a 7x57.
Anything less than .30 cal ain't enough for something bigger that Bambi, cuz 'Murica!
Killing elephants with 7x57 FMJ is like killing bear with a 22. There are numerous cases of it happening, but it's because it's what they had.
I read about that when I was a kid. Just because you can dig a basement with a sand bucket and shovel doesn't mean you are using the proper tool.Karamojo Bell used a .275 Rigby by choice. He was recoil sensitive and hated the recoil of the traditional British big bore rifles. He spent much time and effort figuring out where the brain of an elephant was located within the skull then spent more time figuring out how to hit it from any angle using a .256 Manlicher using 160 Gr solids and a .275 Rigby using 173 Gr cupronickel solids. He figured out frontal, side and rear brain shots using these two deep penetrating rounds with solid bullets. He also used a .400 NE when he did follow up work in thick brush.
He claimed something over 1100 elephants using these small bore rifles. Fast forward 40 to 50 years and African cropping rangers were also killing elephants by the thousands using .308 rifles and FMJ military ball ammo with frontal and side brain shots. Kevin Thomas killed over 4,000 as did Richard Harland of the Rhodesian Parks service. They used a variety of rifles but many of their elephants were killed with FN FAL rifles usung using ball ammo.
The trick is using a solid bullet in a caliber with just enough penetration and knowing where the brain is and how to hit it from any angle. A side brain shot on an elephant does not take all that much penetration to get it done. The problem comes if your attempted brain shot wasn’t perfect.
The 7 Mauser is a mid-length cartridge, the M77 will be a long action. Very hard combination to beat though. Really nothing it will do the 7-08 won't, and unless you're reloading your own, the 7-08 may surpass the anemic factory 7x57 loads.
I read about that when I was a kid. Just because you can dig a basement with a sand bucket and shovel doesn't mean you are using the proper tool.
I'm not trying to cut down the 7x57 in any way. I think it's an often overlooked cartridge because saami decided to neuter it just like all the other European cartridges of that era.
Elephants in Africa.
Didn't Mojo Bell poach/kill dozens of them (hit in the temple) with a typical European 7x57 rifle in the early 20th Century?
My understanding is one of the main reasons Bell used a 7x57 over other cartridges was that solid cartridges for it were readily available and they were about the only bullets he could find that gave the penetration needed to reach an elephants brain. So I’d say mgmorden is correct.
Or just gets hung up on bone. If you read what Bell wrote, he complained of "unexplained misses" - of course given the size of an elephant it's unlikely he missed it entirely. They could be better termed failures of terminal performance.The problem comes if your attempted brain shot wasn’t perfect.
And doesn't work consistently no matter how often it's tried.In other words don’t try small bore elephant hunting until you have a bit of knowledge and experience with the brain shot. I’m here to tell you it’s way harder than it looks.
Or just gets hung up on bone. If you read what Bell wrote, he complained of "unexplained misses" - of course given the size of an elephant it's unlikely he missed it entirely. They could be better termed failures of terminal performance.
The situation got better later on when he switched to a bigger gun.
A reasonable minimum for a client rifle on elephant is .375 H&H. A reasonable minimum for a game control rifle is .404J.
And doesn't work consistently no matter how often it's tried.
I guess I’m not understanding what you are saying as his WR was chambered in .275 Rigby? And he killed hundreds of elephants with itAnd yet Bell continued to have problems until he switched to his Westley Richards. So it clearly didn't work so well for him.
I wouldn’t feel undergunned on a black bear that size with a .280 or a 7x57.