I refuse to own a magnum rifle round that has a belt...

[Macchina]

For how much I really want to love the 7mm Remington Magnum, I just can't get past the fact that the cartridge has a belt. My first rifle was a 300 Winchester Magnum and I reloaded for it. It was the first round I ever reloaded for, but that belt really started to bother me and I sold the gun (it was too much gun for me at the time as well).

Now I love the 7mm bullets but can't seem to bring myself to buy a 7mm Rem Mag. The 7mm WSM is pretty much dead and the 280 Remington doesn't offer me much over my current 7mm-08.

Does anyone else really hate the belt on traditional magnum rifle rounds? Do you see any advantages of having a rim?

Nosler did just release the 280 Nosler (A super fast 7mm magnum) without the belt... I would be interested if it ever made it to sub-$1k rifles.

 

[hatt]

7mm RUM?

 

[ECVMatt]

I have to admit that I am right there with you. I kind of want a 7MM and have been looking at some of the choices. I really don't like belts, but also don't like the super fat cartridges based off the .404 Jeffery or the UM series. I think I am going to end up being happiest with the lowly .280 Remington which will do everything I need done, albeit in much less glamorous guise. If I decide to go totally nuts, I would "Improve" the .280 which would get me almost to the 7MM Mag with smoother feeding and an extra round in the magazine.

Keep us updated on your progress,

Matt

This is what I am talking about, just about perfect for me:

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/280-ackley-improved

 

[tulsamal]

Rim?

I think you meant belt.

 

[rbernie]

Rim?

I think you meant belt.

Must have. I like rims on magnum cartridges. I don't much care for belts, one way or t'other.

 

[Macchina]

Good call... This is embarassing.

 

[Robert]

I've had no issues with my 375H&H. What is it about the belt that is so irksome?

 

[highlander 5]

I'm not a fan of magnum rifle cartridges, my experience is that they burn a lot of powder to gain a modest velocity increase as compared to non belted cartridges. The only cartridges that need a belt are the 300 and 375 H&H as they have almost no shoulder.

 

[White Walker]

I was informed years ago that the 7mm Remington Magnum is actually the same cartridge as the old 7mm Newton but it has the belt. Maybe Remington "improved" it or didn't want the Newton name associated with their rifles or it was about Patent infringements?

 

[eldon519]

I'm also curious what you find so irksome about reloading for belted magnums? Is it something you could get around by changing your process such as just neck-sizing? 7mm Rem Mag is probably going to be the most widely supported 7mm in both terms of rifles, brass, and factory ammo for the foreseeable future. I personally would need a decent incentive to ignore that due to the belt, especially if it otherwise does what you want.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Nosler did just release the 280 Nosler (A super fast 7mm magnum) without the belt... I would be interested if it ever made it to sub-$1k rifles.

Seems like it has the same performance as the 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum.

I don't see it becoming as popular as the 7mm Magnum though.

280 AI would be a good compromise though.

 

[claiborne]

280 ai

The 280 AI might be just the ticket for you.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Does anyone else really hate the belt on traditional magnum rifle rounds?

No. Don't love them, either. It's just a feature, and it really makes no difference, other than they are less prone to pushing through buttstock shell holders and falling out than rimless rounds.

Honestly, who cares? You should buy based on the performance of the round and it's availability in the rifle you're after, not giving a second thought to an inconsequential feature of the cartridge case. It's a really silly thing to get hung up on, even moreso than minute differences in ballistics from one round to the next, or the short action vs. long action nonsense.

Do you see any advantages of having a rim?

The original belted magnum was the .375 H&H, because it lacked enough shoulder for proper headspacing. Many of the magnums developed in the second half of the 20th were based on it, and so they have a belt.

 

[ironworkerwill]

The only place I can see real performance, without being a short mag, is the 7mmRUM. The up side would be powder availability. I almost always see 50bmg and US 869.

 

[ironworkerwill]

I almost forgot....284 WINCHESTER! Its a cute little power-plant. Now lets find brass

 

[MachIVshooter]

The only place I can see real performance, without being a short mag, is the 7mmRUM

Interestingly, unless you go to a 28"+ barrel, the 7mm RUM offers no advantage over the 7mm STW burning 15-20 grains less powder. Seemed a good idea, but it's just too far overbore.

 

[ironworkerwill]

No doubt the Westerner is a go getter but it has a belt.

 

[ugaarguy]

The 7mm WSM is pretty much dead and the 280 Remington doesn't offer me much over my current 7mm-08.

If you hand load does it matter that much? 300 WSM is alive and doing pretty well. You can neck down, fire form, and then neck turn 300 WSM brass to make 7mm WSM brass. I'm pretty sure 7mm bullets will be around as long there are firearms, and .300 WSM seems to be successful that brass should be around for the foreseeable future. That's just an idea.

Or there's .270 WSM if you can live .277" bullets rather than .284" bullets.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I also have an existential dislike of belts (except on my .458 Win Mag). Check out the RUMs and some of the wildcats.

.280 or .280 AI is an excellent choice.

Mike

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I've had no issues with my 375H&H. What is it about the belt that is so irksome?

Headspacing on more than one location is unneeded and bad for accuracy and brass life. A belt is needed on the H&H because the shoulder is so short and has a shoulder angle <15 deg. It is a vestigial organ on a lot of other belted magnums.

Mike

 

[1948CJ2A]

I've never had accuracy issues related to head-spacing off the belt of a belted-magnum cartridge.

Moreover, I've never had any issues with the belt on belted magnum cartridges and I own quite a few.

Seems like this gets brought up every now and then and the proponents from both camps show up and argue. <Yawn>

 

[stoky]

The belt is an anachronism, IMO. If cartridges are head spaced from the shoulder and always fired in the same rifle, it's usually not a problem. I have a Ruger #1 in 7mm Rem Mag, and some brass that I got, that had been fired in a Remington 700, wouldn't even chamber (after full length sizing) without collet sizing. You'll get longer brass life if you collet size in any event, but it's a PIA (separate additional step) and can't be done in a progressive loader.
Nostalgia not withstanding, there's no reason for a belt in modern cartridges.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Headspacing on more than one location is unneeded and bad for accuracy and brass life.

How many matches were won and records set with 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag?

If you neck size, those things matter not. Moreover, if you don't neck size, ANY bottleneck cartridge basically headspaces off the extractor, undersize case lying on the bottom of the chamber. .22 Hornet, .308, 7mm RM-doesn't matter. None of them are a great fit with new or FL sized brass.

But while you're at it, please tell us more about how that's such a problem that people were dissuaded from all the rimmed and belted bottleneck rounds...........

 

[WardenWolf]

What about 7mm-08? That's a reasonably popular cartridge with good availability. Light recoil, too, as the parent cartridge is .308 Winchester.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I'm totally indifferent to the question. I do have, and reload for, a single belted round, the .338 Winchester magnum. It's a round that's "magnum" in name only in my opinion, but tbe magnum craze was in full cry when it was introduced, so there ya go. Nonetheless, I've been pushing 225 grain bullets to 2850 -2900 fps (Oehler 35P) and have gotten eight firings out of brass. Not that they gave any signs of overstress, but I figured it was time at that point. To me, there's nothing to particularly dislike about a belt, and I don't see an advantage either.

The .284 Winnie might be hard to find brass for, but if you go to the 6.5/284 you'll find that Lapua makes it. The 6.5 bullets will have a superior S/D and usually better B/C's too. The .280 AI can tread right on the heels of the vaunted 7mm Remington magnum, and will kill 'em just as dead, what more do you want? Or, radical thought that it is, go get a .30-06.

900F