Why not the .284 Winchester?

[Newtosavage]

Since the 7mm-08 thread got closed due to it drifting into a discussion about the .284 and other closely related 7mm's, I thought I'd start a new one specifically for the often-overlooked .284.

I admit, this is not a cartridge I was familiar with until recently. I've owned three other 7mm calibers now, the venerable 7x57, a .280 Remington and now my two 7mm-08's. I have really loved all of them. I miss my .280 so I was poking around for options of converting one of my 7mm-08's and "discovered" the short-action equivalent of the .280 Remington has actually existed for decades. Then it was wildcatted to what we know now as the 6.5 Norma or 6.5-284. Funny enough, there is almost no brass available today in the original .284 Winchester! That's just crazy to me, but it is what it is.

So as good as the 7mm-08 is (and IMO it's the best all-around deer cartridge ever developed and one of the best all-around overall hunting cartridges a person can ask for), what isn't there to like about a cartridge that fits into a short action and gives you another 150-200 fps?

Any .284 fans out there? Would love to hear from you since I'm seriously considering having my Tikka 7mm-08 rechambered to .284.

 

[Nature Boy]

The .284 has a solid following in the competitive high power / long range rifle community.

I believe it currently holds the 1,000 yard group size record (I'm looking for that info)

I wanted to make my next project built around my FN SPR action chambered in .284.

What I've learned is it takes a long action to take advantage of the longer/better bullets (180g Berger Hybrids). Also, Norma is the only place to find straight .284 brass. You can buy 6.5-.284 lapua and neck it up as an alternative.

 

[Newtosavage]

Re: records held with the .284 Win, I found this to be an interesting read. Might be "new news" for those familiar only with the 6.5-284

https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntec...e-284-winchester-part-2-/detail.htm?lid=16096

 

[MrBorland]

What I've learned is it takes a long action to take advantage of the longer/better bullets

That's been my issue/concern. The extra capacity over the 7mm-08 ought to allow one to shoot heavier bullets, but the SA makes that troublesome, so, to me, it's like designing a square peg to fit in a round hole.

One could go to an intermediate or even standard action, but in the latter (more common) case, you might as well go .280 Remington and get even a wee bit more case capacity (which, presumably is why one was interested in the 284W over the 7mm-08 in the first place). If you wanted a custom build on a custom action tailored to .284W, you could build on a Borden intermediate-length Ridgeline action. It'd be a pricey, but very nice & unique build (and if you didn't like it in .284W, you could rebarrel to your 7x57 )

 

[Newtosavage]

I agree that if you're carrying a long action, you may as well carry the .280 or (nowdays) the more popular .280 AI.

I think a good place for the .284 is in "longer" short action rifles like the Tikka, or even the Savage which allows up to 3.00" in their SA mags.

Is there any possible advantage to the .284 over the .280 if chambered in a long action? Do long bullets intrude into the .280 case enough to affect the capacity?

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Winchester chambered both the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi auto rifles in 284. You see them come up for sale now and then. Guess it was just another early variant on the 308 case but it never caught on.

 

[Newtosavage]

Winchester chambered both the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi auto rifles in 284. You see them come up for sale now and then. Guess it was just another early variant on the 308 case but it never caught on.

Actually, not a variant of the .308 case at all. I think it was a design ahead of it's time, and chambered in rifles that were on their way out.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Oh, guess I always thought it was kind of like the 270.
I had one of the Model 88's in 308. Got my first deer with it.Nice rifle, wish I hadn't sold it almost 40 years and one ex-wife ago...

Edit: Just did a quick search and there are a few of the 100's in 284 for sale in assorted Cabela's Gun Libraries.

 

[Gtscotty]

Since the 7mm-08 thread got closed due to it drifting into a discussion about the .284 and other closely related 7mm's, I thought I'd start a new one specifically for the often-overlooked .284.

Weird huh, you don't usually see threads with cordial discussion, largely still on topic get shut down for discussing the main subject along with very closely related cartridges. Are we allowed to compare and contrast the .284 with related cartridges in this thread?

I believe it currently holds the 1,000 yard group size record (I'm looking for that info)

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/amazing-2-856-10-shot-group-at-1000-yards/

Is this what you're talking about? If so, the record was shot with a 6.5-284, I believe that the record before it was a 300 WSM.

I agree that if you're carrying a long action, you may as well carry the .280 or (nowdays) the more popular .280 AI.

To me the benefit would be that you could load the longer bullets out further in a properly throated .284 Win than in a longer case like the .280. That could be a benefit in long actions like the Tikka, that can have somewhat restrictive long action magazines. The numbers for the .284 look about perfect for bigger game, I'd be a lot more interested if case availability was better.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

In a short action to give 100-150fos more than a 7-08 why not just Ackley Improve your current 7-08?

 

[mshootnit]

The fact that it has a rebated rim tells you they were designing it to fit short action 88 and 100 rifles.
This is an example of people taking a cartridge that was designed for "X" and wondering why it is not more popular for everything else, where "X" is hunting with a short handy rifle.

 

[MrBorland]

Weird huh, you don't usually see threads with cordial discussion, largely still on topic get shut down for discussing the main subject along with very closely related cartridges. Are we allowed to compare and contrast the .284 with related cartridges in this thread?

I was watching the thread, and it was a good one until it started to drift midway into page 6. My guess is that it got closed because the thread went from being a very informative and on-topic discussion of the 7mm-08 to discussing specific rifles, specific bullets and their performance on game, then finally to discussing family members and their preferences. Yes, it was cordial and very informative, but for someone interested in the 7mm-08 cartridge, the informative part of the thread ran out of gas, and after 8 pages, it was unlikely anything new & useful would be added.

 

[someguy2800]

Its not really a true short action cartridge with a case length .155" longer than a 308. Thus you would have to seat the bullet pretty deep to fit in most standard short action mags. That along with the proprietary body diameter that probably causes issues with some mags probably doomed it to being obsolete. That along with it being pretty much exactly the same ballisticaly as the existing 280. I don't have a 284 but I do have a 6.5x284.

 

[Laphroaig]

It was a good idea, but never moved much from the rifles it was originally chambered for. Now is tough to get brass and almost impossible to find ammo. I'd still consider one in a M88, but nothing else.

why not just Ackley Improve your current 7-08?

Better yet, get a 7mm WSM.

 

[Newtosavage]

In a short action to give 100-150fos more than a 7-08 why not just Ackley Improve your current 7-08?

I don't think that will get you to .284 levels.

 

[Newtosavage]

What's interesting to me is the idea that the original .284 is problematic but the 6.5-284 is great. LOL

 

[someguy2800]

What's interesting to me is the idea that the original .284 is problematic but the 6.5-284 is great. LOL

The 6.5x284 is even more problematic since its max OAL is much longer than the 284 parent, so the 6.5x284 truly is a long action cartridge. Its OAL is only a bit shorter than a 30-06. My 6.5x284 is in a Savage short action converted to a single shot. There is no way my loaded rounds would fit in a 308 magazine and I had to shorten my bolt stop to be able to eject a loaded round.

 

[Nature Boy]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/amazing-2-856-10-shot-group-at-1000-yards/

Is this what you're talking about? If so, the record was shot with a 6.5-284, I believe that the record before it was a 300 WSM.

I might have been confused. It wasn't group size, it was F class

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=.284+world+record&submit=Search

 

[old heeler]

I shot 6.5x284 Norma couple years, then had 284 build long action. Prior years I shot 284 short action and couple 6x284's. Real early years I shot Win 100, 284.

I'm right at 6yrs shooting current 284 and when I had it build also had 280AI in the works. Gunsmith order two barrel from Lilja same contour /twist/length (27") out same run of barrels. My 280AI was 280 with 24" barrel and 284 was 7x57 with 24" barrel.

Norma making brass for 284, Bullet.com has it, or you can neck up 6.5x284 brass.

284, I pretty much shoot 160gr to 168gr hunting bullets. I've shot the Berger 180gr VLD out to 500yds.

I've always like 284 case.

 

[Newtosavage]

284, I pretty much shoot 160gr to 168gr hunting bullets.

Exactly my intent. I can run 140's pretty hot out of my 7mm-08's already. 160 is where they get sluggish. And there are a lot of critters you can chase, at realistic hunting distances, with a 160 grain (or 168) 7mm projectile.

A 7mm 160-grain high BC bonded bullet, running at 2800 fps. MV is in my view the perfect all-around deer and elk caliber, combining great ballistics, terminal performance and recoil management. Guess that's why I like the .280 so much.

 

[horsey300]

@280 vs 284, the Winchester uses 5-10 gr less powder avg to get the same performance. Someone is just a titch more efficient. That equals not just more shots/lb but barrel life comes into play as well if you plan on shooting even it semi frequently.

 

[.308 Norma]

I'd still consider one in a M88, but nothing else.

Me too.

 

[mshootnit]

This chamber in a 100 brings a premium. Especially pre 64. I had one in 308. The rifle itself is OK, feels nice in the hands. If they had made the takedown and assembly more sensical, never had the recall issue, and had a better fire control mechanism I could have really liked them.

 

[Newtosavage]

So where are the die-hard .284 Win fans? I wanna hear from them to justify my interest in reaming my '08. LOL

 

[tark]

284 brass can be converted to 7.5 Swiss, for what little that is worth. The slightly rebated rim seems not to pose any problems.